Please explain this.

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justbyfaith

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You are not overextending by supplying two more verses that will help the reader better understand the meaning of what’s being discussed especially when it is all a part of the same thought.

Concerning Romans 4:7-8...it should be clear that they are quoted from Psalms 32:1-2.

When was King David baptized?
 

CNKW3

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Concerning Romans 4:7-8...it should be clear that they are quoted from Psalms 32:1-2.

When was King David baptized?
Neither David nor Abraham had to believe that Jesus had been raised from the dead. Does that negate your obligation to do so?
 

CNKW3

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@Enoch111 @CNKW3 Answer me this riddle...According to the Gospels Christ said the word salvation once. Luke 19:9. Why do you think that is?
And do you think it was instantaneous for the household or family?
You are wrong. Jesus said the word salvation twice. I don’t know why.
I believe Jesus had his self in mind when he said...today salvation is come into this house. But, He had power on earth to forgive sins. Mk 2:10
 

Lady Crosstalk

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Another fine example of persons that want to accept Jesus as Savior but will not accept Him as their Lord.
You do not know the least little bit about my walk with the Lord Jesus so I will thank you to keep your accusations to yourself.

Thomas said: My God and My Lord.
No, actually, he said, "my Lord and my God". In the first century, the word, "Lord" could have referred to an earthly master. You are apparently trying to make a case for "Lordship Salvation" which has a number of un-Biblical aspects. Too long to go into here but there are plenty of articles on the web that make the case against the theology of Lordship Salvation--which teaches, as a major tenet, that one cannot be saved unless one DOES something. Dr. Andy Wood of Sugar Land Baptist Church has this to say: "The moment a lost person exercises trust in Christ is the moment he is saved. Lewis Sperry Chafer, Theologian and founder of Dallas Theological Seminary, entitled this biblical phenomenon: 'Belief: God's One Condition of Salvation'." Why has God made salvation so simple? God has designed salvation as a free gift (Rom 4:4-5). If there were some human action to be performed beyond belief, then salvation becomes something that we do rather than what God does. Such a human insertion reduces salvation's free gift status by making it something we earn."

Lordship Salvation teaches that one must cease from all sin or be willing to do so as the means of securing salvation. Jesus IS my Savior and Lord, but when I came to Him, I didn't even know what that meant.
 
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Grailhunter

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You are wrong. Jesus said the word salvation twice. I don’t know why.
I believe Jesus had his self in mind when he said...today salvation is come into this house. But, He had power on earth to forgive sins. Mk 2:10

Correction noted, but still Salvation is a big thing, why did he not talk about it more? What is more important than Salvation?
 

justbyfaith

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Too long to go into here but there are plenty of articles on the web that make the case against the theology of Lordship Salvation--which teaches, as a major tenet, that one cannot be saved unless one DOES something.

Actually, Lordship salvation teaches that in order to be saved, one's relationship to Jesus Christ is that He is not only your Saviour, but your Lord.

This may or may not result in doing something. One might receive Jesus as Lord and the rapture could hit the very next second.

Of course, if Jesus is your Lord, then when He prompts you to do something, you will do it.

It is not to say that you are saved by works. You are saved by a faith that brings you into right relationship with Jesus Christ...submitted and surrendered to Him.

I have to say that if a man's life is not submitted and surrendered to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, I have very great doubt about whether he is truly saved...for salvation is a work that is accomplished in the heart. See Ezekiel 36:25-27, for example. One is given a new heart and a new spirit; and the result is that the Lord causes him to walk in His statutes and in His judgments.

If the love of the Lord is not shed abroad in your heart (Romans 5:5), then you ought to question whether you are really saved (see Galatians 3:14)...for salvation has to do with Christ coming in to dwell within the heart. And Christ is God (Hebrews 1:8-9); and God is love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16). So if Christ is dwelling in your heart, then the love of the Lord is also dwelling in your heart; which is the bond of perfectness (Colossians 3:14). And also, we serve Christ (obeying Him as Lord) because He has won our heart. We love Him because He first loved us. And we obey Him because we love Him...this means that our relationship to Him is that He is our Lord...if we are born again of the Holy Spirit.

So then, Lordship salvation is not about being saved by works. It is about being saved into having a specific attitude--of being submitted and surrendered to His love and commandments and Lordship in our lives.
 
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justbyfaith

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Neither David nor Abraham had to believe that Jesus had been raised from the dead. Does that negate your obligation to do so?
Point duly noted.

I am still not convinced that a man is not saved apart from being baptized. If you can show me scripture that specifically teaches that, it would be appreciated.

For Luke 11:9-13 shows that a person can receive the Holy Ghost simply by asking...that being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is not required.

It can certainly be a point of contact if you have any doubt...but required, absolutely not.
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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Actually, Lordship salvation teaches that in order to be saved, one's relationship to Jesus Christ is that He is not only your Saviour, but your Lord.

This may or may not result in doing something. One might receive Jesus as Lord and the rapture could hit the very next second.

Of course, if Jesus is your Lord, then when He prompts you to do something, you will do it.

It is not to say that you are saved by works. You are saved by a faith that brings you into right relationship with Jesus Christ...submitted and surrendered to Him.

I have to say that if a man's life is not submitted and surrendered to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, I have very great doubt about whether he is truly saved...for salvation is a work that is accomplished in the heart. See Ezekiel 36:25-27, for example. One is given a new heart and a new spirit; and the result is that the Lord causes him to walk in His statutes and in His judgments.

If the love of the Lord is not shed abroad in your heart (Romans 5:5), then you ought to question whether you are really saved (see Galatians 3:14)...for salvation has to do with Christ coming in to dwell within the heart. And Christ is God (Hebrews 1:8-9); and God is love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16). So if Christ is dwelling in your heart, then the love of the Lord is also dwelling in your heart; which is the bond of perfectness (Colossians 3:14). And also, we serve Christ (obeying Him as Lord) because He has won our heart. We love Him because He first loved us. And we obey Him because we love Him...this means that our relationship to Him is that He is our Lord...if we are born again of the Holy Spirit.

So then, Lordship salvation is not about being saved by works. It is about being saved into having a specific attitude--of being submitted and surrendered to His love and commandments and Lordship in our lives.

Nevertheless, it is a false teaching. It was meant as a counter to "carnal Christians" but what other kind of person ever comes to Christ? If it was called "Lordship Sanctification," I'd agree with it but tying it to salvation is horrible.
 

justbyfaith

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Nevertheless, it is a false teaching. If it was called "Lordship Sanctification," I'd agree with you but tying it to salvation is horrible.
Technically, I can live with it (and also, it is no false teaching).

Because there are three types of salvation in the Bible.

Justification...past tense...deliverance from the penalty of sin;

Sanctification...present tense...deliverance from the power of sin;

Glorification...future tense...deliverance from the presence of sin.

As such, sanctification is salvation...and therefore Lordship sanctification is, in a sense, Lordship salvation.

Also, I think that true redemption has to do with an inward work that takes place in the heart...and without that inward work a minister may just be telling a person that they are saved, though it be a false assurance that is given to them.

The blood of Jesus not only justifies (per Romans 5:9); it also sanctifies (Hebrews 10:29, Hebrews 13:12).

Is it possible that when it is applied to the heart it can do one without also doing the other?
 
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justbyfaith

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Concerning Lordship salvation...there is a parable at the end of the Sermon on the Mount as well as the Sermon on the Plain, where it is said that if a person hears Jesus' words and does them, he is likened unto a man who built his house on the rock. The storms of life came and did not shake the house...because the owner had dug deep and founded it on the rock.

Those who hear Jesus' words and don't do them, are likened to those who build their house on the sand...the storms of life came and the house fell; and great was the fall of it.

Now I suppose it can be argued that the house in question is merely the life on earth that you are building...but I will not presume to take that chance.

If the house represents the salvation of the builder...then obedience means that the house will stand the test of time. It is not a shallow, lukewarm, or nominal faith (mental assent) spoken of in Luke 8:13. It is a heart faith that is unto righteousness and enduring to the end, spoken of in Romans 10:10, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14, and Matthew 10:22.

The difference between these two types of faith is that one results in obedience and the other one doesn't.
 
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Helen

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@Lady Crosstalk will probably respond to you if you have not wore her out on this topic. Repentance is not required to be saved....but it is certainly part of the process of salvation.

He’s worn us all out in turn , in his thread about- “can we be saved alone”.

Which is not really a question , but an excuse for him to have 15 pages of posts telling us all that we weren’t “saved right” according to him...

He just has this “one drum to beat “ over and over again.

Now he is trying to hijack this thread too, because people are bored with his repetitive circular posts in his thread. Yawn.:rolleyes:

Okay, rant time is over now :D
 
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Grailhunter

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He’s worn us all out in turn , in his thread about- “can we be saved alone”.

Which is not really a question , but an excuse for him to have 15 pages of posts telling us all that we weren’t “saved right” according to him...

He just has this “one drum to beat “ over and over again.

Now he is trying to hijack this thread too, because people are bored with his repetitive circular posts in his thread. Yawn.:rolleyes:

Okay, rant time is over now :D

@"ByGrace" I hope all is good with you?
 
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CNKW3

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Correction noted, but still Salvation is a big thing, why did he not talk about it more? What is more important than Salvation?
He did talk about it. On many occasions, ie. John 3.
The last words he gave before ascending were all about salvation.
 

GodsGrace

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Lol, it depends on what you mean by obeying God. I think you are saying we have to keep the law.
Sorry HR,,,can't remember if I've answered this.
What do YOU mean by obeying God?
What is THE LAW to your understanding?
Are there works under the law...
and
Works under faith?
Do you think God wants to be obeyed..
or does He just make requests?
 
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GodsGrace

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He did talk about it. On many occasions, ie. John 3.
The last words he gave before ascending were all about salvation.
Actually, @Grailhunter is right.
Jesus DID NOT speak about "being saved" or "salvation" more than 4 or 5 times at the most.

What Jesus DID speak a great deal (about 100X) about how to get to heaven...
this INCLUDED having our spirit being in tune with God's spirit.
John 3:3,5
 
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CNKW3

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Point duly noted.

I am still not convinced that a man is not saved apart from being baptized. If you can show me scripture that specifically teaches that, it would be appreciated.
I’m gonna show it to you but you won’t see it. Your mind is made up.
We are saved by obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ? Yes?
Mk 16:15,16; Rom 1:16, 10:16; 1 Cor 4:15, 15:1,2; Gal 1:6-8; Eph 1:13; 2 thes 1:8, 2:13,14; 2 Tim 1:10
This gospel, that saves, had a beginning. Before Jesus ascended he gave the great commission to the apostles
Mk 16 :15,16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Under the new covenant that was to be preached; when does salvation occur? Before or after baptism?
I shouldn’t have to go any farther then this but I will.

Jesus said that this commission would “begin in Jerusalem”. Lk 24:47. That happened on Pentecost. Starting with the first new covenant gospel sermon in acts 2 EVERYBODY did the same thing to become a child of God.
They heard, believed, repented, and were baptized for remission of sins, Why? Because that is what Jesus commanded in the great commission. Read post 1 of my GC thread.
Please answer this question? WHAT IS BAPTISM FOR?
Acts 2:38, 3:19, 22:16; 1 Cor 12:13; Rom 6:3,4,17,18; Col 2:11-13; Gal 3:27; 1 pet 3:20,21


For Luke 11:9-13 shows that a person can receive the Holy Ghost simply by asking...that being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is not required.
No where in that passage does it say....baptism for remission of sins is not required. Read His commission in Mk 16:15,16; Lk 24:46,47; Mt 28:18-20 and show me where he says..All you have to do is ask for the HS. He said that hearing, believing, repentance, baptism and remission of sins would be preached BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM. now show me ANY example of someone, under the new covenant that began on Pentecost, who “just asked” for the HS? If you are right there should be example after example. All you will find are examples of baptism over and over. Why? Because it was part of Jesus last will and testament.
Heb 5:9 christ is the author of eternal salvation to all that OBEY him.


It can certainly be a point of contact if you have any doubt...but required, absolutely not.
What parts of the great commission ARE NOT required for Salvation?
Hearing? Paul said you can’t be saved without hearing... Rom 10:13-15
Believing?
Repenting?
Remission of sins? How do we receive remission of sins today?
Baptism? So the others are required but for some reason this one isn’t even though Jesus directly connected it to salvation. Mk 16