An Opinion about rituals "in religions":

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H. Richard

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When a person, or religious organization, keeps inventing sacraments, then it is their keeping of the sacraments they have faith in, not Christ. Otherwise, why keep those invented sacraments?

And when one goes to a confessional and tells a "priest" about their sins, then it is their going to the confessional and doing the confession ritual and penance that they have faith in, not Christ. Otherwise, why not go directly to God, from within the heart, through Christ for the forgiveness of sins as Christ taught?

Christ never taught anything about ritualistic sacraments, or going to confessionals. He taught faith. It is only the flesh, seeking to feel it has earned its spiritual relationship with God that comes up with the formulation "these are the things I do because of faith." Christ's teaching was that faith is not about man "doing." It is faith in what God has, and will, do.

Just so that everyone knows I'm not singling out the Catholics, it would be entirely possible to write exactly what I just wrote, only substituting the ritual and legalism details of any protestant denomination for the mass/ritualistic sacraments/confessional part, and the doctrinal point would be just as valid.

Christ did indeed teach that salvation and relationship with God is based on faith and only faith.

It is the Catholic Church that invented all the nonsense about Mary being a lifelong virgin, and that one prays to her to get healing, favors, and whatever. And it is the Catholic Church, which elects "saints", and says you can pray to them for special favors; isn't it? I don't remember Christ teaching anything about praying to Mary or "saints". And it is the catholic church that teaches that you can't be forgiven for sins without coming to its confessional booth, telling your sins to someone it calls a "priest" and doing whatever penance that "priest" tells them to do; right? That is the Catholic Church, isn't it? Or is the church that does all that stuff some other church and I just got confused for a second? This isn't a stereotype, it is just fact. Is the Catholic Church now teaching that one simply goes to God in personal prayer about sin and is forgiven based on the perfection and efficacy of Christ's work on the cross? If that's what they're teaching these days it would be the first I've heard about it.

If the rituals, ceremonies, legalisms, and taboos the Catholic Church started inventing in the middle of the first millennium are just a natural outgrowth of Christ's teaching (the expression of faith, if you will) then why would not the rituals and ceremonies and taboos and legalisms of any other church be the same? For instance, the day of Pentecost was shortly after Christ's death and resurrection and we are told people were speaking in tongues, etc. So why would it not be valid for Pentecostal churches to say: well, what we do goes all the way back to the days of Christ's ministry, death and resurrection, so when we "speak in tongues" it is simply a natural outgrowth of Christ's ministry and what early Christians did. Therefore, you can't be saved or have a relationship with God unless you join our church and do this "speaking in tongues" thing.

Although most protestant denominations only practice the concept in part, the orthodox (or doctrinal) Christian concept is that all believers in Christ are priests with Jesus Christ as our intermediary with God. Forgiveness for our sins is based on Christ's work on the cross and our faith in Christ and his work. That is why (doctrinally speaking) we can approach God directly in our personal prayers. As for forgiveness of our sins we already have received forgiveness through the Blood of Jesus.

The Catholic Church, AND OTHERS, have taken this concept rooted in grace and turned it into a system called religion whereby humans earn forgiveness from God by going to a particular place (the confessional), "confessing" sins to someone whose business they are not and then performing some more works ("penance") to complete the business of earning God's forgiveness. The concept at the root of it all is that Christ's work on the cross was incomplete or a failure, and so we have to add our works to Christ's work to make them complete.

Nothing could be more out of keeping with the Christian doctrine Paul wrote, which teaches that Christ's work on the cross was complete, perfect and perfectly efficacious.

I will say this, instead of simply changing out a protestant system of works for a catholic system of works a person really should consider Christ's message of faith.

A person can reach the point of exasperation, trying to figure out the un-figurable (which church's or denominational system is the right system to please and impress God). But Christ's message of relationship with God through faith makes all the figuring unnecessary.

I appreciate and agree with the orientation of many posts: the intended grace nature of what the Catholic Church has termed "sacraments" and turned into empty rituals, the spiritual (rather than physical) nature of Christ's church, the idea of all religion as schemes for pleasing God with the energy of the flesh rather than faith, the concept of salvation through faith alone rather than a program of religious works, rituals and observing legalisms, taboos and "sacraments."

I understand that the antiquity of the traditions and rituals the Catholic Church has invented appeal to many, (at least more so than those traditions and rituals invented by the evangelical/fundamentalist protestant churches), but that is their choice. However, these things would come between Jesus and I.

Every church and denomination has "Jesus" and "faith" and "Christ" readily rolling off its collective tongue. But Christ taught that just because one says "Lord, Lord" that doesn't mean that they will have a relationship with God, but only those who do the will of God - and Christ taught that the will of God is his creations responding to him in faith.

I am where I am now because of a volitional choice to respond to Christ's message of faith with faith. And I find that message of faith very comforting indeed: a relationship with, and justification and righteousness before, the God who created my soul based only on my faith in the savior he sent for me (and the guidance of God's own spirit thrown in at no extra charge whatsoever).

All this without having to work, work, work at rituals and taboo observance and magic worked by "saints" and the "virgin Mary" and all the rest of that nonsensical claptrap. Instead "doing" what Christ taught us to do; believe on the one whom God sent and rest and be relieved of our burdens of sin by God's grace.

(Nor any need to search and hunt and figure out and research which church hierarchy's claims to have "truth" or "validity")

I can't get more comfortable than that, and why anyone would choose the works route is beyond me (except I can understand their flesh screaming at them, "ok, so now what do I have to do?")

This is not rocket science. On the one hand you have Christ and Paul clearly teaching faith alone and on the other hand you have the Catholic Church teaching mass attendance, compulsory confession, worshipping Mary, the Lord's table sharing turned into a system of magic, "last rites" for salvation, and on and on. And various other churches teaching a relationship with God based on emotional ecstatic, moral purity of the flesh, ritual observance, etc.

It really doesn't seem like much of a choice to me, or is it anything that requires great academic diligence. I prefer Christ's message of faith.

End

I owe a great deal of thanks to a friend named "Don" (on Dave's Christian forum) for this article. His writings have given me much comfort and direction.
 

Windmillcharge

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When a person, or religious organization, keeps inventing sacraments, then it is their keeping of the sacraments they have faith in, not Christ
What organisations or people keep on inventing sacrements?

I'm curious about your church.
Are the sinday services always in the same formate, do you religously follow the hymn, prayer sandwich?
How often does your minister change the order in which things are done?
How often does the congragtion learn and sing new songs/use different bible versions?

Or are these traditions sacred, untouchable sacremental rites?
 
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H. Richard

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What organisations or people keep on inventing sacrements?

I'm curious about your church.
Are the sinday services always in the same formate, do you religously follow the hymn, prayer sandwich?
How often does your minister change the order in which things are done?
How often does the congragtion learn and sing new songs/use different bible versions?

Or are these traditions sacred, untouchable sacremental rites?

This is my answer.

Church = The Church is a "Spiritual Church" (spiritual house 1 Peter 2:4 5) (Mark 14:58) (Acts 17:23 25) (2 Cor. 5:1) (Heb 9:11 and 24) made up of Children of God. Since it consists of 'born again People the true Church is as Jesus described a born again person in John 3:8.

John 3:8 NKJV
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Therefore, the Church is a spiritual entity, made by the will of God and built without human hands of flesh, and the head of the Church is Jesus Christ who gave his life for it. I, personally feel that no man is to be considered as head of the Church. The Church's visibility in the world is shown through Christians that profess that faith in Jesus‘ work on the cross has saved them, individually and as groups. It is not a religious organization, or building, or certain place. Read LUKE, 17:20 "The Kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, here it is, or there it is, because the kingdom of God "is" within you.
 
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Willie T

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Do you bow your head... close your eyes, to pray? You are perpetuating an "invented" ritual that Jesus never demonstrated for us if you feel it is necessary to only pray on this manner.
 
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Helen

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This is my answer.

Church = The Church is a "Spiritual Church" (spiritual house 1 Peter 2:4 5) (Mark 14:58) (Acts 17:23 25) (2 Cor. 5:1) (Heb 9:11 and 24) made up of Children of God. Since it consists of 'born again People the true Church is as Jesus described a born again person in John 3:8.

John 3:8 NKJV
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Therefore, the Church is a spiritual entity, made by the will of God and built without human hands of flesh, and the head of the Church is Jesus Christ who gave his life for it. I, personally feel that no man is to be considered as head of the Church. The Church's visibility in the world is shown through Christians that profess that faith in Jesus‘ work on the cross has saved them, individually and as groups. It is not a religious organization, or building, or certain place. Read LUKE, 17:20 "The Kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, here it is, or there it is, because the kingdom of God "is" within you.


I can say a big amen to that!! Very true :)
 

Helen

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Do you bow your head... close your eyes, to pray? You are perpetuating an "invented" ritual that Jesus never demonstrated for us.

Interesting.
But I do not agree that it is something that 'should not ' be done.

Closed eyes is to shut out this world. I sometimes do, and sometimes dont. Many times I pray walking around the house , closed eyes would be foolish.

Adams "eyes were opened"...He once saw into the Spirit clearly ...at his fall, his eyes were opened to this realm.

Bowing of the head is respect...always has been from day one.

Now if your question was - "Do you ALWAYS bow your head and close your eyes.." there is the difference.

Do you pray silently, or aloud?

As long as the prayer is prayed , I don't believe God cares. :D
It says many times ...'Jesus looked up' ...so do you always pray looking up?


A Spirit led person will do whatever directed to do, at the given time. :)

( hope the knee is pain FREE now? )
 

Willie T

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Interesting.
But I do not agree that it is something that 'should not ' be done.

Closed eyes is to shut out this world. I sometimes do, and sometimes dont. Many times I pray walking around the house , closed eyes would be foolish.

Adams "eyes were opened"...He once saw into the Spirit clearly ...at his fall, his eyes were opened to this realm.

Bowing of the head is respect...always has been from day one.

Now if your question was - "Do you ALWAYS bow your head and close your eyes.." there is the difference.

Do you pray silently, or aloud?

As long as the prayer is prayed , I don't believe God cares. :D
It says many times ...'Jesus looked up' ...so do you always pray looking up?


A Spirit led person will do whatever directed to do, at the given time. :)

( hope the knee is pain FREE now? )
Exactly right.
 
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Enoch111

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It is the Catholic Church that invented all the nonsense...
True. But you are not going to make a dent in their teachings, and neither is anyone else. When God opens the eyes of Catholics to the errors of their church, then they simply depart from Babylon.
 

Enoch111

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Do you bow your head... close your eyes, to pray? You are perpetuating an "invented" ritual that Jesus never demonstrated for us if you feel it is necessary to only pray on this manner.
That is not ritual, but if you think it is feel free to call it that.
 

justbyfaith

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If your focus is on Christ and you are not being religious about, the fact that you are involved in a ritual is not going to condemn you.

If you think that there is something in the ritual that gets you closer to the Lord, then Houston, we have a problem.

Our access to the Father is through Christ and by one Spirit (Ephesians 2:18, Ephesians 3:12)
 

Pearl

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I will say this, instead of simply changing out a protestant system of works for a catholic system of works a person really should consider Christ's message of faith.
Amen. I can't usually bother with reading long posts and I haven't read all you post yet @H. Richard but what I have read so far I totally agree with. I will read the rest later.
 
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farouk

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Hebrews contains a lot of symbolism; it points directly to the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ. What we really need to grasp is the truth and doctrine behind it.
 

Pearl

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I am where I am now because of a volitional choice to respond to Christ's message of faith with faith. And I find that message of faith very comforting indeed: a relationship with, and justification and righteousness before, the God who created my soul based only on my faith in the savior he sent for me (and the guidance of God's own spirit thrown in at no extra charge whatsoever)
Hi @H. Richard , I read to the end of your post - and not much grabs me and makes me want to read to the end of long posts - but your thoughts are very much in line with my own. I want a relationship not religion. And I specially like the quoted paragraph.
 
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Pearl

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Do you bow your head... close your eyes, to pray? You are perpetuating an "invented" ritual that Jesus never demonstrated for us if you feel it is necessary to only pray on this manner.
I pray in a variety of ways and not always with my eyes closed. I do not recite prayers either but just talk to God in a natural way. Our prayers in church are also non-ritualistic and anybody can pray at any time.
 

Pearl

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True. But you are not going to make a dent in their teachings, and neither is anyone else. When God opens the eyes of Catholics to the errors of their church, then they simply depart from Babylon.
I pray that the eyes of Catholics will be opened and have doe for a while.
 
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Pearl

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Everyone sitting in church automatically and dutifully drops their head and closes their eyes, in unison, at the appointed moment the preacher instructs them to. Yep, we have made it a ritual.
I agree that if that happens it is a ritual but it's not like that in my church.