Eternal Life is Promised to The Elect

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savedbygrace57

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titus 1:1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; God has before the Foundation of The world, promised eternal Life to Jesus christ and to His seed.This Life is and was and always has been in Jesus christ and promised to His seed in Him..1 jn 5:10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The record..greek:martyria:1) a testifyinga) the office committed to the prophets of testifying concerning future events2) what one testifies, testimony, i.e. before a judgeThis testimony is regarding the gospel eternal purpose paul refers to in 2 tim 1:8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 11Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. This purpose and grace given in Jesus christ [Gods Son] is pertaining to Eternal Life..Because of our election in Jesus christ, we [the elect] have been given eternal life..This Life is in Gods Son and we too in Him as seed..This ensures in time, that all the seed will actually partake of this Life eternal..This means we are heirs of salvation..heb 1:14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?rom 8:17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified togetherWhen were the children Joint heirs with Jesus christ..Lets Look at heb 2:13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; The children were given to Jesus christ before they and he took on flesh and blood..when did the children take on flesh and blood ?This was in adam..the children began their physical lives in flesh and blood as when they stood in adam in the beginning..Notice it says the children as in many and not child as in one..the point is all the election of grace were in the Loins of adam in His flesh and blood..and conversley so..all the election of grace was in The Lord Jesus christ when he took on flesh and blood, not all flesh and blood but a certain segment..The seed of abraham heb 2:16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of AbrahamThis is important to follow my presentation..because it was not all of abrahams seed in viewbut the children of promise were heirs of heavenLook at heb 11:8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: You see, heirs of the same promise, what promise ? remember titus 1:2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Its the promise of eternal life , a eternal Inheritance that abraham Isaach and Jacob were heirs of and Looked for..look here:vs 10 heb 11:10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. vs13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Not recieving the promises, but died in faith, belieivng in a eternal inheritance, eternal life as a promise..they confessed they were strangers and pilgrims of the earth, this indicates too that the promises they embraced from God was not of this earth..vs14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. They sought a country..not of this world, not a earthly inheritence..but vs15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. They sought a heavenly country.. this is eternal Life..This is what God promised abrahams seed..what seed ?Gal 3:16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. This seed.. as i began, the elect have been given and promised eternal life, for this promise is given to Jesus christ and His seed in Him..You see abraham, isaach and Jacob..never had eternal life offered to them..for their refusal or acceptance..but it had been revealed to them as it was to our Father abraham, we have been given a eternal inheritanceby promise..Gods promise..that cannot Lie..and His elect in all generations come to experience this eternal life in this life by their newbirth..It is a lie and deception of the devil today..to preach that eternal life is offered to all people every where and now its up to them to take it or refuse it..This teaching underminds and dishonors The promises of God, for He promised Eternal Life to a seed..and God cannot lie..Jesus christ is that seed as gal 3 16 reveals..and the church, in him by election, He as their head..True God exalting preaching is to proclaim eternal life is given to a seed, this eternal life belongs to all who have been elected in The Son of God.before the world began..1 jn 5:11And this is the record[testimony], that God hath given[ not offered] to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [by election
 

tim_from_pa

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I answered your post on the other forum.
biggrin.gif
 

tim_from_pa

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OK---- I'm back here now. You said to me,
You are teaching false too..True Israelites are spiritual..rom 2:28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
No, you just look at one side of the coin and minority scriptures like most mainliners do. There are Israelites of race and those of grace. The racial promises of Abraham include things like becoming a mighty nation, becoming many nations, an unbroken lineage of Kings, colonization with a massive population and so forth which do not require personal salvation. Those are national promises.However, it is God's intention that they'd be a light to the world showing God's Law and Kingdom and indeed are a type of it. Therefore, God would want them all to be saved as Paul wished. In the end when the Kingdom finally comes to earth, ultimately only those born of the Spirit makes it in.However, what I want to impress is that there is nothing spiritual only in the promises--- they include spiritual blessings but again they are national.The Israelites, specifically the tribe of Joseph has the birthright which is inherited by rights of birth. This is not false doctrine, but something I can back up with more scripture than carter has liver pills. I'd have to be either stupid or in denial to reject the notion that the birthright promises go to the people of the race, and that is what the bible teaches and a core foundation in it. Misunderstand that, and one basically misunderstands about 70% of the bible.
 

savedbygrace57

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(tim_from_pa;61174)
OK---- I'm back here now. You said to me, No, you just look at one side of the coin and minority scriptures like most mainliners do. There are Israelites of race and those of grace. The racial promises of Abraham include things like becoming a mighty nation, becoming many nations, an unbroken lineage of Kings, colonization with a massive population and so forth which do not require personal salvation. Those are national promises.However, it is God's intention that they'd be a light to the world showing God's Law and Kingdom and indeed are a type of it. Therefore, God would want them all to be saved as Paul wished. In the end when the Kingdom finally comes to earth, ultimately only those born of the Spirit makes it in.However, what I want to impress is that there is nothing spiritual only in the promises--- they include spiritual blessings but again they are national.The Israelites, specifically the tribe of Joseph has the birthright which is inherited by rights of birth. This is not false doctrine, but something I can back up with more scripture than carter has liver pills. I'd have to be either stupid or in denial to reject the notion that the birthright promises go to the people of the race, and that is what the bible teaches and a core foundation in it. Misunderstand that, and one basically misunderstands about 70% of the bible.
All the promises of God to Israel are fulfilled spitually in Jesus christ..rom 15:8Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: 2 cor 1: 20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.There is no more national covenant with national israel..sorry..
 

Jordan

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(savedbygrace57;61333)
(tim_from_pa;61174)
OK---- I'm back here now. You said to me, (savedbygrace57)
You are teaching false too..True Israelites are spiritual..rom 2:28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
No, you just look at one side of the coin and minority scriptures like most mainliners do. There are Israelites of race and those of grace. The racial promises of Abraham include things like becoming a mighty nation, becoming many nations, an unbroken lineage of Kings, colonization with a massive population and so forth which do not require personal salvation. Those are national promises.However, it is God's intention that they'd be a light to the world showing God's Law and Kingdom and indeed are a type of it. Therefore, God would want them all to be saved as Paul wished. In the end when the Kingdom finally comes to earth, ultimately only those born of the Spirit makes it in.However, what I want to impress is that there is nothing spiritual only in the promises--- they include spiritual blessings but again they are national.The Israelites, specifically the tribe of Joseph has the birthright which is inherited by rights of birth. This is not false doctrine, but something I can back up with more scripture than carter has liver pills. I'd have to be either stupid or in denial to reject the notion that the birthright promises go to the people of the race, and that is what the bible teaches and a core foundation in it. Misunderstand that, and one basically misunderstands about 70% of the bible.All the promises of God to Israel are fulfilled spitually in Jesus christ..rom 15:8Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: 2 cor 1: 20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.There is no more national covenant with national israel..sorry..You do realize that in order for Christ to come through, God needed a chosen race so that Christ can be born. Without a race, Christ will never be born. And without Christ being born, grace can not come forward. And without grace, we all will die in our sins period.So yes, Israel (Jocob) still exist. As the race still exist.
 

tim_from_pa

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(savedbygrace57;61333)
All the promises of God to Israel are fulfilled spitually in Jesus christ..rom 15:8Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: 2 cor 1: 20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.There is no more national covenant with national israel..sorry..
Nope, that's bunk. That is the dangerous doctrine of "replacement theology". Like I said---- seeing only one side of the coin.Pick up the coin and see there's another side. This replacement doctrine is only elemental theology.
 

tim_from_pa

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Yes, Christina, they will try and try to "open our eyes" failing to realize that we were already taught the things they believe and as we dug deeper found fault in that doctrine.I came from an Evangelical Congregational church well versed in the types of things presented above (i.e. Christ is the fulfillment of all the Abrahamic promises) but when I studied deeply I saw things like Genesis 35:11 for example that is not fulfilled by one person, and indeed cannot be. I dumped what I was taught for the truth. Or, as the younger generation says, 'Been there, Done that."If you notice, I always fire back Genesis 35:11 to them. In all these many years, I have YET to hear a plausible answer, and they usually song and dance around it like its not important.They fail to see the significance. I'll explain it forwardly. The Abrahamic Covenant points to Christ, but it also points to national promises and many seed. If one trashes the national part (as most replacement theologians do) they fail to realize they are trashing the Messianic part of the promises since they are all lumped together. In other words, if God cannot keep the national aspects of the promises, then He is under no obligation to keep the Messianic, either.However, that goes over them like a lead balloon. They may even be denser than lead. But they will continue to mouth off like they know what they are talking about when in fact, they create a Jesus of their imagination. And that Jesus saves no one!
 

Jordan

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Yes, Christina, they will try and try to "open our eyes" failing to realize that we were already taught the things they believe and as we dug deeper found fault in that doctrine.I came from an Evangelical Congregational church well versed in the types of things presented above (i.e. Christ is the fulfillment of all the Abrahamic promises) but when I studied deeply I saw things like Genesis 35:11 for example that is not fulfilled by one person, and indeed cannot be. I dumped what I was taught for the truth. Or, as the younger generation says, 'Been there, Done that."If you notice, I always fire back Genesis 35:11 to them. In all these many years, I have YET to hear a plausible answer, and they usually song and dance around it like its not important.They fail to see the significance. I'll explain it forwardly. The Abrahamic Covenant points to Christ, but it also points to national promises and many seed. If one trashes the national part (as most replacement theologians do) they fail to realize they are trashing the Messianic part of the promises since they are all lumped together. In other words, if God cannot keep the national aspects of the promises, then He is under no obligation to keep the Messianic, either.However, that goes over them like a lead balloon. They may even be denser than lead. But they will continue to mouth off like they know what they are talking about when in fact, they create a Jesus of their imagination. And that Jesus saves no one!
No kidding. Kings are plural. a nation (singular) and a company of nations (plural) ... So it can't be fulfilled by a single person. A single person is singular. And how can a single be plural?Use COMMON SENSE people.(Christina;61585)
yep I agree with Tim
x 2
 

logabe

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There are two parts to the birthright given to Adam in the beginning. They are the dominion mandate and the fruitfulness mandate. The dominion mandate is given in Gen. 1:26, 26 Then God said, Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule [Heb. radah, “to have dominion”] over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. The dominion mandate given to Adam did not give him any rules or advice that might help him to rule the earth properly. Since Adam was created in the image of God, proper world government was a given. But after Adam sinned and lost the glory of God, it was not long before the leaven of sin gave fallen man the idea that dominion meant enslaving others and forcing them to do the will of the rulers, regardless of what that might be. The second part of the birthright given to Adam was the fruitfulness mandate. We read of this later in Gen. 1:28, 28 And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it. The manner in which Jacob divided the dominion mandate from the fruitfulness mandate is told in the book of Genesis. In Gen. 37:3 we find the first hint that the birthright was given to Joseph, when Jacob gave him the sign of the birthright holder-a special robe: 3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his sons, because he was the son of his old age; and he made him a varicolored tunic. The actual transfer of the birthright, however, was later given to Joseph's sons, particularly Ephraim, whose name means "fruitfulness." His name was therefore prophetic of the fulfillment of the fruitfulness mandate, dating back to Gen. 1:28. When Jacob was old and about to die, he called for Joseph and his sons and gave them a blessing recorded in Genesis 48. Joseph expected that Jacob would give the blessing to Manasseh, his oldest son, so he positioned Manasseh to be near Jacob's right hand. Ephraim was positioned at Jacob's left hand. But Jacob then crossed his arms, placing his right hand upon the head of Ephraim and his left hand upon the head of Manasseh. Gen. 48:15, 16 says, 15 And he blessed Joseph and said, "The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, 16 the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and may my name live on in them, and the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and may they grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." The angel who had redeemed Jacob was the angel that Jacob wrestled at Penuel in Gen. 32:24-32. This was the angel that had given Jacob the name " Israel." So in this blessing, Jacob-Israel was passing that name ISRAEL to the sons of Joseph. At the same time he blessed them with a "multitude" of descendants-that is, with the fruitfulness mandate of the birthright. And so for this reason 1 Chron. 5:1, 2 tells us that Joseph received the birthright. And yet we learn also that the birthright given to Joseph was not the entire birthright as it had existed up to that time. Jacob separated the dominion mandate from the rest of the birthright and gave this portion to Judah. Logabe
 

tim_from_pa

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There are two parts to the birthright given to Adam in the beginning. They are the dominion mandate and the fruitfulness mandate. The dominion mandate is given in Gen. 1:26, 26 Then God said, Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule [Heb. radah, “to have dominion”] over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. The dominion mandate given to Adam did not give him any rules or advice that might help him to rule the earth properly. Since Adam was created in the image of God, proper world government was a given. But after Adam sinned and lost the glory of God, it was not long before the leaven of sin gave fallen man the idea that dominion meant enslaving others and forcing them to do the will of the rulers, regardless of what that might be. The second part of the birthright given to Adam was the fruitfulness mandate. We read of this later in Gen. 1:28, 28 And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it. The manner in which Jacob divided the dominion mandate from the fruitfulness mandate is told in the book of Genesis. In Gen. 37:3 we find the first hint that the birthright was given to Joseph, when Jacob gave him the sign of the birthright holder-a special robe: 3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his sons, because he was the son of his old age; and he made him a varicolored tunic. The actual transfer of the birthright, however, was later given to Joseph's sons, particularly Ephraim, whose name means "fruitfulness." His name was therefore prophetic of the fulfillment of the fruitfulness mandate, dating back to Gen. 1:28. When Jacob was old and about to die, he called for Joseph and his sons and gave them a blessing recorded in Genesis 48. Joseph expected that Jacob would give the blessing to Manasseh, his oldest son, so he positioned Manasseh to be near Jacob's right hand. Ephraim was positioned at Jacob's left hand. But Jacob then crossed his arms, placing his right hand upon the head of Ephraim and his left hand upon the head of Manasseh. Gen. 48:15, 16 says, 15 And he blessed Joseph and said, "The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, 16 the angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and may my name live on in them, and the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and may they grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." The angel who had redeemed Jacob was the angel that Jacob wrestled at Penuel in Gen. 32:24-32. This was the angel that had given Jacob the name " Israel." So in this blessing, Jacob-Israel was passing that name ISRAEL to the sons of Joseph. At the same time he blessed them with a "multitude" of descendants-that is, with the fruitfulness mandate of the birthright. And so for this reason 1 Chron. 5:1, 2 tells us that Joseph received the birthright. And yet we learn also that the birthright given to Joseph was not the entire birthright as it had existed up to that time. Jacob separated the dominion mandate from the rest of the birthright and gave this portion to Judah. Logabe
Yes, in short, Joseph has the birthright as you said, and Judah has the scepter. Included in the birthright was a promise of many peoples and many nations. These, as I have said, are national promises.
 

3rddaymessenger

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You do realize that in order for Christ to come through, God needed a chosen race so that Christ can be born. Without a race, Christ will never be born. And without Christ being born, grace can not come forward. And without grace, we all will die in our sins period.So yes, Israel (Jocob) still exist. As the race still exist.
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Eph 1:10 (KJV)Thank God for His Word, which is plain and simple concerning these things. ALL things were indeed FULFILLED in Christ.Ephesians 2:12-1912 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; Galatians 3:16,2916 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 6:14-1614 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. It is obvious that God made covenants...NOT with nations, but with individuals; with Abraham to be specific. Through this covenant God was able to speak and prophesy His Word into the earth to finally be received and birthed in the womb of Mary.There is neither Greek nor Jew in Christ, but all are considered "new creatures". And there is NOTHING of God's Kingdom outside of Christ. There is no nation saved or favoured "as a nation" outside of Christ and those who are "true Israel" by the new birth.Col 3:11 (KJV)11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Romans 2:28-29 (KJV)28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 9:27 (KJV)27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Even of Israel...those who are true Israel, "a remnant" will be saved; ONLY those who were "afore prepared unto glory". Even as the Gentiles.God is a God of INDIVIDUALS...not "nations" or even "DENOMI-nations".ALL nations are "as nothing, and as a drop of a bucket" and His indignation is upon THEM ALL! Including the United States...by the way.Zeph 3:8 (KJV)8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. Isaiah 40:15-17 (KJV)15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing. 16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. 17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity. THIS is the Truth of the matter. We do not try to "open anyone's eyes", knowing that God alone opens the eyes of His elect to His ways and purposes.You will notice that those who do not understand the "new creation" principle, also misinterpret many endtime prophecies of the Scripture.This is not "replacement theology" or "Calvinism" or anything but the true interpretation of the covenants and foreshadowings and the old Testament dealings of God. Of which JESUS and His predestinated body are the FULFILLMENT.
 

Jordan

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(3rddaymessenger;61609)
(Jordan;61338)
You do realize that in order for Christ to come through, God needed a chosen race so that Christ can be born. Without a race, Christ will never be born. And without Christ being born, grace can not come forward. And without grace, we all will die in our sins period.So yes, Israel (Jocob) still exist. As the race still exist.
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Eph 1:10 (KJV)Thank God for His Word, which is plain and simple concerning these things. ALL things were indeed FULFILLED in Christ.Ephesians 2:12-1912 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; Galatians 3:16,2916 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 6:14-1614 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. It is obvious that God made covenants...NOT with nations, but with individuals; with Abraham to be specific. Through this covenant God was able to speak and prophesy His Word into the earth to finally be received and birthed in the womb of Mary.There is neither Greek nor Jew in Christ, but all are considered "new creatures". And there is NOTHING of God's Kingdom outside of Christ. There is no nation saved or favoured "as a nation" outside of Christ and those who are "true Israel" by the new birth.Col 3:11 (KJV)11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Romans 2:28-29 (KJV)28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 9:27 (KJV)27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Even of Israel...those who are true Israel, "a remnant" will be saved; ONLY those who were "afore prepared unto glory". Even as the Gentiles.God is a God of INDIVIDUALS...not "nations" or even "DENOMI-nations".ALL nations are "as nothing, and as a drop of a bucket" and His indignation is upon THEM ALL! Including the United States...by the way.Zeph 3:8 (KJV)8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. Isaiah 40:15-17 (KJV)15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing. 16 And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. 17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity. THIS is the Truth of the matter. We do not try to "open anyone's eyes", knowing that God alone opens the eyes of His elect to His ways and purposes.You will notice that those who do not understand the "new creation" principle, also misinterpret many endtime prophecies of the Scripture.This is not "replacement theology" or "Calvinism" or anything but the true interpretation of the covenants and foreshadowings and the old Testament dealings of God. Of which JESUS and His predestinated body are the FULFILLMENT.I believe that you have no idea what you are talking about. Christ did not come in a magical instant way. He did not just go "BOOM" appeared.
 

logabe

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Aug 28, 2008
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The separation of the dominion mandate from the fruitfulness mandate sowed the seeds of the breach that was to come upon the nation of Israel after the death of Solomon. Solomon may have been the wisest man that ever lived, but he was not mature enough in his character to use his wisdom wisely. For this reason he became very corrupt, and with this came utter foolishness. He loved to build, but he overtaxed the people to support his building projects. Does that sound familiar? After Solomon died, the people came to his son, Rehoboam, and asked that he reduce the tax burden upon the people. Rehoboam inquired of his advisors. The wise ones advised him to reduce the tax load; the young advisors, however, advised him to increase the taxes and not allow the people to dictate his policies. This caused a breach in the Kingdom, where ten tribes revolted against Rehoboam and set up their own nation with their own king, an Ephraimite named Jeroboam. This had been prophesied in 1 Kings 11:28-39 by the prophet Ahijah, 30 Then Ahijah took hold of the new cloak which was on him, and tore it into twelve pieces. 31 And he said to Jeroboam, Take for yourself ten pieces; for thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, Behold, I will tear THE KINGDOM out of the hand of Solomon and give you ten tribes.... 34 Nevertheless, I will not take THE WHOLE KINGDOM out of his hand, but I will make him ruler all the days of his life, for the sake of My servant David whom I chose, who observed My commandments and My statutes; 35 But I will take THE KINGDOM from his son's hand and give it to you, even ten tribes. Take note especially that it was "the Kingdom" that God removed from the king of Judah. This constituted a separation of the King from the Kingdom. This was the great breach in the land. Because the ten tribes included the tribes of Joseph (Ephraim and Manasseh), who were the custodians of the name ISRAEL, the ten-tribed nation of the north were the ones who were legally allowed to use this birthright name. Hence, they were called "The House of Israel," while the southern two tribes (Judah and Benjamin) could only be called "The House of Judah." The destiny of the House of Israel was to fulfill the birthright. The destiny of the southern House of Judah was to bring forth the King-Messiah. In Christ's first coming, He came of the tribe of Judah, born in Bethlehem, the city of David, in order to fulfill Judah 's calling as the Messiah (Micah 5:2) (dominion mandate). But in His second coming, He must come in a different manner to fulfill the birthright calling of the House of Israel and bring many sons into glory (fruitful bough) (Rev 19:13).13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.Joseph’s vesture was dipped in blood when his brothers killed a goat and dipped it’s blood on Joseph’s coat and brought it back to Jacob to tell him Joseph was dead. Jacob called Joseph a fruitful bough in Genesis 49:22. The word translated "bough" here is the Hebrew word ben. It means "son." The birthright is essential to obtaining the promise of sonship. The second work of Christ is a Joseph work that brings us into full sonship, sometimes called "the adoption of sons."God was not content to allow the birthright to be lost, for the Kingdom is His Bride who must birth the Manchild. The Messiah is the King; the House of Israel was His Wife. It takes both Husband and Wife to bring forth the Sons. The underlying story of the Bible and of all history is how Jesus ascended to the heavens, so that He would be able to direct the events of history to redeem His people, the lost sheep of the House of Israel-in order that He might invite her into His Tabernacle to conceive and birth the Manchild.Logabe
 

3rddaymessenger

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I think we need to realize that the term "Bride", and even "Body", are relational and positional terms. "Bride" signifies and describes our RELATIONSHIP to God as submitted, obedient and intimate vessels through which He can birth His purposes and manifest His glory."Body" signifies our position and potential in Christ.We are "joint heirs" of His glory by virtue of being a part of Him, the very offspring of Him Who is the Word. We are BORN of Him. Therefore, of the same substance and divine nature.God accomplished these relational and positional victories for us in Christ by the death, burial and resurrection of His first born Son. IN HIM were all of the predestinated sons and daughters of God foreordained before the foundation of the world. Even as everything in a tree...was IN the SEED.There is a growing , developing and transformation taking place as we "behold Him" in the ever increasing, progressively unfolding Revelation of His Glory through the Word.2 Cor. 3:18 "But we all, with open (unveiled) face beholding as in a glass the Glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from Glory to Glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."God forbid that we start (or continue) thinking that natural Israel is the Bride of Christ, or separate the "body" from the "bride". There are just continual progressions of birthings and manifestations by way of the unfolding Revelation of Christ by God's Spirit through His Body. There are "first-fruits" and progressive harvests coming forth...from the ONE Seed, Christ. It starts as a SEED and grows unto a huge tree "wherein the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof." Matthew 13:31,32I suggest that we "guard our hearts"...the "soil" for God's Word, and let not the devil or his intellectual hordes rob us of the simplicity which we have in Christ. Let us be as Mary who said, "Be it done unto me according to Thy Word".
 

tim_from_pa

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The destiny of the House of Israel was tofulfill the birthright. The destiny of the southernHouse of Judah was to bring forth the King-Messiah.In Christ's first coming, He came of the tribe ofJudah, born in Bethlehem, the city of David, inorder to fulfill Judah 's calling as the Messiah(Micah 5:2) (dominion mandate). But in Hissecond coming, He must come in a differentmanner to fulfill the birthright calling of theHouse of Israel and bring many sons into glory(fruitful bough) (Rev 19:13).
Yes, that's the crux of what I am saying as well, and for the previous question to the other poster, the clue to that answer to my question has to do with the house of Israel who had the birthright.
For this reason hebecame very corrupt, and with this came utterfoolishness. He loved to build, but he overtaxedthe people to support his building projects. Doesthat sound familiar?
Very familiar. However, maybe we forgot? Or to put it in biblical language, Manasseh.
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logabe

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If we apply this great remarriage between Jesus Christ and Israel prophesied in Hosea and other places, we see that the regathering of Israel into God's house comes after the marriage itself. The remarriage is legally necessary before God ends Israel's dispersion and brings her back into His house. (In Isaiah 56:6-8)6 Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord, to minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath, and holds fast My covenant; 7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; for My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples. 8 The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares, “Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered.”Thus, Israel as a nation is composed of people of all races and nationalities who have transferred their citizenship to the Kingdom of God. To be specific, every Christian believer by definition is a “Jew,” and every true “Jew” who continues on into full Sonship is an Israelite. Keep in mind that there are no more natural Israelites in the world. There are only ex-Israelites of the dispersion. Many people today have ancestors that used to be Israelites, but that does not make them Israelites in the sight of God today. Their Israelite status ended with the great divorce. The only way to regain such a title is through coming into Sonship, which is attaining the Birthright of Joseph. This is done in the same way, equally and impartially, regardless of a person's genealogical heritage.To become part of the Bride of Christ, one must become an Israelite. God will only marry a nation composed of Israelite citizens. Yet citizenship is a legal issue, not a genealogical issue. Citizenship is open to all people, but they must become citizens of Israel to be married to Him. Hence, the Bride is exclusive nationally speaking, but inclusive of all individuals who meet the legal requirements of citizenship.Logabe
 

logabe

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Once a person has become a legal citizen of Judah, then he may continue on to become a citizen of the United House of Israel. This is a greater Kingdom. In fact, it is no other than the Kingdom of God itself. But to become an Israelite one must be joined to Joseph, the birthright holder. In Christ's second coming, He comes as the Heir to the birthright of Joseph. Therefore, one must believe that the true inheritor of Joseph is Jesus Christ and the overcomers (the Joseph company). These are the chosen ones who will rule with Him for a thousand years (Rev. 20:6).Joseph speaks of Sonship. Jesus was the first of the manifested sons of God. He was the pattern, the firstborn from the dead (Col. 1:18). Those who go beyond Passover and Pentecost into the experience of the Feast of Tabernacles are the overcomers who will become the manifested sons of God described in Romans 8:19-21. The way is open to every believer, but not every believer is an overcomer. One can accept Christ as his Passover without accepting Him as his Tabernacles.The manifested sons of God are those who not only have accepted Jesus Christ, but they have also come into the maturity of Sonship. Paul describes this in Galatians 4:1-7 and other writings as the huiothesia, the “placement of Sons.” He says that as long as we are yet immature children, we are no different from slaves or servants, even if we are heirs of all things. A baby is born into a family and is an heir of his father's house; but he is not placed as a Son until he reaches maturity.So also it is with this matter of Sonship. A baby Christian can be an heir of all things, but he is only placed in the legal position of a Son when he reaches maturity. Only then does he exercise the full authority of the Father. To reach such a place of maturity requires going through the developmental steps laid down in Israel's feast days: Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. One must be justified, sanctified, and then glorified. One must be fully saved in spirit, soul, and body. (1st Thess. 5:23)Logabe
 

3rddaymessenger

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(tim_from_pa;61624)
Hey 3rdday--:When was Genesis 35:11 ever fulfilled?
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We're way beyond your NATURAL shadows, road-blocks, and,apparently...stumblingstones; All things were fufilled (and are being fulfilled) in Jesus Christ and His many-membered Body. Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham' seed and heirs according to the promise.The Elect are living in the NOW as "new crearures" in Christ Jesus. Gal. 6:15,1615 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Romans 2:28-29 (KJV)28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 
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