I was not referring to you, but others. And the Muslims will claim that Allah is the one true God no matter what you say.I do not deny the Holy Trinity.
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I was not referring to you, but others. And the Muslims will claim that Allah is the one true God no matter what you say.I do not deny the Holy Trinity.
Wow Oz, the scriptures just spoke to you and they said they do not agree with me? How amusing. At least get off your pedestal and admit you do not agree with me and stop hiding behind scripture you do not understand. And have the courtesy to say why you disagree with me? Maybe you cannot go beyond just writing down their chapter and verse?APAK,
This verse and others in the NT do not agree with your statement that Jesus 'has a God'.
God, the Son, is regarded as God. He has the attributes of deity:
(1) Eternity (Jn 1:15; 8:58; 17:5, 24);
(2) Omniscience (Jn 2:24-25; 16:30; 21:17);
(3) Omnipresence (Mt 18:20; 28:20; Jn 3:13);
(4) Omnipotence. ‘I am the Almighty’ (Rev 1:8; Heb 1:3; Mt 28:18);
(5) Immutable (Heb 1:12; 13:8);
(6) He does the actions of deity: creator (Jn 1:3; Heb 1:10; Col 1:16); holds things together (Col 1:17; Heb 1:3); forgives sin (Mt 9:2, 6); raises the dead (Jn 6:39-40, 54; 11:25; 20:25, 28); he will be the Judge (Jn 5:22) of believers (2 Cor 5:10), of Antichrist and his followers (Rev 19:15), the nations (Ac 17:31), Satan (Gen 3:15) and the living and the dead (Ac 10:42) (taken from Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?)
Oz
Yes they will, and the kaba or the black cube in Mecca is a symbol of Saturn.I was not referring to you, but others. And the Muslims will claim that Allah is the one true God no matter what you say.
I am a 5 point Calvinist and a non-Cessatioist and a Credobaptist.No one owns up to anything. Just check his posts.
no try, FACT.Nice try, but that's not what these two verses teach. Isaiah 44:24 (ESV) states:
'Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
who formed you from the womb:
“I am the Lord, who made all things,
who alone stretched out the heavens,
who spread out the earth by myself....
According to Isa 47:4 (ESV), ‘Our Redeemer—the Lord of hosts is his name—is the Holy One of Israel’. The Lord of hosts is YHWH'.
How you get John 1:3 to agree with Isa 44:24 seems to be Scripture twisting for your own agenda.
Did you know that the Quran claims that the Ka'aba was built by Abraham and Ishmael in Mecca? Of course it is idolatrous, and Muslims believe that their salvation rests partly on their Hajj to the Ka'aba (as per the Quran).Yes they will, and the kaba or the black cube in Mecca is a symbol of Saturn.
Yes I know that, Mohamed was also a pedophile, he married Ayisha his wife at the age of 9 I believe, some really sick stuff! I’ve read plenty about Mohamed. How he wanted to he accepted as a prophet by the Jews and Christians and when they turned him away is when he started his own religion, and his hatred of the Jews and Christians.Did you know that the Quran claims that the Ka'aba was built by Abraham and Ishmael in Mecca? Of course it is idolatrous, and Muslims believe that their salvation rests partly on their Hajj to the Ka'aba (as per the Quran).
Wow Oz, the scriptures just spoke to you and they said they do not agree with me? How amusing. At least get off your pedestal and admit you do not agree with me and stop hiding behind scripture you do not understand. And have the courtesy to say why you disagree with me? Maybe you cannot go beyond just writing down their chapter and verse?
And I see it, you are the typical Trinitarian that spills out scripture for others to hunt down and explain, without any desire on your part to show your work of understanding them. Quite insulting if you do not mind me saying so; as if I have something to prove to you and not the other way around. I believe you have to prove these verses to me, right?
Nevertheless, let me at least look at your first verse – John 1:15. to show my case...
(Joh 1:15) John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. (KJV)
(Joh 1:15) (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”)(ESV)
(Joh 1:15) John testifies of him and cries out, saying: This was he of whom I said: He that comes after me is ranked above me! For he was senior to me.(NEV)
This is a typical verse used by Trinitarians to show their Christ is the deity YHWH. They assume that for Jesus to come ‘before’ John he would have existed ‘before’ John. The Greek word ‘before’ (transliterated Greek - protos) can definitely mean ‘before’ as in time, it can also equally mean ‘first,’ ‘chief,’ ‘leader,’ premier etc.
For example, the ‘first’ commandment was not the first given in time, but the first given in rank. There are several examples of this use of ‘protos’ in scripture, including: Matt. 20:27; 22:38; Mark 6:21; 10:44; Luke 11:26.
Also look at John 3:28 carefully.
(Joh 3:28) Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. (KJV)
You see this verse corroborates that John the Baptist meant that Jesus was the Christ, he was much more significant in rank and purpose that he, as the Son of YHWH, even though John B. was sent first. Remember the same word and meaning of ‘protos’ as used in John 1:15?
Also look at John 1:30 carefully.
(Joh 1:30) This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. (KJV)
Now John the Baptist is speaking of a human being, a man, that is preferred over him as another human being…
Now do you then think that Jesus the man, pre-existed as a man before he was born? Because that is the only option of thought if you think ‘protos’ means before as in time. Of course, it would be a ridiculous conclusion, right?
Jesus did not exist prior to John. Jesus was born roughly 6 months after John the Baptist (Luke 1:26). This clearly demonstrates that John was certainly not making any references to a pre-existent divine Jesus.
Do you have any corroborating verses for your meaning? I thought not! I already have two verses that support John 1:15 that says with confidence that ‘protos’ means senior or higher in rank or status.
I think that is sufficient…
BL: John the Baptist recognized that Jesus was above him in rank and significance from his view and of YHWH. John clearly never thought that Jesus pre-existed before his birth, months after his own. That would be a very odd thought of John the Baptist indeed, especially when he was just preaching about the Lamb of YHWH and where the other John the gospel reporter just said Jesus was born a man by his Father, in the previous verse. There was no announcement of a pre-existent divine Jesus or God incarnate in this context and section of scripture or anywhere in scripture for that matter.
Look Oz, I can continue and comment on all your misapplied scripture you have provided me, as your erroneous support for your beliefs. I have no problem in doing so. I also have to warn you that if I continue, I will be exposing your lack of concern and depth in understanding scripture and blindly ignoring their context.
Bless you,
APAK
If you are going to make a case from the OT that the Bible is sealed, shouldn’t you then exclude the NT?To all my trinitarian friends out there. understand, the bible, the Holy Book, is Spiritual and it is SEALED to the Learned and the unlearned. supportive scriptures,
Isaiah 29:10 "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isaiah 29:13 "Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
but if one have the Holy Ghost who is the seal breaker, he will teach you ALL THINGS. yes, including the Godhead.
Now the term "FATHER" which have been misunderstood for years. but now, revealed to some. scripture,
listen, and follow us. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he". the same person only diversified in flesh. understand the "First" here is the Spirit, the one whom is called the FATHER. he, the term "Father" means, "FIRST" the Source, the Beginning, the alpha, the "ROOT". the FIRST is the LAST, the same person, only diversified in flesh. so when God said he was "WITH" me, it's he him without diversity. are you really understanding? listen, Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure". the "end from the beginning?" let's turn this around for clarity. Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty". see it now?. the Son, the "END", the omega, the Offspring, the diversity, the "LAST", as in Adam.
so we have the Father = "FIRST", the "Beginning. and the Son ="LAST", the End. now watch this verse. remember the First is "WITH" the Last, right, now this. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
the "First", the Father, the "Beginning" is "ALSO" the Son, the "Last", the End. just as Deuteronomy 10:17 states, "For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward".
The LORD, the First = the Father, the "Beginning". The Lord, the Last = Son, the "Ending". how plain can one get. the first is "ALSO" the Last, the same person.
if one cannot see the revelation, then the scriptures are true. Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
PICJAG.
let us put it this way. the OT is the NT hidden, and the NT is the OT Revealed. got me?. ....If you are going to make a case from the OT that the Bible is sealed, shouldn’t you then exclude the NT?
no try, FACT.
Psalms 19:14 "Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
so Oz you have two separate and distinct redeemers?. you are in ERROR, WRONG. the bible disagree with you.
now your ESV.
English Standard Version
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O LORD, my rock and my redeemer.
BUSTED, the LORD is the REDEEMER and he's the Lord of Hosts.
Isaiah 1:24 "Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies".
see, you been decieved by the evil one.
as for Isaiah 44:6 let's get it right, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". the "LORD" of host is YHWH, as well as the "Lord", who is the same person. His Redeemer is speaking of Jacob/Israel, just go back to verse 1 and read to verse 6. the "LORD" is the "Lord" diversified in flesh, the same person. the title "Father" simply means FIRST. and the title "Son" simply means LAST. the First/Father and the Last/Son is the Same PERSON. if you think I'm in error, see Isaiah 48:12.
here is your problem,
2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
God didn't send the lie, which men made by their father the devil. God only sent the delusion, which means, an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder. ONE NEED TO READ WHAT A DELUSION IS AGAIN. maintain the lie of the trinity. when the bible, just as you have seen above, tell you that there is no trinity.
you use the term "twisted the scriptures" that's a delusion. any excuse is a delusion. so when many say oh the Godhead is a mystery, ERROR, for it is not a mystery, listen. Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
YOU'RE WITHOUT EXCUSE.
once more what was made ... man ... an "another" of himself, the Woman the EQUAL in "share". THERE IS THE GODHEAD IN PLAIN SIGHT.
we suggest you get a KJV bible.
Deuteronomy 10:17 "For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward". here, this verse clearly tells us the LORD is the Lord, the same one God, the plurality of ONE PERSON.
Lastely, NO NEED TO RESPOND. I cannot prevent what God is doing, (see Psalms 110:1), by sending these "strong Delusions". only you can prevent it. by #1. REPENTING, and #2. RE-NEWING YOUR MIND. beside that, I cannot help you. so it's up to you the BELIEVER or not. for Isaiah is very correct, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?". who is really believing God or man. the only thing I can leave you with is Revelation 22:11.
PICJAG.
ok, what was born? son of God, or Son of Man? let's see. Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". now where did the Son of Man come from? John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 6:33 "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world". what do the Lord JESUS say? "I am the BREAD of Life". well that takes care of Galatians 4:4-5.101G,
Galatians 4:4-5 (ESV) answers the issue that you want to complicate: 'But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons'.
Oz
Either that or you easily fool yourself (while trying to fool others).this is too easy.
FALLACY #1. The Son is never bornsee oz, the Son is never "BORN". only the flesh, the Son of God is "BORN". the flesh is not the "EVERLASTING FATHER". what's in that Flesh is the EVERLASTING FATHER. and that which was in that flesh, is not BORN.
your FALLACY #2. Only the flesh, cancel out your FALLACY #1. The Son is never born, lol.Either that or you easily fool yourself (while trying to fool others).
FALLACY #1. The Son is never born
THE TRUTH: Jesus has been "the only begotten Son of God" from eternity. He was "the Word" from eternity.
FALLACY #2. Only the flesh
THE TRUTH: The ETERNAL Son of God took human form and was born on earth.
FALLACY # 3. The flesh is not the Everlasting Father
THE TRUTH: Jesus is in His glorious, resurrected, sinless, human body ("the flesh") for all eternity, and He is also"the Everlasting Father" as that relates to the children of God.
FALLACY #4. That which was in that flesh, is not BORN.
THE TRUTH: Christ was born of Mary in a sinless human body ("the flesh")
Not only are you THOROUGHLY CONFUSED, but you have been trying to mislead everyone else for a very long time. It is now time to abandon your false doctrines and believe what the Bible says.
Mmmmm according to my Bible Jesus is the Son of God. Who is that God He is the Son of?
So how do you reconcile this...
KJV John 17
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Your teaching that God the Father is only a title that signifies FIRST is not what Scripture teaches.
The Father is a person who has attributes of personhood:
.
.
.
We can pursue similar attributes of personhood for the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is the Son of God indeed.
FALLACY #1. The Son is never born
THE TRUTH: Jesus has been "the only begotten Son of God" from eternity. He was "the Word" from eternity.
FALLACY #2. Only the flesh
THE TRUTH: The ETERNAL Son of God took human form and was born on earth.
FALLACY # 3. The flesh is not the Everlasting Father
THE TRUTH: Jesus is in His glorious, resurrected, sinless, human body ("the flesh") for all eternity, and He is also"the Everlasting Father" as that relates to the children of God.
THE TRUTH: Christ was born of Mary in a sinless human body ("the flesh")
John 1:1 and many others.Scripture for this?
And that is obviously FALSE.I contend that Jesus was begotten in the incarnation, Luke 1:35.
Misapplication of Scripture does not count.
"Begotten" for Christ is not the same as human birth. That is an eternal Father-Son relationship (no mother involved). But He was INCARNATED when He was born of Mary. Do you understand the difference, and do you wish to understand the difference?I thought you said He was begotten (born) from eternity?
Scripture?And that is obviously FALSE.