Please explain this.

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bbyrd009

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Well, the physical world does exist. The sun is the sun and all men see the sun (or at least feel it.)
see and you have decided that that is truth, and whatever i said maybe not, when i can completely agree with you that the world exists, but we perceive it differently and therefore function in it drastically differently depending upon our mental states. Go tell a 3year old what Trump just did and note their reaction, as that should basically be yours imo. The whole paradigm shifts. You do time in numbers, right, you make plans for tomorrow, debate what to have for dinner, um, what else lol, just, stuff grownups do, me too. Try and shut that off for a minute. Yes the physical world exists, if only by mutual agreement. We agree that the slightly over 5% that we are pretty sure is what we can see of the whole is what it is; only we dont agree on what that actually is of course lol, nono, not even close, i mean you and i might, on one or two things, but i'm still searching for that perfect friend how bout you lol.

"Knowing" that that the sun exists can keep you from knowing that you can also make ice with it, see. Refrigerators are also heaters :)
 

stunnedbygrace

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ah, no, Christ died for my sin, and just like the prophets earlier, who are you btw, you should be able to refer these to actual events in your life, i was the lying prophet in this situation, i was the unobservant prophet in that one, Christ i killed when i founded the world, and i actually even barely remember a memory of a memory of that now, but you can too, the day you first looked in a mirror...differently, that unresolved blob that you literally could not see before suddenly resolved and your world...founded. You ate from the tree of knowledge basically, that day or very soon after. goes the theory. that i just made up, ok lol
wanna google it and see? its in there, everything is in there, things you will never have the vocabulary to even request a look at, how trippy is that? you can search snips of that up there and enter a whole new world. might have to rephrase them i guess. there's some scientific term youll stumbleupon, "cortical recall of the pre-self-consciousness threshold" or something like that, but i just made most of that up, also i recall some pop search getting in the way, something about babies, hard to filter out.

"it's all in your head" in an extremely fundamental way, but getting there! ha!

So you say Christ died for your sin, but you also say we can only suspect things and that once they become a belief, we are toast, so...trying to understand you here.
 
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bbyrd009

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So you say Christ died for your sin, but you also say we can only suspect things and that once they become a belief, we are toast, so...trying to understand you here.
well, at this "i say we can only suspect things," now, in the moment, on the scene, irl, completely diff story ok. Than saying "this is that, and that is this" (in stone iow) with your mouth for general consumption as a like rule or law, "of course" or "without question" or "this proves that," any of that stuff.

i say Christ died for my sin bc i observed when i put Christ aside for the world, i dint leave it amorphous and indiscernable and general, bc i had to know i guess...which strikes me as an apt enough analogy, at least a working one? ya, ya

and this does not clash with any Scripture that i am aware of, which is the only test imo
 
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stunnedbygrace

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i say Christ died for my sin bc i observed when i put Christ aside for the world, i dint leave it amorphous and indiscernable and general, bc i had to know i guess...which strikes me as an apt enough analogy, at least a working one? ya, ya

and this does not clash with any Scripture that i am aware of, which is the only test imo

But aren't you testifying of yourself, as you said I was doing, when I said I had met God, been given the Holy Spirit, and communed with Him?

Yet I had verses to back up my testimony and you insisted I was still only testifying of myself, despite the testimony of the word.

And now, you testify of yourself that you put Christ aside for the world and say you are not aware of any verses that clash with your testimony.

You could say you are a rooster and not a man, and you also would not find any verses that clash with that.

So...not understanding you...
 

atpollard

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John 3:36... He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
If Double Predestination and Romans 9:20-24 is true, then “he who does not obey” was never able to “believe” in the Son, so as John 3:18 says ... he is already judged for his evil deeds.
 

Nancy

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ok crap i'm sure chatty today lol, and i guess cloistering now, everybodys calling bye have fun with the fireworks yall!
Not me Mark. I HATE the things. It is already ridiculous with VERY loud "Cherry Bombs" here (in my hood) and it's not even dark out yet. I can only surmise what might be going on in the minds of those with PTSD from the war. I will ask my nephew how he handles it...
I have 3 mini schnauzers all surrounding me on my bed...air cond. going loud (but not nearly loud enough), my one is a puppy mill rescue and is in her Thunder shirt and cannot get close enough to me, shaking and panting continually. So, needless to say, I have gone no where to watch fireworks or even left my home on the 4th of July for 6 years now. It's all good. :)
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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NO THEY'RE NOT FAROUK.

Unfortunately, I just don't feel like it right now.
But I'll give you this one: (and I've got pages of 'em)
Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

How can Paul know who is saved and who is not--in advance? He and the Apostle John both say that the fact that certain members of congregations did not continue in the faith, proves that they weren't believers to begin with.
(See 1 John 2:19 for an example, just off the top of my head)


And since you're in the letter to the Romans,
let me post this verse:

Romans 11:21-22
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
What is Paul writing about in Romans 11? He is writing about the salvation of the nation of Israel and how God chopped their branches (note the plural reference) off His tree. He is, in essence, telling the Gentiles to avoid lording it over the Jews because God could chop their branches off as well. I believe "Replacement Theology" is offensive to God, for that reason. The largely Gentile Church has NOT replaced Israel.

Paul speaks of those who fell....
So I'd say it's possible to fall.
If He lets them fall, they were never His.


Perhaps you'd like to read something JESUS said:

Mathew 23:13 and
Remember who is being addressed here--"teachers of religious law" and Pharisees. One would hope that wouldn't include His current followers in the Church.

Mathew 25:45-46
45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Why shout "JESUS" at anyone? Do you really think that any of us ignore what He said? What He said is in total harmony with what the Apostles wrote--do you think that it isn't? Do you believe that anyone who truly belongs to Jesus would turn his/her back on someone who is hungry or thirsty or be inhospitable to strangers? The Body of Christ has been at the forefront of every movement to better the lot of mankind, down through the centuries. Unbelievers like to tout the "Enlightenment" but the improvement in the plight of man was begun by those who were truly in the Body of Christ, long before any so-called "Enlightenment".
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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I'm sorry to hear about your nephew :( Such a powerful thing, prayer. I will also pray, now that your nephew remember his "first love".

Not sure that he ever had a "first love". Apparently, he and his parents believe that he was saved when they had him baptized as an infant. :(
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Not me Mark. I HATE the things. It is already ridiculous with VERY loud "Cherry Bombs" here (in my hood) and it's not even dark out yet. I can only surmise what might be going on in the minds of those with PTSD from the war. I will ask my nephew how he handles it...
I have 3 mini schnauzers all surrounding me on my bed...air cond. going loud (but not nearly loud enough), my one is a puppy mill rescue and is in her Thunder shirt and cannot get close enough to me, shaking and panting continually. So, needless to say, I have gone no where to watch fireworks or even left my home on the 4th of July for 6 years now. It's all good. :)

Poor babies. Get your computer and turn up the speakers all the way, play music or something. Turn on fans, whatever you have to make noise.
 
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Nancy

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Poor babies. Get your computer and turn up the speakers all the way, play music or something. Turn on fans, whatever you have to make noise.
I have the boom box loud and that does not cover the booms. I expected this, lol. She will be fine. God's got her ♥
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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You've done it again.
If you don't care what I say to you....it means you have NO VALUE for my comments. This is an insult.

why do you write to me then?
Not an insult at all--you apparently did not understand what I was saying--my apologies if I was not clear. Just because I don't care what you say about me doesn't mean that I don't care about what you have to say at all. You have jumped to conclusions. I thought we were having a theological discussion.


Are you upset because you think I'm boasting?
If someone states something true...it's not boasting..it's just stating something.
I NEVER said I was a bible teacher,,AND YOU'RE REPEATING IT AGAIN, after I've already told you once I never said this.
My mistake if you did not say this, but perhaps I am remembering someone else. You did say, did you not, that you taught new believers?

Yes. I have taught new Christians.
You're not impressed? Gee. How will I ever sleep tonight?
Does that not make you a Bible teacher? I said nothing about myself in that interchange--why do you feel it necessary to make up something I did not say, and then give a sarcastic response?

And you ask if God is impressed?
Yes--I asked it because I was actually interested in what you would say.

Do you realize, like many here that don't, that speaking words from the bible is SERIOUS BUSINESS. James 3:1
I had to be very careful of each word I said.
I had to be sure I was NOT teaching incorrect doctrine or heresy.
Did you know that here's no real way to teach the Trinity?
Any way you try to teach it will end up in heresy.
What heresy you may ask? That would make a nice study.
There's more than one.
Yes--I am well aware of that.

And it's not very nice to call a person IGNORANT.
You ARE ignorant. So am I. Neither of us has exhausted all that Christ would teach us through His Holy Spirit.


How can you know me by what I say here, if you think I'm boasting at times?
The word "boast" never went past the end of my fingers.
Am I supposed to censor myself for YOUR benefit?
Perhaps you would do it for Jesus?

You can tell youself to go study the bible,,,but you can't tell me that.
Why not? As one member of the Body to another, I am honestly concerned for your growth as I would care about it for myself and others here.
You don't know if I've ever studied it or not and for how long and to what degree.
True, but as a general rule, I know that no one has "arrived" until they arrive in heaven.
I've told persons to study up on something they seem to know nothing about...but not to person who seem to have a doctrine under their belt.
But, the problem is that I don't think you have this particular matter right.
It's DEMEANING to reply to me that I should study the bible,,, exactly because you don't know me.
You probably care too much about that sort of thing. Galatians 1:10

And I don't have all knowledge and I've said this. I know very little about eschatology...but what I know, I know.
But what if I disagree on what you think you know?


AGAIN! Another insult.
You think I don't know what a hypocrite is?
Just an observation.

what should anyone assume?
If you think we DO have to obey God,,,why are you debating me?
I don't think we HAVE to--I think we want to. Do you really think that God is pleased when He asks, "Do you love Me?" and we respond, "It is my duty to love you."? Think of how you would feel if your husband said that to you?

1. Paddles don't work.
2. By the age of five the character is already formed.
I actually agree with you about paddling. But that is for another discussion another day.

As I've requested...IF you post to me,,,it should be about scripture...
NOT personal remarks...
AS THIS ENTIRE POST WAS.
LOLOLOL Forgive me, but that also amused me.
 

Grailhunter

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Not an insult at all--you apparently did not understand what I was saying--my apologies if I was not clear. Just because I don't care what you say about me doesn't mean that I don't care about what you have to say at all. You have jumped to conclusions. I thought we were having a theological discussion.


My mistake if you did not say this, but perhaps I am remembering someone else. You did say, did you not, that you taught new believers?

Does that not make you a Bible teacher? I said nothing about myself in that interchange--why do you feel it necessary to make up something I did not say, and then give a sarcastic response?

Yes--I asked it because I was actually interested in what you would say.

Yes--I am well aware of that.

You ARE ignorant. So am I. Neither of us has exhausted all that Christ would teach us through His Holy Spirit.


The word "boast" never went past the end of my fingers.
Perhaps you would do it for Jesus?

Why not? As one member of the Body to another, I am honestly concerned for your growth as I would care about it for myself and others here.
True, but as a general rule, I know that no one has "arrived" until they arrive in heaven.
But, the problem is that I don't think you have this particular matter right.
You probably care too much about that sort of thing. Galatians 1:10

But what if I disagree on what you think you know?


Just an observation.

I don't think we HAVE to--I think we want to. Do you really think that God is pleased when He asks, "Do you love Me?" and we respond, "It is my duty to love you."? Think of how you would feel if your husband said that to you?

I actually agree with you about paddling. But that is for another discussion another day.

LOLOLOL Forgive me, but that also amused me.

Ok, my knees are already getting sore.
 
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brakelite

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There are so many nuances to our understanding of salvation and the Christian walk. Are any two of the twenty or more members who have commented on this thread in agreement on everything? Can any one of us say definitively that we completely understand what another understands and thus be in a position to criticise? This forum concept is so deficient, particularly for those who can't, or choose not to articulate themselves in a manner that anyone can say...aaah, now I know what you mean.
I struggle to know completely where you guys stand on certain topics. There are so many questions I could ask, affirm, clarify, that are impossible to present on a thread that in just a few days had stretched to nearly 50 pages. Clearly a topic we all care passionately about. And yet so little agreement between us. And this on a topic that involves all of the most fundamental aspects of the Christian life. Our relationship to God, His law, His authority, and our ultimate destiny. What hope have we if we can't get those right? And that's where grace comes in.
All the above being said, I do think we are confused over one particular aspect of the whole deal. We incorrectly I believe confuse justification with salvation. While justification through the sacrifice of Christ is essential, it is but the first step in a process, a process that we can opt out of at any time, or through distraction, disbelief, laziness, presumption, delusion,, and/or deception, be cut off from the Vine in much the same way as the natural branches were.
But hey, if we all disagree on certain points, not everyone can be right, right? And that includes me. Can anyone be "right"? Platforms such as forums lend themselves to misunderstanding and confusion. Yet they also lend themselves to greater appreciation for our humanness and frailty. Gotta love it. And each other.
 

justbyfaith

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I've told persons to study up on something they seem to know nothing about...but not to person who seem to have a doctrine under their belt.
It's DEMEANING to reply to me that I should study the bible,,, exactly because you don't know me.
I'm sorry to tell you that you do not have doctrine under your belt.
.
.
.
Yes. I have taught new Christians.

WHERE did I say I teach bible study?

What did you teach them if it wasn't the Bible?
 
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