Can one be saved while they are all alone?

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CNKW3

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He did not make it up.

Hebrews 9
"23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another—And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation."

...You owe Earburner an apology. And you have need to confess your many errors to God.
No I don’t. You post a passage that talks about items of the old law as copies and claim it is about baptism? You owe me an apology for trickery. The Bible also calls them types and shadows. This passage has nothing to say about baptism but if you back up one verses look what you find..
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
How did these children of God have a full assurance of faith? Through pure waters. The pure waters of baptism. Couple that with 1 pet 3:21 and you will find they are teaching the same thing.....our conscience is cleared through the saving waters of baptism. When we know that are sins have been removed.
 

CNKW3

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No. I will not witness to a fool who mocks God and his children. Your loss.
It’s because you can’t “witness”. You got nothing but some story full of emotion that somehow is supposed to prove that your filled with the Spirit.
 

ScottA

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No I don’t. You post a passage that talks about items of the old law as copies and claim it is about baptism? You owe me an apology for trickery. The Bible also calls them types and shadows. This passage has nothing to say about baptism but if you back up one verses look what you find..
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
How did these children of God have a full assurance of faith? Through pure waters. The pure waters of baptism. Couple that with 1 pet 3:21 and you will find they are teaching the same thing.....our conscience is cleared through the saving waters of baptism. When we know that are sins have been removed.
Okay...you are really slow...so I will spell it out for you:

What I quoted was Paul's qualifying statement to establish by the precedence of the past and their failures, that the waters were in fact NOT liquid, just as Jesus referred to at the well:

John 4:13-25
"Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." 15 The woman said to Him, "Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw." 16 Jesus said to her, "Go, call your husband, and come here." 17 The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have well said, 'I have no husband,' 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly." 19 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship." 21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."​

...Do you see? These things are only symbolic of what they actually represent. Or will you not heed their counsel as well as ours, but continue to repeat the failures of the past?
 
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ScottA

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It’s because you can’t “witness”. You got nothing but some story full of emotion that somehow is supposed to prove that your filled with the Spirit.
If you were not so blind, you would have noticed that I already gave witness.

How does it feel to be dead wrong?

It is you rather who is overcome with emotion. Weeping and gnashing.
 
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Ezra

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Of course the blood washes away our sins. You are exactly right.
Here’s the million dollar question......
WHEN DOES THAT HAPPEN?
Let’s let the Bible help us with that. Let’s not rely on your pastor, Billy Graham or some seminary professor.

The Bible clearly tells us WHAT washes our sins away...
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
This passage does not tell us WHEN that happens. We have to get more information.

The Bible also clearly tells us WHEN the blood washes our sins away.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
You can include acts 2:38 and rom 6:3-5,17,18 as further support

Ps 119:160 say that “the sum of thy word is truth”.
So, the sum of what we just studied shows us that the blood is applied to the believer when they come out of the waters of baptism. They work together in concert as planned by God.
Feel free to show me where the Bible teaches that sins are washed away by the blood at the point of belief.
Feel free to show me where the Bible teaches that sins are washed away by the blood at the point of belief.
i just did several scriptures and a full chapter of hebrews 9 ..
not only have you took away the word of God but your know trying to add to .by using baptism which is a work the follows salvation . the Blood Christ shed for us is not water
1 Peter 1:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: in Egypt when the death angel was to passover. they was instructed to apply the Blood NOT WATER WHEN GOD coverd adam and eve of their nakedness he covered them in animal skins a covering for there sins .a shedding of Blood took place for the covering of sin.. paul writes in ephesians
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
now then we go into justification which means more or less declared righteous not guilty just as if we never sinned. please Note that in th above scriptures i listed and the ones in romans not one..none zilch says by water baptism


Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

even in the wilderness the High Priest presented the Blood in the Holy of Holies
Hebrews 9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.



NO WATER baptism is even mentioned i done broke my vow not to answer


 
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CNKW3

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Okay...you are really slow...so I will spell it out for you:

What I quoted was Paul's qualifying statement to establish by the precedence of the past and their failures, that the waters were in fact NOT liquid, just as Jesus referred to at the well:

John 4:13-25
"Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." 15 The woman said to Him, "Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw." 16 Jesus said to her, "Go, call your husband, and come here." 17 The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have well said, 'I have no husband,' 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly." 19 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship." 21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."​

...Do you see? These things are only symbolic of what they actually represent. Or will you not heed their counsel as well as ours, but continue to repeat the failures of the past?
Heb 10:23 is what you posted. It did not include water. It is not tied in with John 4 at all.
 

Helen

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i just did several scriptures and a full chapter of hebrews 9 ..
not only have you took away the word of God but your know trying to add to .by using baptism which is a work the follows salvation . the Blood Christ shed for us is not water
1 Peter 1:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: in Egypt when the death angel was to passover. they was instructed to apply the Blood NOT WATER WHEN GOD coverd adam and eve of their nakedness he covered them in animal skins a covering for there sins .a shedding of Blood took place for the covering of sin.. paul writes in ephesians
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
now then we go into justification which means more or less declared righteous not guilty just as if we never sinned. please Note that in th above scriptures i listed and the ones in romans not one..none zilch says by water baptism


Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

even in the wilderness the High Priest presented the Blood in the Holy of Holies
Hebrews 9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.



NO WATER baptism is even mentioned i done broke my vow not to answer



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ScottA

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Heb 10:23 is what you posted. It did not include water. It is not tied in with John 4 at all.
No...I posted Hebrews 9.

But that is not the point. If you cannot make the connection of the symbolic things given in the scriptures...you are not qualified to say one way or the other. That was my point of quoting John 4.

You have failed to discern the scriptures spiritually.
 

Ezra

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they are blinded by religion ..i noticed he mentioned pentecostals .but yet lines up with the apostolics oneness the trinity pentecostals all believe pretty close with the rest of us.on being saved .but this is what we are dealing with Mark 8:18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear?' And do you not remember?.. we all have certain doctrine we cling to.that w all see some different . but our agreement is water baptism does not save. if he/she reads my post on being justified and the blood .still refuses to see what were saying hertic comes into play
 

amadeus

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I did exactly what Saul of Tarsus did. I heard the word, believed, repented, confessed and was baptized in order to wash away my sins calling on the name of the Lord. He wasn’t saved alone neither was I. You can find all of that in acts 9 and 22. This is the same example we find over and over in the NT. But you know what example is surprisingly absent? Yours and many others on this board. But I guess that’s ok. You can be saved in any way you feel is right whether it comes from God or not. It’s all about emotion and testimony.
If you have read my many posts on this forum you have already read a number of my testimonies, but since you raise the idea this is about what happened back quite a few years ago... Please note that if it were only for you, I might remain silent, but others reading it here might be edified:

My wife and I met in a bar in 1971 when we were both at best nominal Catholics. We moved forward quickly to marriage in 1972 and by 1976 we had two young toddlers, a boy the elder [born 1973] and a girl [born 1974].

We needed something, but were unable to find it and as a result our marriage was coming to an end. We had lasted as long as we had for the sake of the children, but that was no longer enough, but we would try one more time... in our own way... to fix it.

Back in 1974 with a little boy, and our daughter nearly due, we moved into an apartment in Sunnyvale CA at the same time as a younger black family. They already had three children and the wife was also pregnant expecting their 4th. They were moving in upstairs while we were moving in downstairs immediately below them. They were the most sincere Christians I had ever known besides my paternal grandmother. They befriended us and helped us many times financially and otherwise over those few months we lived there as neighbors. Their continuous witness to us was their lives, but we really were not buying it, not yet. In November of 1974. the U.S. Government called me to work. From construction labor, and limousine driver, and taxi cab driver in the San Francisco Bay Area, I went all of a sudden to an employee of the Social Security Administration. My income doubled and we thought we were on the way to easy street with all of our troubles behind us. Not quite!

My job was to start in San Francisco which was about 50 miles north of our home in Sunnyvale. My wife’s doctor would not release her to move until after the baby was born so I rode a commuter train to work for a while. When we could we moved in closer to where my job was going finally be, in Richmond, CA on the east side of the Bay across from San Francisco. This was the scene when our rocky marriage was just about to break and we knew it. We had kept in touch with our friends in Sunnyvale who had always been there to help us in times of need.

Our solution to the marriage problem was to go off alone together for a couple of days. Without hesitation we called that mother of four to ask her to babysit our two little ones so we could go. She immediately agreed and so we gathered our youngsters and their stuff in the car and proceeded to drive the nearly 60 miles to Sunnyvale.

As we were driving toward Sunnyvale one of the things we discussed was the Christianity of our Sunnyvale friends. They were tea-totaling friends who allowed us to take advantage of them repeatedly because that was part of how they served God. They were always ready to help us as they were doing now. We had regularly laughed at them behind their backs while we guzzled our beer and lived our lives our way... and our way was failing so very badly. [The doubled income did not solve our problems.]

One of us, [to this day, neither of us remembers which] recalled that while they had never pressed it, they had invited us to attend a church service with them. Once the subject was brought up we decided we would ask if the invitation was still open. Maybe that would help us resolve our problems.

We arrived at the apartment and the wife, Rosalee, invited us in... We sat down at her small kitchen table and immediately we mentioned our decision to ask about attending a church service with them. She was delighted with our suggestion and she called her husband, Charles, at work about it.

It was a Monday. I remember it was a Monday because almost no one anywhere had or has regularly scheduled church services on Monday. Her husband called back after a bit and advised he had found a church in the greater San Jose area with a Monday evening service and asked if we would we like to go with them that night. We went and thus it began. God had entered the picture for us and has not left since.

There were no great revelations or transformations that first night in a church service together but our relationship with our old friends changed. Now living 60 miles apart we began to ask questions of our Sunnyvale friends, questions we had never asked before, about God and the Bible and the Holy Ghost as our interest flared. Regular visits with them to discuss the things of God began.

They helped us find a church affiliated with their own in our area. That church was having revival meetings 7 days a week when we began to attend. On January 15, 1976 my wife and I went up front separately when the lady preacher asked if anyone wanted to come forward and be prayed for. Someone close to us watched our children who were asleep on the floor and both of us repented that night. Two days later my wife received what they called the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Suddenly while she was praying and as I watched she began speaking in an unknown language. I was a student of a couple languages besides English but it was neither of those. My wife had never known any languages besides English.

When we went home that night, I cried because I wanted what my wife had received.

The revival services continued every night, seven days a week and we were always there. I was always reaching out to get hold of God, but days and weeks past and everyone just about gave up on me... except my wife and God.

Frequently at the beginning of a service our new pastor would say to me something like: “Brother John, if you don’t receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost you are going to hell”. In later years people told me I should have been offended, but at the time I was more worried about fixing my problem than accusing anyone else. My only real knowledge about God had come from the Catholic Church and no one there ever talked to me like this. Before we started going to that church, I had never read or owned a Bible of my own. That was changing for while the revival services continued, [Does anyone these days anywhere hold services 7 days a week for 3 months without interruption?], we were also now attending regular services as well and a Bible class for new converts. We began to read the Bible for the first time in our lives.

While I had not talked to anyone about it but my wife, I knew why I was not getting baptized with the Holy Ghost. I loved my job. I loved it too much and it interfered with my willingness to surrender everything to God.

On March 6,1976 we got ready and went to the evening revival service as usual, but this time I had decided to ask God to help me with this love for my job, to help me put it aside so I could receive what my wife had received. I went at it immediately praying and talking to God and telling Him if I needed to I would quit my job. The lady evangelist as usual asked if some of the brothers would come and pray with me, but I guess they were tired of praying with me. Brothers were supposed to pray with brothers and sisters with sisters. Not one brother came up and prayed with me that night, but my wife did. Between her and my own resolve to give up even my job if necessary, it wasn’t long before my prayers were coming out of my mouth in a language unknown to me. I felt an unbelievable warmth pass through my entire body like nothing even close to anything I had ever previously experienced. That was the real beginning.

God did not require me to quit my job, not yet. That was to come many years later and is the beginning of another testimony.

Our marriage was saved indeed, as were we. We have had our troubles over the years, but never again was our marriage in serious jeopardy.

Give God the glory!
 
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amadeus

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Saul was not saved that way. I’ve covered it in a few other post and don’t care to do it again. I’ll say again....anybody can claim anything they want but it doesn’t make it so. You can “testify” away but that has no bearing on ones salvation. I can claim I am saved but if it doesn’t line up with the word of God it is void. There is not one example of anybody being quite “saved” all by themselves in the entire NT.
And here you are again standing in judgment about things on which you obviously really know nothing at all. Why have you not at least learned enough to know when to be silent? Even Jesus who knew so much recognized that sometimes silence was the will of God?
 

Ezra

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If you have read my many posts on this forum you have already read a number of my testimonies, but since you raise the idea this is about what happened back quite a few years ago... Please note that if it were only for you, I might remain silent, but others reading it here might be edified:

My wife and I met in a bar in 1971 when we were both at best nominal Catholics. We moved forward quickly to marriage in 1972 and by 1976 we had two young toddlers, a boy the elder [born 1973] and a girl [born 1974].

We needed something, but were unable to find it and as a result our marriage was coming to an end. We had lasted as long as we had for the sake of the children, but that was no longer enough, but we would try one more time... in our own way... to fix it.

Back in 1974 with a little boy, and our daughter nearly due, we moved into an apartment in Sunnyvale CA at the same time as a younger black family. They already had three children and the wife was also pregnant expecting their 4th. They were moving in upstairs while we were moving in downstairs immediately below them. They were the most sincere Christians I had ever known besides my paternal grandmother. They befriended us and helped us many times financially and otherwise over those few months we lived there as neighbors. Their continuous witness to us was their lives, but we really were not buying it, not yet. In November of 1974. the U.S. Government called me to work. From construction labor, and limousine driver, and taxi cab driver in the San Francisco Bay Area, I went all of a sudden to an employee of the Social Security Administration. My income doubled and we thought we were on the way to easy street with all of our troubles behind us. Not quite!

My job was to start in San Francisco which was about 50 miles north of our home in Sunnyvale. My wife’s doctor would not release her to move until after the baby was born so I rode a commuter train to work for a while. When we could we moved in closer to where my job was going finally be, in Richmond, CA on the east side of the Bay across from San Francisco. This was the scene when our rocky marriage was just about to break and we knew it. We had kept in touch with our friends in Sunnyvale who had always been there to help us in times of need.

Our solution to the marriage problem was to go off alone together for a couple of days. Without hesitation we called that mother of four to ask her to babysit our two little ones so we could go. She immediately agreed and so we gathered our youngsters and their stuff in the car and proceeded to drive the nearly 60 miles to Sunnyvale.

As we were driving toward Sunnyvale one of the things we discussed was the Christianity of our Sunnyvale friends. They were tea-totaling friends who allowed us to take advantage of them repeatedly because that was part of how they served God. They were always ready to help us as they were doing now. We had regularly laughed at them behind their backs while we guzzled our beer and lived our lives our way... and our way was failing so very badly. [The doubled income had not solved our problems.]

One of us, [to this day, neither of us remembers which] recalled that while they had never pressed it, they had invited us to attend a church service with them. Once the subject was brought up we decided we would ask if the invitation was still open. Maybe that would help us resolve our problems.

We arrived at the apartment and the wife, Rosalee, invited us in... We sat down at her small kitchen table and immediately we mentioned our decision to ask about attending a church service with them. She was delighted with our suggestion and she called her husband, Charles, at work about it.

It was a Monday. I remember it was a Monday because almost no one anywhere had or has regularly scheduled church services on Monday. Her husband called back after a bit and advised he had found a church in the greater San Jose area with a Monday evening service and asked if we would we like to go with them that night. We went and thus it began. God had entered the picture for us and has not left since.

There were no great revelations or transformations that first night in a church service together but our relationship with our old friends changed. Now living 60 miles apart we began to ask questions of our Sunnyvale friends, questions we had never asked before, about God and the Bible and the Holy Ghost as our interest flared. Regular visits with them to discuss the things of God began.

They helped us find a church affiliated with their own in our area. That church was having revival meetings 7 days a week when we began to attend. On January 15, 1976 my wife and I went up front separately when the lady preacher asked if anyone wanted to come forward and be prayed for. Someone close to us watched our children who were asleep on the floor and both of us repented that night. Two days later my wife received what they called the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Suddenly while she was praying and as I watched she began speaking in an unknown language. I was a student of a couple languages besides English but it was neither of those. My wife had never known any languages besides English.

When we went home that night, I cried because I wanted what my wife had received.

The revival services continued every night, seven days a week and we were always there. I was always reaching out to get hold of God, but days and weeks past and everyone just about gave up on me... except my wife and God.

Frequently at the beginning of a service our new pastor would say to me something like: “Brother John, if you don’t receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost you are going to hell”. In later years people told me I should have been offended, but at the time I was more worried about fixing my problem than accusing anyone else. My only really knowledge about God had come from the Catholic Church and no one there ever talked me like this. Before we started going to that church, I had never read or owned a Bible of my own. That was changing for while the revival services continued, [Does anyone these days anywhere hold services 7 days a week for 3 months without interruption?], we were also now attending regular services as well and a Bible class for new converts. We began to read the Bible for the first in our lives.

While I had not talked to anyone about it but my wife, I knew why I was not getting baptized with the Holy Ghost. I loved my job. I loved it too much and it interfered with my willingness to surrender everything to God.

On March 6,1976 we got ready and went to the evening revival service as usual, but this time I had decided to ask God to help me with this love for my job, to help me put it aside so I could receive what my wife had received. I went at it immediately praying and talking to God and telling Him if I needed to I would quit my job. The lady evangelist as usual asked if some of the brothers would come and pray with me, but I guess they were tired of praying with me. Brothers were supposed to pray with brothers and sisters with sisters. Not one brother came up and prayed with me that night, but my wife did. Between her and my own resolve to give up even my job if necessary, it wasn’t long before my prayers were coming out of my mouth in a language unknown to me. I felt an unbelievable warmth pass through my entire body like nothing even close to anything I had ever previously experienced. That was the real beginning.

God did not require me to quit my job, not yet. That was to come many years later and is the beginning of another testimony.

Our marriage was saved indeed, as were we. We have had our troubles over the years, but never again was our marriage in serious jeopardy.

Give God the glory!
very interesting
 

tabletalk

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I have heard from many people that they were “saved” while they were all alone. They woke up in their bed, got on their knees and prayed to God. They then knew they were saved.
I’ve heard of people riding in their car or on their motorcycle and had an experience, prayed to God, and they knew right then they were saved. There was nobody present.

If this is the case, and we can be saved in this fashion, then why didn’t the HS see fit to give us just ONE example of a person, who was all by themselves, had some experience, prayed to God, asked for forgiveness, and then the Bible pronounced them saved.

So, I am asking for this....
For ANYBODY to show me where ANYONE was ever “saved” in the fashion many people say they were today. All by themselves with no participation from any other human being.
If you cannot show me one Biblical example of this experience then why does anybody think they can be saved in a way that the HS saw fit to leave absent. Are we able to make up our own way of salvation or must we do what what they did when the church was first established?

Maybe someone has mentioned this already.
If you think Abraham was saved, then this from Galatians 3: 8. … "the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”
Was he alone? Not sure, but I think so.
Also, I'm not sure what 'the Scripture' refers to, but it must be the Word of God, in some form.
I do think a person can be saved with no other person around him/her.
 

CNKW3

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i just did several scriptures and a full chapter of hebrews 9 ..
not only have you took away the word of God but your know trying to add to .by using baptism which is a work the follows salvation . the Blood Christ shed for us is not water
1 Peter 1:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: in Egypt when the death angel was to passover. they was instructed to apply the Blood NOT WATER WHEN GOD coverd adam and eve of their nakedness he covered them in animal skins a covering for there sins .a shedding of Blood took place for the covering of sin.. paul writes in ephesians
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
now then we go into justification which means more or less declared righteous not guilty just as if we never sinned. please Note that in th above scriptures i listed and the ones in romans not one..none zilch says by water baptism


Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

even in the wilderness the High Priest presented the Blood in the Holy of Holies
Hebrews 9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.



NO WATER baptism is even mentioned i done broke my vow not to answer

Why did you post all of Heb 9? Heb 9 is about the types of the OLD LAW. We are not under the OLD LAW.
Heb 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

We are under the NEW COVENANT. And in the NEW COVENANT Christ has commanded...
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
Under the NEW COVENANT we are “called” by the gospel 2 thes 2:13,14
And the gospel commands baptism...Mk 16:15,16. Mt 28:19
 

CNKW3

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No...I posted Hebrews 9.

But that is not the point. If you cannot make the connection of the symbolic things given in the scriptures...you are not qualified to say one way or the other. That was my point of quoting John 4.

You have failed to discern the scriptures spiritually.
You are right. You did post Heb 9.
Heb 9 is about the types of the OLD LAW. We are no longer under the OLD LAW. Christ did away with the OLD LAW and established a NEW COVENANT.
We are accountable to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 

CNKW3

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they are blinded by religion ..i noticed he mentioned pentecostals .but yet lines up with the apostolics oneness the trinity pentecostals all believe pretty close with the rest of us.on being saved .but this is what we are dealing with Mark 8:18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear?' And do you not remember?.. we all have certain doctrine we cling to.that w all see some different . but our agreement is water baptism does not save. if he/she reads my post on being justified and the blood .still refuses to see what were saying hertic comes into play
We are justified by the blood. But the key point is....WHEN or AT WHAT POINT are we justified by his blood.
Abraham was justified AT THE POINT OF OBEDIENCE.
James 2:21-24 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

We too are justified at the point of obedience.
Galatians 3:24-27 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Paul just explained HOW we are justified by faith. See the little word “for”. It is the Greek word gar which means because. So the above is a continuous thought explaining HOW we are justified by faith. It is not enough to just post a passage that says we are justified by faith. We need more information to explain HOW that happens.
When you read Paul above you see we come in contact with the blood through baptism. Through baptism one is placed “into Christ”. Through baptism one “puts on Christ”.

You guys make your mistake when you take certain passages but leave others out.
THE SUM OF THY WORD IS TRUTH.
 

CNKW3

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Maybe someone has mentioned this already.
If you think Abraham was saved, then this from Galatians 3: 8. … "the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”
Was he alone? Not sure, but I think so.
Also, I'm not sure what 'the Scripture' refers to, but it must be the Word of God, in some form.
I do think a person can be saved with no other person around him/her.
Abraham was NOT given the new covenant of Jesus Christ. Abraham was not even under the law of Moses. Read Heb 9: 15-17. We are under the law of Christ today. His new covenant that he established.
Did Abraham have to believe Christ raised from the dead? No. You do though.
But to your point. Abraham WAS NOT saved at the point of Gen 15:6 and I can prove it.

If God wanted people under the NEW COVENANT to be saved all by themselves then where are all the examples? There is example after example of conversion and not ONE has a person being converted ALL BY THEMSELVES. I’m amazed at how many people could care a less that their “salvation” cannot even be found in the Bible.
 

Ezra

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We are justified by the blood. But the key point is....WHEN or AT WHAT POINT are we justified by his blood.
the moment wE are saved NOT BAPTIZED . i took the time out and showed you justification at the point a person is Born Again ..Christ was baptized did he need to be saved. He Told the thief on the cross today you will be with me in paradise . please note
Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
was said before the cross the thief on the cross was NOT BAPTIZED
You guys make your mistake when you take certain passages but leave others out.
THE ONLY MISTAKE IS YOURS
 
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