Smoke Screens?

bbyrd009 · Jun 22, 2019

Enoch111 said:
That is ABSOLUTE AND UNADULTERATED NONSENSE.

hes heard it from everyone at this point g, he can't hear i guess. See he has this Terrible Secret, so terrible that even God could not forgive even though the sins of the whole world have been forgiven, yeh? Because Bible, and literal, and no offense but ppl like you

bbyrd009 · Jun 22, 2019

H. Richard said:
If the reason you think you will go to Heaven is because you try to do good then you have placed your faith in what you do and not in the work of God (Jesus) on the cross. See Galatians.

Works are all anyone will be judged for HR, doesn't matter if you have carved that out of your Bible or not ok. Yes, no homosexuals will inherit the kingdom ok bro? That's what the Bible says, right? Can't possibly be speaking spiritually there, right? So sorry about your luck, ok, but you don't get to alter the Book to suit your particular perversions, ok bro? Gonna stop now, or do i need to phish you and post pictures bro? Up to you, k

justbyfaith · Jun 22, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
Yes, no homosexuals will inherit the kingdom ok bro?

Homosexuals who repent and receive the free gift of the Lord's forgiveness will indeed enter the kingdom. And such were some of you.

bbyrd009 said:
No, God does not want everyone to believe that Jesus did everything, and everything you do is aok, you vapid git. You are a deceived, deluded liar, and you have absolutely no witness on this forum that i am aware of?

Why do you persist? Other than guilty conscience, i mean? You think God will change His mind if you can deceive enough ppl about Scripture or something? Pull your head out just a little, ok?

What is clear is that you, @bbyrd009, have been consistently coming from the perspective of an unbeliever; and that this is clear to anyone who has the Holy Ghost at these forums.

@H. Richard has been preaching the truth.

I may not agree with him on everything; but we are unified in the understanding that salvation is apart from works.

bbyrd009 · Jun 22, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Homosexuals who repent and receive the free gift of the Lord's forgiveness will indeed enter the kingdom. And such were some of you.

What is clear is that you, @bbyrd009, have been consitently coming from the perspective of an unbeliever; and that this is clear to anyone who has the Holy Ghost at these forums.

@H. Richard has been preaching the truth.

I may not agree with him on everything; but we are unified in the understanding that salvation is apart from works.

Then you are invited to address the Scripture, or don't bro, idc
you and HR can get in a Circle and discuss it if you like.
I'm not coming back here

justbyfaith · Jun 22, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
Then you are invited to address the Scripture, or don't bro, idc

I would love to address the scripture you are thinking of if you will make it clear to me what it is.

bbyrd009 · Jun 22, 2019

justbyfaith said:
I would love to address the scripture you are thinking of if you will make it clear to me what it is.

Everyone will come before the judgement seat for their works done while in the body, whether good or evil. HR and you included

Stranger · Jun 22, 2019

bbyrd009 arguing in a thread called 'smokescreen'. classic.

Stranger

justbyfaith · Jun 22, 2019

post #18 of Commentary on Romans.

To @bbyrd009

brakelite · Jun 23, 2019

@bbyrd009 is absolutely correct. We shall be judged according to our works. And that judgement determines our ultimate destiny.
None of the above however is meant to suggest that we are saved or justified by our works.
I can think of several parables teaching this. For example, what happens to the person who fails to feed the hungry, visit the sick, visit the prisons... Etc?

GodsGrace · Jun 23, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
Ah. What do you mean by Saved then?
Imo anyone says that needs Scripture worst of all

If a person KNOWS GOD in a saving way (not just with the mind, but with the heart)
he still needs scripture but not to be "saved".

I've learned a lot from the bible...
but AFTER I was saved, so those passages that teach salvation are not needed for ME, but they do come in handy for witnessing.

Capisci?

GodsGrace · Jun 23, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Homosexuals who repent and receive the free gift of the Lord's forgiveness will indeed enter the kingdom. And such were some of you.

What is clear is that you, @bbyrd009, have been consitently coming from the perspective of an unbeliever; and that this is clear to anyone who has the Holy Ghost at these forums.

@H. Richard has been preaching the truth.

I may not agree with him on everything; but we are unified in the understanding that salvation is apart from works.

Salvation is not by works.
It is a free gift of God.
Ephesians 2:8

BUT everyone on this forum (I think) must be saved --- maybe not everyone.

So, when do we leave the milk and get to some meat.

If works have nothing to do with CONTINUED salvation, WHY does the bible speak about them so much?

If you need scripture, just ask,,,I've got pages of it.

H. Richard · Jun 23, 2019

GodsGrace said:
I'm not going to argue that....it's true.
But different folk understand it in different ways...
we've been through this before.
God also wants us to do our part and help out right here on earth.
And, yes, Paul did write Christian theology after Jesus' death to make some sense of it...but I trust what Jesus said the most.

But they're both right.

What did Jesus say to the Gentiles??? According to my Bible He only came to the lost sheep of Israel. IF -- your religious theology is based on what Jesus said to the Jews who were under the law of Moses then your theology is based on law, not grace.

We are to HELP OUT by telling others of what Jesus did for them on the cross in hopes that they may also put their faith, trust, in what Jesus did on the cross. It certainly isn't proclaiming that we are sinless in the flesh and claiming that we must save ourselves by our works. God's message of grace that JESUS gave to Paul is the message I tell others about but the religious don't want people to know it. They want people under the control of man made religions. Most do not see that Paul had to constantly fight the religious believing Jews who wanted to put the Gentiles under their law of Moses. If that is not what people see in Paul's writing then they are under spiritual blindness.

There is only one message for the whole world today and that is found in Paul's gospel and is not found in religions. When Satan realized what Jesus accomplished on the cross his only recourse was to get people under religions that require the work of man for salvation to be the way to God. By placing their faith in what they do they are rejecting what Jesus has already done on the cross.

If a person believes it is his/her works that save them they are saying Jesus' work on the cross does not save unless that person become self-righteous by their works.

After God sent His Son to die for the sins of the world He wants people to place their faith (trust) in His Son's work on the cross.

justbyfaith · Jun 23, 2019

GodsGrace said:
If works have nothing to do with CONTINUED salvation, WHY does the bible speak about them so much?

Works are the result of a living faith. They do not save us in and of themselves but they are the only true evidence of a real salvation.

Because the Lord has called us to love, not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).

But we do not obtain the love of the Lord by doing some good work; like giving five dollars or even five million dollars to the poor.

Rather, we obtain the love of the Lord by believing on Christ (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).

Then we will give to the poor as the Lord leads us (or whatever other work that He has prepared beforehand for us to walk in) because of that love dwelling in our hearts; and because it is not an esoteric but a practical love.

H. Richard said:
It certainly isn't proclaiming that we are sinless in the flesh and claiming that we must save ourselves by our works.

I certainly do not proclaim that I am sinless in the flesh. I claim that I can be...because the Bible teaches that I can be and that it is a goal to be reached after. However, if anyone is truly perfect, his attitude will be that he truly continues to have room to grow in the area of sanctification. He may indeed be sanctified entirely, but will deny himself and even the work that the Lord has done in his life; because a major aspect of sanctification is humility, and it would not be humility to go around proclaiming, "I have arrived at the state of perfection: look at me." No; those who are truly sanctified to the hilt do not proclaim that they are sanctified. They let their life shine in such a way that others may see their good works and glorify their Father which is in heaven.

Not that they are saved by them. But because they are truly born again of the Holy Spirit, they are prone to doing the will of Jesus' Father which is in heaven (see Matthew 7:21-23).

H. Richard · Jun 23, 2019

brakelite said:
@bbyrd009 is absolutely correct. We shall be judged according to our works. And that judgement determines our ultimate destiny.
None of the above however is meant to suggest that we are saved or justified by our works.
I can think of several parables teaching this. For example, what happens to the person who fails to feed the hungry, visit the sick, visit the prisons... Etc?

So you wish to place the children of God under the law. The children of God have placed their faith in Jesus' work on the cross and have been saved by their faith that overcomes this world. The only judgement that a child of God will have is to get rewards for their work to get people to place their faith in Jesus' work on the cross.

What you have said is totally against Jesus' (God's) work on the cross where He, Jesus, paid for the sins of all mankind on the cross. Anyone who is placed in Christ by the Holy Spirit have already been judged and are under grace. Since the sin debt of those who place their faith in Jesus has been paid by God, the child is sinless before God in spirit but not the flesh.

bbyrd009 · Jun 23, 2019

brakelite said:
@bbyrd009 is absolutely correct. We shall be judged according to our works. And that judgement determines our ultimate destiny.
None of the above however is meant to suggest that we are saved or justified by our works.
I can think of several parables teaching this. For example, what happens to the person who fails to feed the hungry, visit the sick, visit the prisons... Etc?

They both already know that no one is advocating salvation by works, and neither cares i guess. Hey, stranger likes it, what does that tell ya. Best of luck here bro, and maybe we should msg @mjrhealth too huh, he can come back and give everyone another round of "piss on the cross" here with HR

bbyrd009 · Jun 23, 2019

justbyfaith said:
post #18 of Commentary on Romans.

To @bbyrd009

go with that then if you like, and best of luck to you ok

H. Richard · Jun 23, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Works are the result of a living faith. They do not save us in and of themselves but they are the only true evidence of a real salvation.

Because the Lord has called us to love, not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).

But we do not obtain the love of the Lord by doing some good work; like giving five dollars or even five million dollars to the poor.

Rather, we obtain the love of the Lord by believing on Christ (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).

Then we will give to the poor as the Lord leads us (or whatever other work that He has prepared beforehand for us to walk in) because of that love dwelling in our hearts; and because it is not an esoteric but a practical love.

I certainly do not proclaim that I am sinless in the flesh. I claim that I can be...because the Bible teaches that I can be and that it is a goal to be reached after. However, if anyone is truly perfect, his attitude will be that he truly continues to have room to grow in the area of sanctification. He may indeed be sanctified entirely, but will deny himself and even the work that the Lord has done in his heart; because a major aspect of sanctification is humility, and it would not be humility to go around proclaiming, "I have arrived at the state of perfection: look at me." No; those who are truly sanctified to the hilt do not proclaim that they are sanctified. They let their life shine in such a way that others may see their good works and glorify their Father which is in heaven.

Not that they are saved by them. But because they are truly born again of the Holy Spirit, they are prone to doing the will of Jesus' Father which is in heaven (see Matthew 7:21-23).

So we are to love others by our works. Paul showed his love for others, not by trying to satisfying their needs of the flesh, but by preaching the salvation of God for all those that will place their faith in His work. It is a much better work to try and save someone from the "LAKE OF FIRE".

So you believe we are progressively sanctified by our works over time. Then you must also believe in progressive salvation and justification over time. But according to the scripture below the children of God "WERE" (that means in the past) washed, sanctified, justified, by the Holy Spirit; not by the works of man. In simple language that mean it is not the work of man that saves them; it is the work of God. But Satan does not want people to understand this and place their faith in Him.

1 Cor 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

If a person is sanctified by their works then how much is enough

GodsGrace · Jun 23, 2019

H. Richard said:
What did Jesus say to the Gentiles??? According to my Bible He only came to the lost sheep of Israel. IF -- your religious theology is based on what Jesus said to the Jews who were under the law of Moses then your theology is based on law, not grace.

Well, then, we have to start thinking about how many gods there are.
If there's one message for the Jews, one for the gentiles, then there are two gods.
Then there are all the gods of Hinduism...
Confusious, Buddha, those that believe god is in everything, etc.

We are to HELP OUT by telling others of what Jesus did for them on the cross in hopes that they may also put their faith, trust, in what Jesus did on the cross. It certainly isn't proclaiming that we are sinless in the flesh and claiming that we must save ourselves by our works. God's message of grace that JESUS gave to Paul is the message I tell others about but the religious don't want people to know it. They want people under the control of man made religions. Most do not see that Paul had to constantly fight the religious believing Jews who wanted to put the Gentiles under their law of Moses. If that is not what people see in Paul's writing then they are under spiritual blindness.

But we DO save ourselves by our works.
Paul and Jesus agreed on this.
Jesus told us we must DO things to be saved...we must act on our faith and not ONLY BELIEVE.
Mathew 25 speaks to this.
Mathew 5 speaks to this.
We are to clothe the naked and feed the poor.
Paul told us we must not be swindlers, idolaters, drunkards, covetous, a riviler, because they are immoral persons.
Could you show me an example where they taught something different?
If the bible is not one complete thought that we could follow...
we should look for a new book called PAUL'S WAY TO SALVATION.
Who saved you....Paul or Jesus?
Do you adhere to a man or to God?
And why separate their teachings when they taught the same concepts?

There is only one message for the whole world today and that is found in Paul's gospel and is not found in religions. When Satan realized what Jesus accomplished on the cross his only recourse was to get people under religions that require the work of man for salvation to be the way to God. By placing their faith in what they do they are rejecting what Jesus has already done on the cross.

You're so concerned with religions. Religions are what has kept Christianity together all these years. If all the churches closed down tomorrow, how long do you think Christianity would last? It's having enough problems with Pastors to guide the church.

And didn't Paul write to Timothy to be a good pastor?
And wasn't Paul HIMSELF a pastor and preacher?
What if he had stopped preaching and creating house churches?

If a person believes it is his/her works that save them they are saying Jesus' work on the cross does not save unless that person become self-righteous by their works.

After God sent His Son to die for the sins of the world He wants people to place their faith (trust) in His Son's work on the cross.

NO. This is not what God wants.
God want us to believe IN GOD...IN JESUS.
To place our trust in HIM and for what?
ONLY for salvation? How selfish are you?

God wants us also to do HIS works here on earth.
If we don't do His works, it means we're not even saved.
James 2:20

Peter said the outcome of our faith is the salvation of our souls.
1 Peter 1:9

You don't trust him either?
Only Paul because it suits you somehow?

What does our faith tell us to do?
Love God
Love Yourself
Love your neighbor

Does this love bring you to DO things...or to just have faith in Paul?

Galatians 6:9-10
Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

1 Peter 3:8-13
To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing.

GodsGrace · Jun 23, 2019

H. Richard said:
So we are to love others by our works. Paul showed his love for others, not by trying to satisfying their needs of the flesh, but by preaching the salvation of God for all those that will place their faith in His work. It is a much better work to try and save someone from the "LAKE OF FIRE".

So you believe we are progressively sanctified by our works over time. Then you must also believe in progressive salvation and justification over time. But according to the scripture below the children of God "WERE" (that means in the past) washed, sanctified, justified, by the Holy Spirit; not by the works of man. In simple language that mean it is not the work of man that saves them; it is the work of God. But Satan does not want people to understand this and place their faith in Him.

1 Cor 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

If a person is sanctified by their works then how much is enough

Yes,,, you like the WERE verses (of which there is only the one you posted)
How about all the verses about sanctification that are in the future and are on-going?

So you want to be like
James 2:15-16
15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

James says it's of NO USE to have faith with no works.
James 2:14

James says faith without works is DEAD.
James 2:17

THIS teaching of yours, CAN bring a person to lose their salvation if they listen to what you teach.
It's heretical...it was never taught in the church that BELIEF ALONE saves.
OR
believing in any man.....Paul
Only in JESUS.

GodsGrace · Jun 23, 2019

H. Richard said:
So you wish to place the children of God under the law. The children of God have placed their faith in Jesus' work on the cross and have been saved by their faith that overcomes this world. The only judgement that a child of God will have is to get rewards for their work to get people to place their faith in Jesus' work on the cross.

What you have said is totally against Jesus' (God's) work on the cross where He, Jesus, paid for the sins of all mankind on the cross. Anyone who is placed in Christ by the Holy Spirit have already been judged and are under grace. Since the sin debt of those who place their faith in Jesus has been paid by God, the child is sinless before God in spirit but not the flesh.

If we've already been judged...
could you please explain
John 5:28-29

Smoke Screens?

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