Let me give you a hint. After a Calvinist is stumped by Scripture, he has no choice but to rail against those who have refuted Calvinism. It is either that or honestly admit that he has believed a false gospel all along.
All the ELECT please stand up
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Let’s post your comments again..
Where in any of the above do you see evidence of more then the twelve. I challenge anybody to read John 13-17 and show me all the evidence that proves there was more promised the HG then the apostles present..
Helen
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Seems to me...what the Pope is to the Catholics, Calvin is to them.
Isn't that what a 'religion' is, Following a man and what he teaches.
Whereas following Christ is a living vibrant relationship.
"Snip" means that only a portion of a post is being quoted. Unless you start getting snippy.
Christ Jesus is the "Christ" in Christian! By definition believers in Christ believe Christ and all Christ's words. Christ said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) which can also be translated from Greek to English as "you did not elect Me, but I elect you". I believe that Christ exclusively chooses/elects in the manner He prescribed in John 15:16; on the other hand, you do not believe that Christ exclusively chooses/elects in the manner He prescribed in John 15:16.
Enoch111, I read your post in it's entirety, and your post is devoid of scripture! That would have to be because NO SCRIPTURE EXISTS TO COUNTERMAND WHEN LORD JESUS SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16)!
Your fallacy that God does not elect/choose people is based on your misinterpretation of scripture, and your deceit was refuted with this "Enochh111 Successfully Refuted About Election Post" (in this thread).
You blindly assert under false pretenses that repentance is of man, but here is proof that repentance comes from God, "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread).
Behold, all this scripture presented in the the two above mentioned posts as well as prove your freewill doctrine heretical, and NOT ONE CAN BE REFUTED!
A person is either in Christ or not, and you deny Christ in your denial of Who He says He is - the exclusive Chooser/Electer of persons, so "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48) as spoken by Christ is hanging over you.
The "woe" posts dig into this deeply, so I encourage you to watch carefully. Perhaps God will grant you repentance.
Well, back to the "woe to you freewillers" posts.
You conspicuously and deceptively eliminated important sections of ALL THREE POSTS.
You apply your discipline of delusion to scripture, and now you apply your discipline of delusion to my posts. My posts contain much Word of God in accurate context.
Here are the posts that demonstrate that the "you" spoken by Lord Jesus recorded in John 14:16 and John 15:16 refer to all of Jesus' disciples in all time since Jesus said such and the evidence of the 120 disciples in Acts chapter 1 and chapter 2 were filled by the Holy Spirit!
From the second post which you omitted, Matthias and Joseph were with the apostles all the time according to Acts 1:21-23. That was in reference to Exhibit 7 in the first post. That is more then just the apostles in the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17.
- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)
- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)
- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)
Back to the "woe to free willians" posting.
Woe to you free willers because you are clothed in your willpower instead of clothed in Christ, you cannot serve two masters; therefore, the Master concluded a parable thusly "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'" (Matthew 6:24, John 8:44, Matthew 22:1-14)!
Woe to you free willers because you do not confess in accord with the Word of God that God alone is good because you being a bad tree you cannot produce good fruit yet you claim good fruit by your ability to choose God as well as fruit of the Spirit of God (Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18, Matthew 7:17-18, John 15:16, Galatians 5:22-23, John 15:1-8)!
Woe to free-willers and man's choice advocates who erroneously claim that a child of God can transition into not - thus you deny Lord Jesus' words "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 6:37, John 6:39, John 10:38)!
Woe to you freewillers who say "I put my faith in Jesus" in spite of the Lord Jesus saying that God puts faith in the child of God (John 6:29)!
Woe to free willians and false choosers because in violation of the word of Lord Jesus and the Book of Revelation of the Apostle John you attempt to add "choose" and/or "will[power]" to scripture such as John 3:16 as well as subtract scripture such as John 15:16 - as the Holy Spirit dictates the application of these passages to the Sovereignty of God in man's salvation (John 14:23-24, Revelation 22:18-19)!
Woe to you free will promulgators who say "I accepted Jesus into my heart" lacking scriptural and spiritual authority for such a man-centric acceptance statement because truly it matters what is acceptable to God (John 6:37, Romans 12:1)!
Woe to you free willers because you because you think, under false pretenses, that you have apprehended the Spirit of God in your willpower, but in Truth you have only grasped your own vapor (Jeremiah 17:9, Isaiah 2:22, James 4:14, Isaiah 55:1, Genesis 2:7, John 15:16)!
Woe to you free willers who falsely insert the word "choose" into a scripture passage in which "choose" is not stated because truly either one acts for good in the will of the Father in heaven or one acts for sin in the will of the devil/flesh (Matthew 7:15-27, John 15:1-11, Matthew 15:50, Galatians 5:22-23, Galatians 5:19-21, John 8:44)!
Woe to you free willers because in your heart you wrongfully claim the place of the Potter and disparage the Potter's blessed work (Isaiah 64:8, Romans 9:20-24)!
Woe to you free willers because you are blind to God's Sovereignty in man's salvation leading the blind (Matthew 15:14)!
Woe to you free willers being incapable of discerning Truth in your own free will (John 14:6, Hebrews 5:14, Romans 1:22-24)!
Woe to you free willers because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves (Matthew 23:15)!
Woe to you free willers for choosing a false god (Exodus 20:3-5)!
Woe to you free willers who say "I chose God" for you witness against yourselves (Joshua 24:19-22, Matthew 12:34-37, John 15:16)!
Woe to you free willers because you do not believe the Son of God's "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) thus rendering yourselves in disobedience to the wrath of God (John 3:36)!
Woe to you free willers who claim to have chosen Jesus in direct opposition to Lord Jesus Christ's words "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) which is applicable to all believers in all time!
Woe to you free willers who do not read the content of the links below which lead to much edifying Word of God quotes and citations that declare the Sovereignty Of God in man's salvation! The blood of free willers is on their own hands, may God have mercy on free willers souls!
The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.
These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:
- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)
- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)
- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)
- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)
- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)
- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)
- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)
- "Lord Jesus Describes Part Of His Essence/Character - God Alone Chooses In Salvation Doctrine Post" (in this thread)
- "The Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17, and Joshua 24:15 Reveal The Sovereignty Of God In Man's Salvation Post" (in this thread)
- "The Addendum to Genesis 1:31, Genesis 2:16-17 Post Explaining Absence Of Choose Conjugate As Well As IF/THEN Application In Genesis 1-3 Post" (in this thread)
The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
I see you want to play a game of 'my verses trump your verses.' This is hardly a valid refutation of what I presented. As a matter of fact, it's quite irresponsible and a gross misuse of Scripture. All you've done is set up a contradiction between my verses and yours and you offer no solution to this problem whatsoever. Did you really think no one would notice? What you should have done was demonstrate, via exposition, how your verses and mine fit together without contradiction while supporting your view of the matter. I can do this easily regarding my view. Can you?
The will of God is that none are lost. But does that mean...none will be lost? No.
1 Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
It is the will of God that ALL men are to be saved but does that mean all men are saved? No
Titus 2:11 tells us that the grace of God which brings salvation has appeared to all men.
Does this mean all men will be saved? No.
The context is about Antichrist which are people who don’t believe in Christ. All this passage says is that there were people like this among them who were not believers. As the church we cannot know whether some one is sincere about their conversion. There are still people that go through the motions but do not obey “from the heart” Rom 6:17. When times get tough they are out. This passage DOES NOT teach that a true believer can never fall away.
Where does this prove that a believer in Christ cannot fall away? All it says is that there will be people in the end that think they are saved but will find out they aren’t. I would be afraid of this passage if I were you. There are no valid contradictions in scripture. You are just creating them in your own mind.
I have read about a few baptist pastors who were living in adultery and then they got caught. If they would have died during the extended period of time that they were living in adultery; do you believe they would still be saved?
Since you appear to have glossed right over the fact that Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 Were With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' from the Baptism of John until He was taken up (links back to a post in this thread) as recorded in Acts 1:21-23.
THIS TRUE SCRIPTURE ABSOLUTELY PROVES MORE THAN THE APOSTLES WERE AT THE SUPPER RECORDED IN JOHN CHAPTERS 13 - 17!
Woe to you free willers who claim that God blots out names from "the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain" included in the "book of life" "from the foundation of the world" (every occurrance of "book of life" in the Bible: Psalm 69:28, Plilippians 4:3, Revelation 3:5, Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8, Revelation 20:15, Revelation 21:27, Revelation 21:10 - no scripture says God blots out names [executed punishment] instead some scripture conveys threat)!
Woe to you free willers who deny that only "[everyone] whose name has been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain" shall come into "the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God" (every occurrance of "book of life" in the Bible: Psalm 69:28, Plilippians 4:3, Revelation 3:5, Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8, Revelation 20:15, Revelation 21:27, Revelation 21:10)!
Word of God saturated content via this link: (1) prior posted 'woe to you free willers' (2) Sovereignty of God in man's salvation links - all in this thread.
Helen
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You CANNOT prove that Matthias was with them every minute of every day or at every time they were with Jesus. Mary too had been there from the beginning but would you claim she was with them every time the twelve were with Jesus? Of course not. You are adding to scripture something that the text doesn’t demand. You do that to support you own false doctrine because you know if you don’t your doctrine fails.
The Word of God is TRUE. The Scripture clearly states "accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us" in Acts 1:21-22; therefore, Scripture is true expounding that Matthias and Joseph were with Lord Jesus at the supper recorded in John chapters 13-17!
It is time to test CNKW3's words. CNKW3 claims that Matthias and Joseph were not at the supper recorded in John chapters 13-17; on the other hand, the Book of the Acts of the Apostles explicitly states that Matthias and Joseph were with the Apostles all the time from the baptism of John until He was taken up; therefore, since Luke (the author of the Book of Luke and the Book of Acts) wrote the truth that makes CNKW3 is a liar.
You CANNOT prove that Matthias and Joseph were absent during the supper recorded in John chapters 13-17 using scripture! Do not deceived, scripture states they were there "all the time" (Acts 1:21)! You can only exercise your discipline of delusion.
Lord Jesus' declaration "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) applies to all believers in all time.
Woe to you free willers because you fail to understand that "grace" is "undeserved love", yet you conceive that by your feigned love toward God that you deserve God's love in return, yet truly "love is from God" thus we believers truly love God because the love of God abides in us, God is Love (1 John 4:6-10, Jeremiah 7:8-11, John 17:26)!
Word of God saturated content via this link: (1) prior posted 'woe to you free willers' (2) Sovereignty of God in man's salvation links - all in this thread.
Yes i can...Luke your writer told us who Christ sat down with at the supper..
Luke 22:13-14 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
WITH THE TWELVE!
It doesn’t get any clearer. If you add Matthias then there would be thirteen. I’m pretty sure Luke could count. He was a physician.
Oh yea, I forgot. According to you, since you were there, there were others standing up off to the side. That’s right. I forgot.
Luke 22:13-14 does not state that only the Apostles were there with Lord Jesus - the key word is "only"; therefore, Luke 22:13-14 is in accord with Acts 1:21-23.
You are out of accord with both Luke 22:13-14 and Acts 1:21-23 and when Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16)!
Neither Matthew 26:20 nor Mark 14:17 nor Luke 22:14 nor John chapters 12 nor 13 indicate "only" the Apostles were present at the supper, yet Acts 1:21-23 indicates that Matthias And Joseph were with the Apostles all the time from the Baptism of John until He was taken up; therefore, all these passages are in accord. This dispute about the audience during the supper recorded in John chapters 13-17 digresses from the next point that is conclusive for Lord Jesus said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20) thus He indicated that the content of John chapters 13-17 applies to all His disciples of all time!
This post eliminates any need for dispute over whether just the Apostles or the Apostles with other disciples including Matthias And Joseph were at the supper recorded in John chapters 13-17 (in this thread) because this post illuminates that when Lord Jesus said "you" in John 14:16 and "you" in John 15:16 He refers to all His dicsiples in all time.
In addition to the Holy Spirit indwelling the about 120 as recorded in Acts 1:15 and Acts 2:1-4, but the Holy Spirit is also recorded as indwelling the people at Cornelius' place in Acts 10:44! When Lord Jesus said "you" in "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16) and "you" in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) thus Scripture is proof that Jesus was speaking to all disciples in all time!
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