Mature Spiritual Christians No Longer Need the Written Word?

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Episkopos

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The bible in the hands of a mature spiritual Christian is a source of knowledge and inspiration.

But as this thread has shown, the bible in the hands of immature and nonspiritual people is a disaster. Especially when these people are belligerent, self-willed, disrespectful and unteachable.

This is what happens when people try interpreting the written word with their carnal minds.
 
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prism

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Nonetheless, if you will hear the whole counsel of the word and receive it, that one passage does not make these others void:

John 14:12
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

1 Corinthians 3:10
"According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it."

...Thus, you have need to examine your own self with regard to all truth from God being in full agreement, and how you take up one passage in defense of a position that is not in accord with every other passage, but pits one against the other other as if God were against Himself. He is not, nor are the scriptures to be used in such a way.

Show me just one verse that backs up J.Doe's statement..."We are saved by our love of Christ, ...". , since you think I "take up one passage in defense of a position that is not in accord with every other passage,.".
 

ScottA

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Show me just one verse that backs up J.Doe's statement..."We are saved by our love of Christ, ...". , since you think I "take up one passage in defense of a position that is not in accord with every other passage,.".
I wasn't addressing that point, but rather that the scriptures are not to be used as a tit-for-tat argument when there are other passages that would not draw the conclusion that you have. Scripture must reconcile with itself, as there is no contradiction with God.

But if Jane Doe has paraphrased the first commandment combined with a need for Christ...she has not spoken against, but for the salvation message.
 
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prism

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I wasn't addressing that point, but rather that the scriptures are not to be used as a tit-for-tat argument when there are other passages that would not draw the conclusion that you have. Scripture must reconcile with itself, as there is no contradiction with God.

But if Jane Doe has paraphrased the first commandment combined with a need for Christ...she has not spoken against, but for the salvation message.
This was her original statement in post #173..."We aren't saved by our ability to pass a theology test. We are saved by our love of Christ, not our detailed knowledge of Him."

All I have been doing is addressing that crucial point and all I have only gotten back smoke and mirrors.
Our 'love' is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, it doesn't save us. We love because we are saved. We are preaching another Gospel if we say 'our love saves us'.
 

ScottA

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The bible in the hands of a mature spiritual Christian is a source of knowledge and inspiration.

But as this thread has shown, the bible in the hands of immature and nonspiritual people is a disaster. Especially when these people are belligerent, self-willed, disrespectful and unteachable.

This is what happens when people try interpreting the written word with their carnal minds.
Brutal...but right on. :)
 

ScottA

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This was her original statement in post #173..."We aren't saved by our ability to pass a theology test. We are saved by our love of Christ, not our detailed knowledge of Him."

All I have been doing is addressing that crucial point and all I have only gotten back smoke and mirrors.
Our 'love' is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, it doesn't save us. We love because we are saved. We are preaching another Gospel if we say 'our love saves us'.
You may win here on a technical level regarding the semantics of what is written, but loose by the spirit of what is written.

There is perhaps a better way to point out that love for Christ is technically not what saves us. But putting scripture against scripture is not the way.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Brutal...but right on. :)
Prims is redicoulously distorting my position.
My actual position a person my accept Christ as their Savior in order to be saved. God does all the lifting, was the sacrifice on the Cross, and offers the gift of His salvation to all. We just need to accept Him.
 

ScottA

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Prims is redicoulously distorting my position.
My actual position a person my accept Christ as their Savior in order to be saved. God does all the lifting, was the sacrifice on the Cross, and offers the gift of His salvation to all. We just need to accept Him.
There is nothing wrong with your position. You have stated it quite well enough. But some will go beyond what is in the heart to also examine every jot and tittle. In which case the argument is futile, for having looked past the heart, they have looked past God also.
 

prism

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You may win here on a technical level regarding the semantics of what is written, but loose by the spirit of what is written.

There is perhaps a better way to point out that love for Christ is technically not what saves us. But putting scripture against scripture is not the way.
Thanks for your unsubstantiated opinion.
While we are here, what Scripture did I put against other Scripture?
 

amadeus

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Show me just one verse that backs up J.Doe's statement..."We are saved by our love of Christ, ...". , since you think I "take up one passage in defense of a position that is not in accord with every other passage,.".

And without love we are...?

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing." I Cor 13:1-3


"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment." Matt 22:37-38


So then if we willfully break this first commandment where is our salvation?

@Jane_Doe22
 
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prism

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And without love we are...?

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing." I Cor 13:1-3


"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment." Matt 22:37-38


So then if we willfully break this first commandment where is our salvation?

@Jane_Doe22
The verses you quoted are referencing and /or addressing those who are already Christian.
Regarding your last sentence, if we wilfully break the 1st Commandment it is an indication that we may not be saved in the first place, and if we are saved we will ask for forgiveness.
Since you quoted my challenge "Show me just one verse that backs up the statement..."We are saved by our love of Christ, ..."...
would you like to try again?
I can produce many verses that point to the fact that we are saved by His perfect work...not ours. But I can't find one that says we are saved by 'our love'.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
(Rom 5:19 KJV)
 

amadeus

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The verses you quoted are referencing and /or addressing those who are already Christian.
Regarding your last sentence, if we wilfully break the 1st Commandment it is an indication that we may not be saved in the first place, and if we are saved we will ask for forgiveness.
Since you quoted my challenge "Show me just one verse that backs up the statement..."We are saved by our love of Christ, ..."...
would you like to try again?
I can produce many verses that point to the fact that we are saved by His perfect work...not ours. But I can't find one that says we are saved by 'our love'.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
(Rom 5:19 KJV)
Produce away if you will but it is you going off on a tangent from your own topic. When you concluded that I was doing that you refused to discuss it with me further. Now you've changed the rules?
 
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prism

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We aren't saved by our ability to pass a theology test. We are saved by our love of Christ, not our detailed knowledge of Him.

I'm a person who's visited and studied MANY different faiths, Christian and non. Amoung those that proclaim Christ, I have rejoiced with those brother and sisters in our Lord. Obiovusly I haven't agreed with them on the details of Christ-- you have Calvinists, Arminisms, modalists, trinitarians, Sebellians, JW, functional-unitarians, etc -- by studying many I've learned many different viewpoints. Some of these viewpoints I PASSIONATELY disagree with and find to be downright despicable. But such a proclaimer is still my bother in Christ-- his ideas don't disqualify that love and devotion to Christ.

Produce away if you will but it is you going off on a tangent from your own topic. When you concluded that I was doing that you refused to discuss it with me further. Now you've changed the rules?

Here is where it started. Jane's put down of 'theology' and my response which ties in nicely with 'Mature Christians not needing the written word?'.
But continue with your 'gotcha' games if you must.
I stopped and refused to discuss with you as you kept dragging the posts onto personal barbs, like you are trying to do now. At least Jane Doe kept it on topic, even if she didn't agree.
 

amadeus

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Here is where it started. Jane's put down of 'theology' and my response which ties in nicely with 'Mature Christians not needing the written word?'.
But continue with your 'gotcha' games if you must.
I stopped and refused to discuss with you as you kept dragging the posts onto personal barbs, like you are trying to do now. At least Jane Doe kept it on topic, even if she didn't agree.
Is that really what I have done? If so I sincerely apologize.
 
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aspen

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Nope, the opposite, I'm defending the Truth of the Word of God, standing for sound doctrines from the corruption of false teachings, heresy, and fables....
The time of 2Timothy 4 is here.
Titus 1:9–2:1, “He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it…But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine.”
2 Timothy 4:3“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear”

Since when does Truth need defending?
 

tzcho2

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Since when does Truth need defending?
Since Satan entered the garden of eden.

Psalm 119:41-42 "Let your steadfast love come to me, O Lord, your salvation according to your promise; then shall I have an answer for him who taunts me, for I trust in your word."


Psalm 94:16 "Who will rise up for me against the wicked? Who will take a stand for me against evildoers?"

2 Corinthians 10:5 "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ."

1 Peter 3:15 "but honor the Messiah as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you."

Jude 1:3 "Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people."

Titus 1:9 He must be devoted to the trustworthy message we teach. Then he can use these accurate teachings to encourage people and correct those who oppose the word.

Philippians 1:16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.


2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.


Ephesians 5:11 "Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."


Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

2 Timothy 2:15 "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn’t need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth."
 
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aspen

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Since Satan entered the garden of eden.

Psalm 119:41-42 "Let your steadfast love come to me, O Lord, your salvation according to your promise; then shall I have an answer for him who taunts me, for I trust in your word."


Psalm 94:16 "Who will rise up for me against the wicked? Who will take a stand for me against evildoers?"

2 Corinthians 10:5 "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ."

1 Peter 3:15 "but honor the Messiah as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you."

Jude 1:3 "Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people."

Titus 1:9 He must be devoted to the trustworthy message we teach. Then he can use these accurate teachings to encourage people and correct those who oppose the word.

Philippians 1:16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.


2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.


Ephesians 5:11 "Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."


Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

2 Timothy 2:15 "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn’t need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth."

Providing reasons for your faith, defending your faith, and exposing evil are not defending truth
 
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tzcho2

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Providing reasons for your faith, defending your faith, and exposing evil are not defending truth
I was going to bet $1000 that you would ignore ALL the other scriptures and pounce on that one. :D
THE point is that the BIBLE has always taught to Defend THE TRUTH.
 
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prism

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Prims is redicoulously distorting my position.
My actual position a person my accept Christ as their Savior in order to be saved. God does all the lifting, was the sacrifice on the Cross, and offers the gift of His salvation to all. We just need to accept Him.
And you insisting I'm a Calvinist, even though I denied it? So now you won't engage me directly, but rather indirectly accuse me of "redicoulously distorting my position" ? That's real 'love', not in accord with Mt 18:15. But hey, who needs those 'legalistic Scriptures' anyways? Just flow with the spirit...right.
 

Jane_Doe22

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And you insisting I'm a Calvinist, even though I denied it? So now you won't engage me directly, but rather indirectly accuse me of "redicoulously distorting my position" ? That's real 'love', not in accord with Mt 18:15. But hey, who needs those 'legalistic Scriptures' anyways? Just flow with the spirit...right.
Prism, I have tried having a reasonable conversation with you, but it's gone no where. Have a nice day.
 
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