Please explain this.

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bbyrd009

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Hey bb,
Not only do I blame ANYONE that takes ADVANTAGE of a young person..incl
a president we all remember....

but priests even more....THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
I mean, if you can't trust a priest, who can you trust?

He's just a man, you may say.
Fine. Then don't become a priest...since the rules are known prior to.
ok i dont disagree with your feelings here, and i would say that while my last answer is still valid enough imo, taking advantage of an eight year old--who could still sing out to his parents, right, if he wanted to, at least theoretically, although i am not blind to the realities there, either; although they actually would help me make my case evenf urther, a kid who did not have enough confidence instilled in him by that age to speak up to his parents--but anyway, imo that landscape changes considerably when we are talking about a 14 year old boy who is possibly even old enough to kick the priest in his jewels if he wanted, only his misplaced respect for authority--world, iow--or his nascent sexual curiosity--world again-- has prevented him from doing so, yeh?

See we are talking about a kid would likely moan up a storm if he had to wear a certain outfit to "church," right, and i dont mean to excuse the authority figure abusing his authority here, but what i see happening is by and large--not in every case, likely many exceptions, but--a witch-hunt for priests now, based around a very emotional hot-button issue bc the adults are all in denial about their "college years" anyway?

See we read "homosexuals" in the Bible and automatically accept that as Gospel, when i'm pretty sure homosexuality was not listed among the sins of Sodom. Our scribes have supplied a grossly inadequate word imo, and i wouldnt mind exploring this in a diff thread even, where my position will be that "bed-man" or "hedonist" or even "pleasure-seeker" might be much more apt.

As to the "priest" who may not really be a priest at all, we Read that they should be married and have demonstrated temperance, and if a parent wants to take their fam to a cong that encourages cloistered men who are not married and cannot marry as "priests," then who's to blame here. Blame anyone you like, blame the "priest" if you like, but imo the writing was plainly on the wall, way, way back.

Also imo Protestant "authority" figures seem to have it just as bad, gee, how about we just what is the phrase dang brb...ah, abolishes all rule and all authority and power, ya, how bout we do that, instead of letting PSs teach our kids how to roll over and show their guts to cops, like they are actively doing here in Amurrica right now. imo.

See, at the end of the day someone got put between someone else and Christ, yeh? And if the parents instilled this, then as hard as it is we have to also understand how perfectly reap what they sow the whole scenario becomes?
 

justbyfaith

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Can we agree that as born again believers we obey God and wish to do what He would want us to do and not proclaim to new Christians that it's not necessary to obey God?
We cannot; because it is not exactly accurate to what the scriptures teach.

For the scriptures teach that we are not under the law, are dead to the law, and are delivered from the law. Therefore, our obligation to obey the Lord, which is wrapped up in the law, is put away through the sacrifice of Christ.

Our new motivation to obey God is His love abiding in our hearts.

I would say that if someone does not obey Him as a general rule, that it is a sign that they do not love Him and therefore have not been regenerated by faith.

But if God requires us to obey Him, then there would be condemnation for the believer every time we disobey Him. And I just don't see that in the scriptures. I see a God who has forgiven us of past, present, and future sin(s). Romans 4:7-8, Romans 8:37-39, Hebrews 9:12.

Also, I would say that I rarely tell new Christians, if ever, that it isn't necessary to obey God. But I will never tell them of an obligation as a believer to do the same. It is simply not the teaching of the holy scriptures.
 
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GodsGrace

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hmm, not sure why that brought to mind this for you, have to check that out tonight if i can.
as to your Q, How to find out what exactly, sorry?
NOTHING BB!
I wrote to you that your verses were the ONLY ONES...I already checked.

SLEEP TIGHT!
 
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bbyrd009

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i'm sure my feelings about the RCC are fairly clear, but lemme tell you if i was the RCCs lawyer them parents would stilll be fighting for the first dime. Now i would also completely trash the RCC model in the process, and expose it for what it is, but at least they would still have their money, which i mean cmon the aesthetic bishop, who can find him right
 

GodsGrace

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To you, what is the nature of everlasting life? Is it possible for everlasting life to ever come to an end? If so, how is it everlasting?
Right now we DO NOT have everlasting life.
Our everlasting life begins here.
This is the same principle that Jesus taught that our life in heaven begins
here in the earthly Kingdom. Jesus spoke mainly about this Kingdom.
About 100X vs 4 or 5 about salvation. check it out...it's true.

We WILL receive our everlasting life after death at which point we become a spirit and will never die again.

If we have everlasting life or death depends on what we do not.

What we should be doing is BELIEVING in JESUS....
remaining IN CHRIST...as so many verses state...
and we will be safe and secure.

See Philippinas 3:11-13 The promise has not yet been attained.
See John 8:31 Jesus said: IF we CONTINUE in His word.
See 1 John 2:28 We are to abide in Him so as not to be ashamed when

He returns.


and many other verses.



My exegesis:
If someone wanders away from the truth, they had only mental assent to the tenets of the gospel and did not have a heart faith that is unto righteousness.[/QUOTE]
 

bbyrd009

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The works of Jesus Christ on the Cross and rising from the grave. The works of the Great High Priest and the perfect propitiation of the Lamb of God.

Soli Deo Gloria!
italics no son of man may die for another's sins; The soul that sins Will die.

So that will get you all the way to Nehushtan, ok bro?
Soli Deo Gloria!
and supercalifragilisticexpialidocious to you you too!
 

bbyrd009

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Since when do we trust the words of witches and demons to speak the truth?
I would say this is a good point, and we might even explore it, but in my opinion the wording in the Bible is not really going to allow for that interpretation? I know it's The standard go to, but look at the slippery slope you're now on, the Bible can basically lie to us now, by that interpretation?

12When the woman saw Samuel, she screamed, and then she asked Saul, "Why did you deceive me? You are Saul!"

did the woman see Samuel or not?
 

bbyrd009

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I wanted to do what He asked.

So both before and after SALVATION, I was free do do whatever I wanted ... it was “what I wanted” that changed.
WADR this is a standard reply also, and we might easily test it due to the fact that Jesus left us very specific instructions for what he wanted his followers to do, yeah? First for the 70 and then for the 12 correct? no offense meant here OK, but talk to me about your desire to do those if you will, thank you
When God chose me
"God's" choice is that all come to salvation, and I sure can't figure out why iPad doesn't want to capitalize that LOL. I mean let's not forget that we travel land and Sea to make one convert and then turn them into twice the sons of hell we are OK
 

bbyrd009

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We cannot; because it is not exactly accurate to what the scriptures teach.

For the scriptures teach that we are not under the law, are dead to the law, and are delivered from the law. Therefore, our obligation to obey the Lord, which is wrapped up in the law, is put away through the sacrifice of Christ.

Our new motivation to obey God is His love abiding in our hearts.

I would say that if someone does not obey Him as a general rule, that it is a sign that they do not love Him and therefore have not been regenerated by faith.

But if God requires us to obey Him, then there would be condemnation for the believer every time we disobey Him. And I just don't see that in the scriptures. I see a God who has forgiven us of past, present, and future sin(s). Romans 4:7-8, Romans 8:37-39, Hebrews 9:12.

Also, I would say that I rarely tell new Christians, if ever, that it isn't necessary to obey God. But I will never tell them of an obligation as a believer to do the same. It is simply not the teaching of the holy scriptures.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.
Romans 2:6 God "will repay each one according to his deeds."
just thought I'd post those again so you could ignore them again have a nice evening
 

Lady Crosstalk

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Of course I agree with everything you've stated
EXCEPT re eternal security.

The N.T. is chock full of verses that show we have conditional eternal security.
It's conditional on being IN CHRIST. We have to NOT LEAVE CHRIST.
If we are IN CHRIST we are saved...if we are NOT IN CHRIST, we are not saved.
No matter WHEN that may happen.
Just read John 15:1-6 and tell me it doesn't mean that we can be removed from the vine and gathered and done away with.

No--eternal life is never conditional upon behavior--but salvation IS. That is why the expression, "once saved, always saved" is misleading. If that seems utterly confusing to you, hang on--I will explain. "Salvation" and the salvation word family, in the Old Testament and even, the New Testament almost never refers to eternal life. That is probably why Jesus doesn't mention salvation except in a few instances and it is not clear, at times, whether He is speaking of salvation or eternal life. The two are NOT synonymous--the word salvation basically means "deliverance" whereas, eternal life is just that. Deliverance from what? Danger, sickness, premature death, accidents, and various calamities. In Luke 19, when Jesus says that "today salvation has come" to the house of Zacchaeus, it is not clear whether He is speaking of Zacchaeus' mortal life being saved or eternal life having been conferred upon him. As a result of Zacchaeus' promise to quit extorting money from the Jews (and compensating those he cheated) it may have only meant that he wouldn't be knocked off by the Zealots who were always lurking about, for example.

A NOTE about the Zealots: The Zealots were Jews who were extremely resentful of their Roman overlords and particularly those Jews who were put in positions like tax collector. Zacchaeus (many Jews took on Greek names in order to ingratiate themselves with the Romans--his given name was probably Zachariah) was a Jew (Jesus calls him a "son of Abraham" in Luke 19:9). If so, he was not only a sell-out to the Romans but one who cheated other Jews (by his own admission). He would have been a prime target of the Zealots' more radical group, who called themselves "Sicarii" for "dagger men". The Sicarii had the nasty custom of slipping into a crowd, and using a razor-sharp dagger to slit open the belly (disemboweling) of a Jewish target (a certain, slow and agonizing death, in those days). The assassin might even procure a bag of money off his victim, if the victim was in one of the marketplaces--which were always crowded. Jostling from the crowd was a given. The assassin would then melt back into the crowd--before the Romans even got wind of it, and often precious moments before the target even knew he had been attacked--giving the assassin time to get away. Roman officials were much harder to assassinate, in that way, as they were always surrounded by Roman soldiers when out and about in Judea. The Sicarii were often hesitant to attack a Roman for another reason--the Romans might extract severe penalties from the Jews for such an act. The Romans didn't particularly care if the Jews killed each other, as long as order was not disturbed. A Jewish tax collector was easily replaced by the Romans.

Zacchaeus may well have saved himself (along with his whole house, since he was the "wage-earner") from the Sicarii, by his pledge to "clean up his act". Salvation is almost always conditional--God says, "Do these things and you will live." Even in the Epistles, we see the difference between salvation and the conferral of eternal life, upon close examination.

Salvation was/is conditional on living a "clean life" (being "blameless" is the way that the OT puts it) and, in the Old Testament, in particular, it referred to having one's mortal life saved. Thus, Noah and his family were "saved"--from the flood waters. But the ark that God ordered him to build had nothing to do with preserving Noah in the afterlife--i.e. it did NOT furnish him with eternal life.

In the history of Israel, it was taken for granted that, as those chosen by Yahweh, their souls would "join their fathers" who had gone to the Edenic paradise that God provided, and their spirits would return to God from whom they came. All would be reunited in resurrection on the Last Day. Thus, we see Job declaring in Job 19:26-27, "...after my body has decayed, yet in my body, I will see God. I will see Him for myself. Yes, I will see Him with my own eyes." Job is thought to be the oldest book in the Bible.

In both the Old and New Testament, salvation nearly always has conditions attached. Or, as some pastors have warned, "Choose to sin, choose to suffer." Sin has negative consequences in this life. "Honor your father and mother, so that your days will be long in the Land." In our modern times, murderers will be jailed for years and might even be executed, thieves are jailed, drunks may be killed in a car crash etc. God might choose to "save" us from the negative consequences of our sinful behavior; often, He does not. But it is important to remember that it could have nothing to do with one's eternal destiny. James 1:21 is seen in context to be saying that one would save one's life from premature death by refraining from sin. See also James 5:20 in that vein. James tells us to get rid of sin and be "doers of the word" to stay under God's protection from calamity and avoid the destructive effects of sin in this life. Sin also destroys our witness.

Let's look at 1 Peter 3:21. Here, Peter seems to be telling us that water baptism is important to gain eternal life. Instead, he is more likely saying that the public declaration that goes with baptism, that one intends to live for Christ--would keep us from flagrant sin that would carry us away into the flood waters of sin. Baptism of course, does NOT confer eternal life--but it might reflect an internal reality of belief and it is that belief that causes the more important baptism of the Holy Spirit (being born again from on high) that does confer eternal life. When we submit to the waters of baptism, we are telling the spirit world that we are no longer slaves to sin--that we are, in fact, dead to sin--and that we intend to live in the light which the Father and His Son provide. Interestingly, when I have done pre-baptismal counseling, many counselees have reported that they strongly felt the evil forces trying to prevent them from being baptized and making their public declaration of faith. It is my experience that some of the most powerful testimonies of faith are presented at believers' baptisms.

Finally, let's look at 1 Timothy 4:16. On first glance, it appears that the Apostle Paul is saying that our eternal life is dependent on a concentrated effort to avoid sin and have the proper doctrine. Instead, I think that Paul was telling Timothy that leaders in the churches must display the kind of behavior that their parishioners would respect and that proper teaching is important toward the faith that will not only lead to eternal life but save them from calamity in this life as well. The tragedy of the Christian man I spoke of before is that he came from a very legalistic ("holiness movement") church, and that bad teaching was part of the destruction of his life.


Many don't understand God's love ... no one is "good enough" for God.
Exactly.

Because persons misunderstand God is no reason to build a theology around THEIR misunderstandings.
No, it is not, but there are whole lots of Christians who believe that their eternal life is dependent on them maintaining it with good works. Again I ask, how many good works does one have to perform to keep his/her eternal life intact? Eternal Security means that once we have eternal life, NOTHING will remove it. Depending on how one lives his/her life, we may have sincere regret at the Bema seat because of lost opportunities to tell others about Jesus (in word and deed), but, it is important to remember that we will still be in heaven with Our Lord.

I had a priest I know tell me some years ago that persons that commit suicide are doomed. By the time I got thru with him, he had to agree with me and told me I was right. I told him I don't care to hear the magesterium version but the CORRECT VERSION of our faith. Anyway, depression makes persons understand things in different and incorrect ways.
That is undoubtedly true. Suicide is against the natural urge for self-preservation and self-love. Self-loathing is from the evil one and I am convinced that it comes from living with constant shame. The only remedy for shame is to resist the evil one who wants to keep us immobilized by it, and to come to the One who can heal us from its wounds. I pray that all who are considering suicide would do so and discover that He is a wonderful Savior.
 
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