When is a christian NOT a Christian?

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Enoch111

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Break your concern down, and we can discuss it if you desire.
My concern is the MISREPRESENTATION of Scripture by the JWs to establish their doctrine.

THIS IS FALSE: Jesus never claimed to be on the same level as Almighty God.

THIS TOO IS FALSE: Jesus’ early followers did not view him as being equal to Almighty God.

Before we go any further perhaps you should acquire Nave's Topical Bible or check Bible Hub for it and see if these things are true or false.
 

APAK

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My concern is the MISREPRESENTATION of Scripture by the JWs to establish their doctrine.

THIS IS FALSE: Jesus never claimed to be on the same level as Almighty God.

THIS TOO IS FALSE: Jesus’ early followers did not view him as being equal to Almighty God.

Before we go any further perhaps you should acquire Nave's Topical Bible or check Bible Hub for it and see if these things are true or false.
Ok, without going to your source I do not agree with you. It depends on what YOU mean by being on the same level and being equal.
They quoted scripture and I understand it clearly.

In John 5:18, The Pharisees were wanting to kill Jesus because he said that he was the Son of God and the Messiah. And this is readily viewed as not 'being on the same level' as his Father. This is obvious to me...The Son is not nor never greater than the Father.

And in Phil 2:9 the same...God his Father elevated his Son. Therefore, Yahshua was not operating at the same level or was equal as his Father, the Almighty.

So again can you tell me in your own words why you think differently and without referencing an external source.

Thanks,

APAK
 

Jane_Doe22

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I didn't mean to put them on 'ignore' but rather to refuse to be drawn into discussing their negative responses. I don't see that those sort of posts 'balance' anything. Just saying.
I find the best way to balance dirty pigs playing in the mud is not to join them in the mud, but to be a cleanly person on a higher path.
 

ScottA

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( EDIT:- addition....I am added this and changed the heading.
I am NOT after a list of verses about salvation...but I want to hear 'from you'.
I changed the heading when responding to @Enoch111 's post below. )
thanks....
-------

I was thinking it would be interesting what other Christians here think a Christian is...
AND who is 'allowed' to call themselves that?

(
We'd like you in on this too @lforrest don't want you missing this post. :) )

There was some chatter the other day about who was 'allowed' to have "Christian" under their avatar and who should put 'Other Faith', in it's place. ( locking them out of 95% of the forum boards)
So, who defines who can call themselves a christian?

The Nicene creed was mentioned. > for those who don't know it , or have forgotten its content. Nicene Creed

I for one don't agree with a line at the end of it... re the Holy Spirit. It says:-
"He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified."


I don't agree with that... I don't care if they were wise old men with beards.
I don't find that (bolded line) anywhere in the bible at all. In fact it is says He points TO the Father and Son. ( away from Himself)

The Nicene Creed would also define as none-christian any who have a different interpretation of what is called "The Trinity" ...with all the gobbledegook that goes with it about whether it is three persons in one, or one person with three distinct expressions...blah blah blah...
So, if the Nicene Creed is the acid test....are the none trinitarians not christians along with me...( who doesn't believe the Holy Spirit wants to be 'worshipped and glorified'. )

So, who says who is a christian, and who is not. :)

What do all of you have to say?

.....Helen
I think the problem is this question gets taken as defining "Who is saved?" rather than the definition of a Christian.

As for a biblical definition, Jesus was at first vague in saying "follow Me." Which, loosely, might even include Judas. But then He stated it more specifically, saying "whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple." And isn't it extraordinary that the Word Himself should ever use a double negative.
 
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Triumph1300

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Really?
I never knew that...back in England I was in a Pentecostal church for years...and I never heard that taught ....but who cares, it is not even biblical.

Helen, not all pentecostals hold on to the same doctrines. I posted about the "United" Pentecostals. The PAOC (Pentecostals Association of Canada) don't hold on to this doctrine and neither does their counter part in the US (Assemblies of God).
 
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Triumph1300

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There is a world of difference between Jehovah's Witnesses (a cult who reject the deity of Christ and the Trinity) and the United Pentecostals (who uphold both those doctrines and believe what all conservative Christians believe about God). This is the key doctrine which separates Christians from those who claim to be Christians (see the 2nd epistle of John).
Yes, I am well aware of that. However... the United Pentecostals don't believe in the Trinity. It's Jesus only in that denomination.
 
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amadeus

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Yes, I am well aware of that. However... the United Pentecostals don't believe in the Trinity. It's Jesus only in that denomination.
"Jesus is the name of the Father; Jesus is the name of the Son; Jesus is the name of the Holy Ghost; and all these three are one".

That is a line from a song I learned when I belonged to the United Pentecostal Church. It very simply describes an important part of their doctrine. They are definitely NOT Trinitarian.
 

CNKW3

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but who cares, it is not even biblical.
What does this mean? What makes something biblical? Does an approved, apostolic example make something “biblical”? Does it have to be a direct command for something to be “biblical”?
I could give a beautiful “biblical” answer to your “Christian” OP but I don’t think you would accept it.
 

CNKW3

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Nice, but that is cope out. And I expect that from most of the posts.
No doubt we will get lists of verses from the bible.
We already all know what the bible says...
I say this with all kindness.... I am not being mean, but nobody on this board (except one) knows what the Bible says about who is and is not a Christian. The Bible only mentions the word three times but there is sooo much info to be learned in those three instances where the Bible talks about a Christian. But, apparently, the creator of this thread doesn’t want to study what those passages actually say.
 

Bobby Jo

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Quote Triumph1300:
Unless you believe like they do, you are not a Christian.
Which means, you MUST be speaking in tongues, you MUST be water baptised.
Quote "ByGrace":
I was in a Pentecostal church for years...and I never heard that taught ....but who cares, it is not even biblical.

What makes something biblical?

Ummmmm, something from the Bible?

I could give a beautiful “biblical” answer to your “Christian” OP but I don’t think you would accept it.

Somehow I don't think your "biblical" answer is from the Bible.


People can't "imagine" what a Christian is. They must find out who Jesus was; accept HIM in the fullness of Scripture (including repenting of their sins); and follow HIS example in their daily life. To do anything less is not a Christian. :)

Bobby Jo
 

CNKW3

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Quote Triumph1300:
Unless you believe like they do, you are not a Christian.
Which means, you MUST be speaking in tongues, you MUST be water baptised.
Quote "ByGrace":
I was in a Pentecostal church for years...and I never heard that taught ....but who cares, it is not even biblical.



Ummmmm, something from the Bible?



Somehow I don't think your "biblical" answer is from the Bible.


People can't "imagine" what a Christian is. They must find out who Jesus was; accept HIM in the fullness of Scripture (including repenting of their sins); and follow HIS example in their daily life. To do anything less is not a Christian. :)

Bobby Jo
How would you know? You haven’t heard it. And what would you base this on?
What do you mean.... follow his example in their daily life? Are you talking about just being a good and loving person?
How does a person “follow HIS example”? According to your understanding.
 

Helen

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What does this mean? What makes something biblical? Does an approved, apostolic example make something “biblical”? Does it have to be a direct command for something to be “biblical”?
I could give a beautiful “biblical” answer to your “Christian” OP but I don’t think you would accept it.

IF you had bothered to read this thread you would have learned WHY this question was asked in such a way..( for someone else) But, you obviously didn't bother ...


The question was if you had bothered to read deeper and further..."who or what, defines "christian" , and who has the right to tell someone else that they are not a Christian ( as in , having a living relationship with the lord. )

Thank you for your most unhelpful arrogant post...I'm sure it bless everyone here.
 

Helen

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How would you know? You haven’t heard it. And what would you base this on?
What do you mean.... follow his example in their daily life? Are you talking about just being a good and loving person?
How does a person “follow HIS example”? According to your understanding.

If all you want to do is pick apart other peoples posts , then please leave this Thread. And before you go, read post #11 by the Admin.

You may either answer the question in the OP or not...but hitting at what others have responded is not up for debate. This is NOT a debate thread.

Either answer the question from you heart as I asked at the beginning...or go and play somewhere else and pick a fight with someone else...away from here.

Thank you.
 

Helen

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I could give a beautiful “biblical” answer to your “Christian” OP but I don’t think you would accept it.

Another negative post from you.

re the bolded words...If you had read this thread before posting, you would have found that it wasn't "for me"...so it matters little whether I 'would accept the beautiful post' that you did not write.
 

Helen

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How would you know? You haven’t heard it. And what would you base this on?
What do you mean.... follow his example in their daily life? Are you talking about just being a good and loving person?
How does a person “follow HIS example”? According to your understanding.

As I have already said. All these poster on this thread have FIRST responded to the opening post re who has the right to tell another person (that says that they are a christian) that they are not a christian .

If you aren't gracious enough to first answer the topic, you have no footing to start challenging what other people here have written.

Please keep to topic or butt out. Your choice.
 

Helen

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I think you pretty much discerned that person's agenda. :)


... and yeah, you keep me amused,
Bobby Jo

Yes indeed. Derail, derail, derail ...and become the centre of attention with a push about what he believes... and obviously we are all stupid to know anything...and we have no idea what we are talking about.

Yes, I got his number about six weeks ago.:cool:
 
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prism

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My 2¢...

Matthew 13:24-30 KJVS
[24] Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: [25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. [26] But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. [27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? [28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? [29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. [30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
 
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