Please explain this.

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justbyfaith

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What do you mean YOU HAVE A MINISTRY?
By whom is it approved?
A priest?
A pastor?
A church?

WHO????

And please don't say the Holy Spirit because there's some problem between you and Him on some stuff....you do write great O.P.'s.
Maybe THAT could be your ministry?
My ministry is approved and ordained by Jesus (see John 15:16)...for He has promised it to me and I have obtained that promise by faith (Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:2-4, Romans 4:20-22, 1 Corinthians 1:20).

And the Holy Spirit doesn't have any problem with what I teach because I rely on Him for every word, jot, and tittle. Maybe you have a problem with what I teach. There is a difference there that is huge!
 

marks

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Of course the devil does not like his name to be mentioned when he is up to something; he would rather be the invisible man and not be exposed as the one doing what is being done. He would love to accuse people and then have the blame taken off of him for having done the accusing...because if it wasn't the devil doing it, then it has more validity and he likes that...and therefore he would rather not have his schemes exposed as being from him.

It just, really did seem to me that there was an unfortunate twist in the way that the posts were related, that one after the other the devil worked it out to be an accusation against me in order to discredit my ministry; though I am now certain that it was not intended by the human being who wrote the accusation against John Calvin which by virtue of circumstance (even time and chance) spilled over onto me by virtue of simple adjacency (nearness).
Couldn't it be that you may have misunderstood what you read, and made the wrong connection in your mind? That a comment wasn't meant for you, and you just happened to accidentally take it that way?

Much Love!
 

justbyfaith

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Were the Corinthians waiting for Paul to come and confer this gift so that they could then go on to be sanctified?

I think that the second benefit can be rendered to people even apart from something like a second visit by Paul...

What it would take is surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ; whether that comes about as the result of ministry from a minister or whether it comes about from direct ministry of the Holy Spirit.
 

justbyfaith

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Couldn't it be that you may have misunderstood what you read, and made the wrong connection in your mind? That a comment wasn't meant for you, and you just happened to accidentally take it that way?

Much Love!
Yes, of course.

However the devil was behind it, and intended it for evil.

The proximity of the posts might have been conducive to misunderstanding; not only by me but by other readers as well.
 

justbyfaith

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Then shouldn't we take it literally? That which is born of God . . . sins not.
As long as it doesn't turn into gnosticism in your thinking.

The concept that our flesh can sin while our born again self remains innocent, is highly gnostic in its perpetration.
 

justbyfaith

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While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. And in coming to Him believing, we are the ungodly, the guilty, and are made innocent.
However, each and every one of us continues to be "the chief of sinners" (1 Timothy 1:15).
 

marks

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As long as it doesn't turn into gnosticism in your thinking.

The concept that our flesh can sin while our born again self remains innocent, is highly gnostic in its perpetration.
No, not at all. It's the way we are free from sin, and by believing this, we enter into the faith that says we have everything - Everything - in the finished work of Christ on the cross, and in His resurrection from among the dead.

If you do sin . . . how is it you are not condemned?

Much love!
 
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GodsGrace

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Hi @GodsGrace,

That we are forgiven of sins in no way means that we have to continue to walk in them.

You asked for a reconciliation of the verses that you mentioned with 1 John 3:9 and 2 Corinthians 3:12....and the simple statement above reconciles them adequately for me.
OH NO NO NO!

What do you mean FOR YOU????

You must reconcile those verses for ALL OF US reading along.

And you have the incorrect verses...
Here they are again:

Please reconcile your favorite verse
1 JOHN 3:9

WITH

1 John 2:1 AND
John 20:23

You see JBF, the N.T. can contain no conflict of DOCTRINE so IF it seems like there's a contradiction...it MUST be reconciled or we could throw out the N.T.
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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Then in this is your faith, "I am a sinner."

My faith is in this, I am a new creation, made in God's likeness, righteous and truly holy.

Much love!

But then, there is this: NLT Romans 7:21-25 --->"I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22I love God’s law with all my heart. 23But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. 24Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? 25Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin."

KJV: "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

NASB: "I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."

No matter how you slice it (NLT, KJV or NASB), it seems that Paul is tying any remaining sin to our mortality. While our minds and hearts (and Paul nearly equates the two) are servants of righteousness, our bodies continue to be subject to sin and death. Our resurrection bodies will be untainted by sin and death. Praise God! We have our betrothal promises (ketuba in Hebrew) and our minds and hearts are set wholly on those promises--our spirits are born again from on high. But our mortal flesh is weak and sometimes overwhelms our will to resist it--Jesus said to Peter, "Watch and pray so that you will not enter into temptation. For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak." (Matthew 26:41). As we saw, Peter did give in to his flesh that night, during his denial of the Lord. Even later, the Apostle Paul took Peter to task for his hypocrisy (see Galatians 2 for the account). Peter had again given in to his cowardice. "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." Indeed. The Church--the Bride is being told to watch and pray as the darkness descends. We need to have oil in our lamps so that we will be able to go out to meet the Bridegroom even if He comes at mid-night.
 
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GodsGrace

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My ministry is approved and ordained by Jesus (see John 15:16)...for He has promised it to me and I have obtained that promise by faith (Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:2-4, Romans 4:20-22, 1 Corinthians 1:20).

And the Holy Spirit doesn't have any problem with what I teach because I rely on Him for every word, jot, and tittle. Maybe you have a problem with what I teach. There is a difference there that is huge!
Yeah. I knew you'd say this.
Before I could teach kids....
I had to get the seal of approval.
And it wasn't from the Holy Spirit.

He seems to tell different folk different things.
I'm not sure we could trust Him with these here human types.
 

GodsGrace

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But then, there is this: NLT Romans 7:21-25 --->"I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22I love God’s law with all my heart. 23But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. 24Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? 25Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin."

KJV: "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

NASB: "I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."

No matter how you slice it (NLT, KJV or NASB), it seems that Paul is tying any remaining sin to our mortality. While our minds and hearts (and Paul nearly equates the two) are servants of righteousness, our bodies continue to be subject to sin and death. Our resurrection bodies will be untainted by sin and death. Praise God! We have our betrothal promises (ketuba in Hebrew) and our minds and hearts are set wholly on those promises--our spirits are born again from on high. But our mortal flesh is weak and sometimes overwhelms our will to resist it--Jesus said to Peter, "Watch and pray so that you will not enter into temptation. For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak." (Matthew 26:41). As we saw, Peter did give in to his flesh that night, during his denial of the Lord. Even later, the Apostle Paul took Peter to task for his hypocrisy (see Galatians 2 for the account). Peter had again given in to his cowardice. "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." Indeed. The Church--the Bride is being told to watch and pray as the darkness descends. We need to have oil in our lamps so that we will be able to go out to meet the Bridegroom even if He comes at mid-night.
I think it comes out the same in any language!

Here's the deal....
Perhaps we should not call ourselves SINNERS....
For we ARE a new creation.

That DOES NOT mean we don't ever SIN.

Could the 3 or 4 of us agree to THAT??

@justbyfaith
@marks
@Grailhunter
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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Yeah. I knew you'd say this.
Before I could teach kids....
I had to get the seal of approval.
And it wasn't from the Holy Spirit.

He seems to tell different folk different things.
I'm not sure we could trust Him with these here human types.


The Holy Spirit is always consistent with Himself. His indwelling presence is a guarantee that if we wait on Him, He will straighten out our faulty understanding over time--through the word that He inspired. If we fail to understand, it is likely our ignorance of what the Bible actually teaches or our fleshly impulses which stand in the way: "There is a way that seems right to a man but its end is the way of death" (Proverbs 14:12).
 
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GodsGrace

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The Holy Spirit is always consistent with Himself. His indwelling presence is a guarantee that if we wait on Him, He will straighten out our faulty understanding over time--through the word that He inspired. If we fail to understand, it is likely our ignorance of what the Bible actually teaches or our fleshly impulses which stand in the way: "There is a way that seems right to a man but its end is the way of death" (Proverbs 14:12).
Can't agree with you on this one Lady C.
Have you been reading these threads lately?
Do we agree on anything?
I hear so much weird stuff, I wonder if we're all reading the same bible.

The Holy Spirit is consistent with Himself...
But we're not all conistent with Him.
!!
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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I think it comes out the same in any language!

Here's the deal....
Perhaps we should not call ourselves SINNERS....
For we ARE a new creation.

That DOES NOT mean we don't ever SIN.

Could the 3 or 4 of us agree to THAT??

@justbyfaith
@marks
@Grailhunter


I think the way that it has best been expressed is that, "I am a saint of God who still occasionally sins because my flesh is weak. I used to be a slave of sin before I came to Him for His healing touch. Now my re-born spirit is free to serve Him, as is my soul. One day, I will have resurrected flesh that is entirely untainted by sin and death." One commentator (Barnes I think) says that the fact that we occasionally sin, keeps us humble in this life.
 
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GodsGrace

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I think the way that it has best been expressed is that, "I am a saint of God who still occasionally sins because my flesh is weak. I used to be a slave of sin before I came to Him for His healing touch. Now my re-born spirit is free to serve Him, as is my soul. One day, I will have flesh that is entirely untainted by sin and death." One commentator (Barnes I think) says that the fact that we occasionally sin, keeps us humble in this life.
I'm in.
thumbsup.gif
 
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marks

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But then, there is this: NLT Romans 7:21-25 --->"I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22I love God’s law with all my heart. 23But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. 24Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? 25Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin."

KJV: "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

NASB: "I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."

No matter how you slice it (NLT, KJV or NASB), it seems that Paul is tying any remaining sin to our mortality. While our minds and hearts (and Paul nearly equates the two) are servants of righteousness, our bodies continue to be subject to sin and death. Our resurrection bodies will be untainted by sin and death. Praise God! We have our betrothal promises (ketuba in Hebrew) and our minds and hearts are set wholly on those promises--our spirits are born again from on high.


Hi LC,

I agree completely with this above.

But our mortal flesh is weak and sometimes overwhelms our will to resist it--Jesus said to Peter, "Watch and pray so that you will not enter into temptation. For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak." (Matthew 26:41). As we saw, Peter did give in to his flesh that night, during his denial of the Lord. Even later, the Apostle Paul took Peter to task for his hypocrisy (see Galatians 2 for the account). Peter had again given in to his cowardice. "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." Indeed. The Church--the Bride is being told to watch and pray as the darkness descends. We need to have oil in our lamps so that we will be able to go out to meet the Bridegroom even if He comes at mid-night.

In this part, would say that the method the flesh uses to get past our willing spirit is deception.

Ephesian 4
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Another familiar verse:

1 John 2:16 "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

These things are not of the Father, but we are. The belong to the kingdom of darkness, we belong to God's kingdom. The flesh wants us to believe these are ours. So we forget that we've been cleansed of all those past sins.

Invariably, we still end up finding that we sin. A cross word slips out, a malicious or fearful or coveteous thought plays in the mind. A lack of faith and a corner cut, whatever it may be. Some deep dark thing that spends way too long working its way through until we lay it down.

But the message is of freedom, and the one who Christ sets free is free indeed!

I think the message is . . . don't get fooled again!

Much love!
 
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justbyfaith

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Then in this is your faith, "I am a sinner."

My faith is in this, I am a new creation, made in God's likeness, righteous and truly holy.

Much love!

My identity in Christ is that I am righteous in Him, regardless of whether I blow it; and this identity is something that I seek to live by.

Paradoxically, it is a trustworthy saying and worthy of all acceptation that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

If we adopt this saying to our own lives, then our confession is that "I am the chief of sinners."

How then can we be righteous?...

Perhaps in admitting that I am the chief of sinners, I am confessing my sin before God and man; and then He is faihtful and just to cleanse me from all unrighteousness through the confession; which avails as long as it is in effect: which means that a perpetual confession that I am a sinner (even the chief of them) is the safest bet.

What do you mean FOR YOU????

You must reconcile those verses for ALL OF US reading along.

I suppose I could put in the work of making it clear to you...but I am not going to do your homework for you...you need to think about how that statement reconciles your apparent contradiction.

For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak." (Matthew 26:41).

You changed the wording in that scripture...and that can't be good.

Before I could teach kids....
I had to get the seal of approval.
And it wasn't from the Holy Spirit.

Well, at least you realize/admit that you don't have the Holy Spirit's seal of approval on your teaching....
 

Lady Crosstalk

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You changed the wording in that scripture...and that can't be good.

Uh-no. I just used another translation. You are being insufferably pedantic about the KJV, you know. Paul used "flesh" and "body" interchangeably. Look at Romans 7: 21-25 which I quoted in the KJV above (the blue type).
 
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