Please explain this.

WalterandDebbie · Jun 30, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
Interesting--my Bible does not say that repentance leads to salvation in either passage. It merely says that worldly sorrow which lacks repentance leads to spiritual death. It also says further in 2 Corinthians 7:11: "Just see what godly sorrow produced in you...You showed that you have done everything necessary to make things right." In any case, is God who grants repentance (2 Timothy 2:25).

Amen

Enoch111 · Jun 30, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
Repentance is not a requirement--it is the outcome of grace through faith.

That is incorrect. Repentance is in indeed a requirement and a condition of salvation. There are many Scriptures that make this crystal clear. Repentance is necessary for the remission of sins, and there is no salvation without the forgiveness of sins.

We have the words of Christ Himself, whose first words in His earthly ministry we as follows: From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Mt 4:17)

Shortly before that, John the Baptist said the same thing: In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.(Mt 3:1,2)

And just before His ascension, Christ made this very significant statement, and Peter preached exactly what Christ commanded: And [Jesus] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:46,47)

And that is why Peter said: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost... Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 2:38; 3:19)

As you can see from Peter's words, sins cannot be blotted out until there is repentance and conversion. And many preachers today are falsifying the Gospel by not preaching what Christ and His apostles preached.

So how in the world can any Christian -- in good conscience -- ignore all these Scripture?

Lady Crosstalk · Jun 30, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Of course it’s a requirement. It’s commanded and a part of the great commission Lk 24:47, acts 2:38; 3:19; 26:20
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Why command repentance if we have no choice in the matter? We can obey or not obey. I didn’t take you for a Calvinist.

I'm NOT a Calvinist--they say that the free will of man does not exist. Still, 2 Timothy 2:25 tells us that it is God who grants repentance. The humility of godly sorrow seems to precede God's granting of repentance. (see Acts 2) Repenting in "sackcloth and ashes" was an ancient practice in Israel (which Jesus notes in Matthew 11:21) an act of humiliation before a holy God. But it counted for nothing if the internal state of the penitent individual did not match the exterior. So, it appears that repentance is both prompted by the Holy Spirit and then chosen as an act of obedience by those who are truly repentant.

Grailhunter · Jun 30, 2019

@Enoch111 @CNKW3 Answer me this riddle...According to the Gospels Christ said the word salvation once. Luke 19:9. Why do you think that is?
And do you think it was instantaneous for the household or family?

CNKW3 · Jun 30, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
Submitting to the Holy Spirit's prompting to repent is an act of obedience--as is submitting to the waters of baptism. They are not requirements for salvation--but they are part of the journey of faith (sanctification). Let's not confuse justification with sanctification.

Salvation comes when our sins are removed and at that point we are justified or (just if I had not sinned). That’s what justified means. That happens AFTER one is obedient to Christ through repentance and baptism acts 2:38; 3:19. There sins are remitted, washed away, forgiven. They are justified.
Also at that same point we are sanctified (set apart or made holy).
In acts 2 after those on Pentecost were baptized we are told that the Lord added the saved to the church (ekklesia or called out body) these baptized believers were set apart in the body of Christ, they were sanctified.
So, if you are justified you are also sanctified and vice versa. You can’t be “set apart” and not be saved or justified. You can’t be saved or justified and not be set apart as a child of God, a part of the body of Christ.
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy(root word for sanctified) nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
He is writing to the church or the body of Christ. Those who have been sanctified 1 pet 1:2.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
This all happens at once. At the moment one is washed in baptism.

You have people going to heaven who are not even sanctified.
But that can’t happen....
Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.
You have them saved but somehow sanctification comes later. I guess they aren’t heaven bound for awhile.

CNKW3 · Jun 30, 2019

Grailhunter said:
@Enoch111 @CNKW3 Answer me this riddle...According to the Gospels Christ said the word salvation once. Luke 19:9. Why do you think that is?
And do you think it was instantaneous for the household or family?

I will study what you ask if you are sincere but....
Acts 17:30. God commands all men everywhere to repent.
The word repentance is not even in the book of John. Why is that?

Lady Crosstalk · Jun 30, 2019

Enoch111 said:
That is incorrect. Repentance is in indeed a requirement and a condition of salvation. There are many Scriptures that make this crystal clear. Repentance is necessary for the remission of sins, and there is no salvation without the forgiveness of sins.

We have the words of Christ Himself, whose first words in His earthly ministry we as follows: From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Mt 4:17)

Shortly before that, John the Baptist said the same thing: In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.(Mt 3:1,2)

And just before His ascension, Christ made this very significant statement, and Peter preached exactly what Christ commanded: And [Jesus] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:46,47)

And that is why Peter said: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost... Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 2:38; 3:19)

As you can see from Peter's words, sins cannot be blotted out until there is repentance and conversion. And many preachers today are falsifying the Gospel by not preaching what Christ and His apostles preached.

So how in the world can any Christian -- in good conscience -- ignore all these Scripture?

God also requires that we love Him and other human beings, but that is impossible for those who are still in the world.

Grailhunter · Jun 30, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Acts 17:30. God commands all men everywhere to repent.
The word repentance is not even in the book of John. Why is that?

I always like it when people dodge the question. Better think about it. Better yet, Christ speaks of saved quite a bit...but not salvation. Why?

CNKW3 · Jun 30, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
I'm NOT a Calvinist--they say that the free will of man does not exist. Still, 2 Timothy 2:25 tells us that it is God who grants repentance. The humility of godly sorrow seems to precede God's granting of repentance. (see Acts 2) Repenting in "sackcloth and ashes" was an ancient practice in Israel (which Jesus notes in Matthew 11:21) an act of humiliation before a holy God. But it counted for nothing if the internal state of the penitent individual did not match the exterior. So, it appears that repentance is both prompted by the Holy Spirit and then chosen as an act of obedience by those who are truly repentant.

this to me sounds more reasonable but it seems different then what you said.
2 Corinthians 7:9-11 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
proper repentance stems from the proper attitude about ones sins.

This was Paul’s message..
Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
The people he preached to could choose to obey or not.

CNKW3 · Jun 30, 2019

Grailhunter said:
I always like it when people dodge the question. Better think about it. Better yet, Christ speaks of saved quite a bit...but not salvation. Why?

I edited my post 5 seconds later. You must not have gotten the edited version.

Enoch111 · Jun 30, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
God also requires that we love Him and other human beings, but that is impossible for those who are still in the world.

You are now changing the subject. You have been given the Scriptures so that you will abandon your false idea about no repentance for salvation. So I will add another Scripture -- the very significant words of Paul: And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:20,21)

H. Richard · Jun 30, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
Does James not speak of looking into the perfect law of Liberty? Is the perfect law of Liberty not Christ?James 1:23-25 KJV
For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. [25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein , he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is , there is liberty. [18] But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Hebrews 5:8-9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; [9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

“Unto all them that obey him” to obey Him we first need to hear Him. John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

As far as boasting... so no flesh can boast. Doesn’t mean Spirit (And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.)cannot make our boast in the Lord: Psalm 34:1-3 I will bless the Lord at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth. [2] My soul shall make her boast in the Lord : the humble shall hear thereof , and be glad. [3] O magnify the Lord with me, and let us exalt his name together.

Spin it however you want...The perfect law of Liberty is Christ which James speaks of. Yes, as Jesus told the woman referred to as a dog that the children’s bread was not to be given to dogs...it didn’t end there but bread is offered to all. There is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female in Spirit but One new man created in Christ. The wall of partition torn down. So you tell me why james speaks of the Law of Liberty and that natural man forgetting who he is created anew and Paul speaks of the same staring into Liberty being changed from glory to glory “even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”

How can it be liberty if it is a law? James' perfect LAW of liberty is not being free from it. He is saying the law is perfect to which the scriptures agree and I agree. But if a person is under that law it condemns them because they can't keep it. James is not saying the child of God is free from the condemnation of the Law. He is only saying the law is perfect.

However, Paul is saying we are free from the Law of condemnation. But have it your way if you wish. There will be many in a very hot place who refuse to believe Jesus has already paid for the sins of the whole world. Obviously you don't think He has paid for yours if you have to keep laws.

Grailhunter · Jun 30, 2019

CNKW3 said:
I edited my post 5 seconds later. You must not have gotten the edited version.

Try it again...

Lady Crosstalk · Jun 30, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Salvation comes when our sins are removed and at that point we are justified or (just if I had not sinned). That’s what justified means. That happens AFTER one is obedient to Christ through repentance and baptism acts 2:38; 3:19. There sins are remitted, washed away, forgiven. They are justified.
Also at that same point we are sanctified (set apart or made holy).
In acts 2 after those on Pentecost were baptized we are told that the Lord added the saved to the church (ekklesia or called out body) these baptized believers were set apart in the body of Christ, they were sanctified.
So, if you are justified you are also sanctified and vice versa. You can’t be “set apart” and not be saved or justified. You can’t be saved or justified and not be set apart as a child of God, a part of the body of Christ.
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy(root word for sanctified) nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
He is writing to the church or the body of Christ. Those who have been sanctified 1 pet 1:2.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
This all happens at once. At the moment one is washed in baptism.

You have people going to heaven who are not even sanctified.
But that can’t happen....
Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.
You have them saved but somehow sanctification comes later. I guess they aren’t heaven bound for awhile.

Of course they are heaven-bound but lacking the cleansing of sanctification, they might not see God Himself. There was/is a special status for the wholly innocent and righteous--the reason why the Church has a special status and especially those martyred for the faith--part of God's justice and order. It is my belief, based on the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:3-10) that there are some who will go to heaven who will not necessarily see God. Look at verse 8--which seems to indicate that only the "pure in heart" will see Him. Some Old Testament saints might not be in this category of seeing God. For example--David was not permitted to build the Temple (and see the glory of God), because he was a man of war. Those who were in the "Bosom of Abraham" were in a paradise but, in Hebraic thought, that was not the place where God dwells (God dwelt in the "Third Heaven").

Lady Crosstalk · Jun 30, 2019

Enoch111 said:
You are now changing the subject. You have been given the Scriptures so that you will abandon your false idea about no repentance for salvation. So I will add another Scripture -- the very significant words of Paul: And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:20,21)

Not changing the subject at all. Just pointing out that we can be commanded to do something of which we are incapable--unless God makes us capable through His Holy Spirit. I still believe that repentance is not a requirement for salvation but rather an outgrowth of salvation. John 3:16--"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life." "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Acts 2:21) (Romans 10:13)

WalterandDebbie · Jun 30, 2019

firstthings1st. said:
Acts 17:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2 Corinthians 7:10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Amen, I was wondering what is Godly sorrow years ago.

Grailhunter · Jun 30, 2019

You guys really don't know. Salvation is a really big thing! Why is it that Christ is not speaking of it a lot during His ministry?

Lady Crosstalk · Jun 30, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Salvation comes when our sins are removed and at that point we are justified or (just if I had not sinned). That’s what justified means. That happens AFTER one is obedient to Christ through repentance and baptism acts 2:38; 3:19. There sins are remitted, washed away, forgiven. They are justified.
Also at that same point we are sanctified (set apart or made holy).
In acts 2 after those on Pentecost were baptized we are told that the Lord added the saved to the church (ekklesia or called out body) these baptized believers were set apart in the body of Christ, they were sanctified.
So, if you are justified you are also sanctified and vice versa. You can’t be “set apart” and not be saved or justified. You can’t be saved or justified and not be set apart as a child of God, a part of the body of Christ.
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy(root word for sanctified) nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
He is writing to the church or the body of Christ. Those who have been sanctified 1 pet 1:2.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
This all happens at once. At the moment one is washed in baptism.

You have people going to heaven who are not even sanctified.
But that can’t happen....
Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.
You have them saved but somehow sanctification comes later. I guess they aren’t heaven bound for awhile.

Did you forget about the Old Testament saints?

Grailhunter · Jun 30, 2019

Lady Crosstalk said:
Did you forget about the Old Testament saints?

Hey...no fair giving hints!

Lady Crosstalk · Jun 30, 2019

Grailhunter said:
Hey...no fair giving hints!

LOL

Please explain this.

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