Please explain this.

@"ByGrace"

On a side note, do you think that believing that all people will go to heaven, if you are wrong, and you are preaching that, will not serve to give certain people a false assurance that they do not need to receive Jesus in order to be saved?

Do you believe that the Lord will hold you accountable for their souls?

If there is a hell, will you go to heaven or hell if you are ultimately responsible for other people going to hell?

justbyfaith said:

@"ByGrace"

On a side note, do you think that believing that all people will go to heaven, if you are wrong, and you are preaching that, will not serve to give certain people a false assurance that they do not need to receive Jesus in order to be saved?

Do you believe that the Lord will hold you accountable for their souls?

If there is a hell, will you go to heaven or hell if you are ultimately responsible for other people going to hell?

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There is really no one on this site that is going to be able to help you. You need to seek professional help.

Grailhunter said:

There is really no one on this site that is going to be able to help you. You need to seek professional help.

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ty. i mean maybe we all do, dunno, but the unequivocal surety! Combined with the willfull blindness at plain Scripture! Wth even is that? How does someone who is able to post like they know so assuredly allowed to get away with silence or non-answers when it becomes obvious that they dont know? Wish i could get away with it lol, souls are now our possessions, tra-la, and not a hiccup to be heard

Birds of a feather flock together.

No pun intended.

Either you were up late last night or you rose early.

I hope for your sake that you rose early.

Because if you were up until 4:12am, that would indicate mania on your part.

To @Grailhunter.

"ByGrace" said:

I myself am a dyed in the wool KJV -er.

It is still a translation. A very anointed one...( and the best) but nevertheless it is still a translation. Some of the meanings of the words don't mean today what they meant back then.
None of them are 'pure' ...but God is well able to get His message across.

The bible is not the forth part of the godhead...even thought some people seem to think so , and have more fellowship with their bibles than they do waiting in the presence of God Himself.

Be blessed... H

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Agree. The Bible is thought inspired... Not word inspired. The writer's were God's penmen, not God's pen. They were all given a vision/thought/dream etc which they then wrote down in their own words. Which is why even in the KJV there are contradictions, such as the number of demon possessed men coming out of the tombs at...at..Genasaret?? One or two?

justbyfaith said:

Was not Paul here saying that it is a trustworthy saying for all of us that "I am the chief of sinners"?

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OK,
My response was to question whether Paul meant that he had sinned greater than any other, or if he meant that has currently sinning greater than others.

My answer is that I think he meant the former, not the latter.

It seems you think he meant the latter.

OK.

brakelite said:

Agree. The Bible is thought inspired... Not word inspired. The writer's were God's penmen, not God's pen. They were all given a vision/thought/dream etc which they then wrote down in their own words. Which is why even in the KJV there are contradictions, such as the number of demon possessed men coming out of the tombs at...at..Genasaret?? One or two?

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What a wonderfully clear way of saying it!
I am never very good with words.

Sadly some are so obsessed with the bible , they believe even that every chapter, every colon, semicolon, full stop and comma is divinely inspired.
( as we know there were none in the original. )

Many verses especially in the NT... if you change the position of a semicolon and run the verse into the next verse with no break...it says something totally different than the accepted.

I love the KJV and these days I don't read anything else...One member here went nuts on me when I said that I have read a verse the normal way, saying what it says...yet a few months later the Lord grabbed me, and spoke to me through that same verse with a very different emphasis and totally out of context.. it was in the context and answered what I had been waiting on Him to receive. This person went off on me and said- "NEVER, the bible says just what it says, God does not change anything to speak to anyone personally. "

Haha!! Well He has, and does.......for me.

That is why it is a LIVING word...it still speaks when anointed by the Spirit of the Lord.

brakelite said:

Agree. The Bible is thought inspired... Not word inspired. The writer's were God's penmen, not God's pen. They were all given a vision/thought/dream etc which they then wrote down in their own words. Which is why even in the KJV there are contradictions, such as the number of demon possessed men coming out of the tombs at...at..Genasaret?? One or two?

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Hi brakelite,

I will be staunchly against this view.

I believe every word and every letter was put down exactly like God wanted.

And on a practical note . . . if you are correct, then where is it's Authority?

Much love!

"ByGrace" said:

Sadly some are so obsessed with the bible , they believe even that every chapter, every colon, semicolon, full stop and comma is divinely inspired.
( as we know there were none in the original. )

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While some believe the commas and capitals are inspired, we know they weren't in the original text.

"ByGrace" said:

Haha!! Well He has, and does.......for me.

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He does for me to. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

Just the same, as I said to brakelite, if the actual wording is not fully inspired, then where is the authority?

Much love!

"ByGrace" said:

What a wonderfully clear way of saying it!
I am never very good with words.

Sadly some are so obsessed with the bible , they believe even that every chapter, every colon, semicolon, full stop and comma is divinely inspired.
( as we know there were none in the original. )

Many verses especially in the NT... if you change the position of a semicolon and run the verse into the next verse with no break...it says something totally different than the accepted.

I love the KJV and these days I don't read anything else...One member here went nuts on me when I said that I have read a verse the normal way, saying what it says...yet a few months later the Lord grabbed me, and spoke to me through that same verse with a very different emphasis and totally out of context.. it was in the context and answered what I had been waiting on Him to receive. This person went off on me and said- "NEVER, the bible says just what it says, God does not change anything to speak to anyone personally. "

Haha!! Well He has, and does.......for me.

That is why it is a LIVING word...it still speaks when anointed by the Spirit of the Lord.

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Agreed...Can you imagine what happened when they broke up the sentences and arbitrary numbered them with chapter and verses.
A good example is that many do not realized that there are two creation stories in Genesis, which is more or less masked by the way they broke the scriptures up in Chapter and verses. The chapter and verses are good for memorization but it can change the meaning.

"ByGrace" said:

Sadly some are so obsessed with the bible , they believe even that every chapter, every colon, semicolon, full stop and comma is divinely inspired.

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Mat 5:18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

This seems to me to say that holy scripture is divinely inspired down to every jot and tittle.

Grailhunter said:

Agreed...Can you imagine what happened when they broke up the sentences and arbitrary numbered them with chapter and verses.

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I have said jokingly that if anyone does not believe that chapter and verse are inspired, that they ought to read Proverbs 32 (30:2).

It works better when you say it verbally; because you say the first thing and mean the 2nd; they go and look up a chapter that isn't there; and when they realize you were speaking of chapter and verse, they look it up (after having thought to find a chapter previously) and in the nkjv find that "Surely I am more stupid than any man."

This is the reality for those who do not believe that chapter and verse are inspired.

marks said:

While some believe the commas and capitals are inspired, we know they weren't in the original text.



He does for me to. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

Just the same, as I said to brakelite, if the actual wording is not fully inspired, then where is the authority?

Much love!

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Thumbs up on the respect for the Word. I am going to say this, and you may already know it. The Word has divine authority, but first you need to see the Word. There are a lot of good translations out there, but none are perfect. Take the important scriptures back to the language and assess it yourself. Things that still do not seem to make sense...you may need to study something about the culture. If someone pointed to Christ and was talking to Peter and said, "Man, hez got game!" Peter might have punched him.

Grailhunter said:

Thumbs up on the respect for the Word. I am going to say this, and you may already know it. The Word has divine authority, but first you need to see the Word. There are a lot of good translations out there, but none are perfect. Take the important scriptures back to the language and assess it yourself. Things that still do not seem to make sense...you may need to study something about the culture. If someone pointed to Christ and was talking to Peter and said, "Man, hez got game!" Peter might have punched him.

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Hi Grailhunter,

I agree with you that we need to do our diligence to understand what God is speaking to us. I believe that no matter what our capabilities with the Hebrew and Greek, or what translations we have access to, we can still receive truth from God simply by being submitted to His Word.

But I think that's the catch. We want what we want, and people can be very good at talking themselves into things. We have to simply not have a preferred position, simply to know whatever it is that He has said.

Something I've found over the years, that when I prayfully consider a passage, and feel that God is revealing to me the meaning, that I either can, or cannot verify my understandings in the Bible. And if I can't, well . . . enough said.

Or if someone was reading 2000 years from now, "It's so cool, got called on the carpet, but I skated!" What??

But at the end of the day what I find the most significant, is simply whether or not I'll believe what I read.

Much love!

brakelite said:

Which is why even in the KJV there are contradictions, such as the number of demon possessed men coming out of the tombs at...at..Genasaret?? One or two?

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Well of course there were two. One of the gospel writers wrote of one of them, and the other wrote of both.

This seems so simple to me. Yet offered as Proof of Contradictions in the Bible? That does not seem like evidence at all.

Much love!

"ByGrace" said:

This person went off on me and said- "NEVER, the bible says just what it says, God does not change anything to speak to anyone personally. "

Haha!! Well He has, and does.......for me.

That is why it is a LIVING word...it still speaks when anointed by the Spirit of the Lord.

Click to expand...

That is why I always pray before reading the Bible that God would show me new things--and He always does.

marks said:

Hi Grailhunter,

I agree with you that we need to do our diligence to understand what God is speaking to us. I believe that no matter what our capabilities with the Hebrew and Greek, or what translations we have access to, we can still receive truth from God simply by being submitted to His Word.

But I think that's the catch. We want what we want, and people can be very good at talking themselves into things. We have to simply not have a preferred position, simply to know whatever it is that He has said.

Something I've found over the years, that when I prayfully consider a passage, and feel that God is revealing to me the meaning, that I either can, or cannot verify my understandings in the Bible. And if I can't, well . . . enough said.

Or if someone was reading 2000 years from now, "It's so cool, got called on the carpet, but I skated! What??

But at the end of the day what I find the most significant, is simply whether or not I'll believe what I read.

Much love!

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Strangely enough...reason...has a bad reputation in Christianity....that goes back to people wanting you to believe, what they tell you, and you not think about it. When you are reading the scriptures and you get that God feeling...that is good....but know that there are people getting that same feeling about the same scripture and get a different meaning out it. And that maybe good or bad....a special message from God thing. Sometimes you have to go looking. Christ talked about it...seek and you will find.....if your serious, then you literally have to become a miner for the truth.

marks said:

While some believe the commas and capitals are inspired, we know they weren't in the original text.



He does for me to. No one will ever convince me otherwise.

Just the same, as I said to brakelite, if the actual wording is not fully inspired, then where is the authority?

Much love!

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A compromise position is that the actual wording is divinely-inspired, in the original autographs. Any translator will tell you that translators must make a lot of decisions while translating from the original language to another. And translators do not typically claim inspiration over their translations.

marks said:

as I said to brakelite, if the actual wording is not fully inspired, then where is the authority?

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I haven't been in this conversation....but may I say - "BY THE WITNESS OF THE SPIRIT".

It is not just a book of rules and authority. It is My Masters Voice when inspired to me.
It is like God jumps off the page and speaks to my heart. A living book.

The authority comes via the anointing as He speaks .
A friend of mine many years ago was in prison. He read the bible through three times because of boredom . It did nothing for him, it has no meaning, no connection, no 'authority' for him.

It is the heart of God to us, when He moves upon the black print and it comes alive.
As I see it, the authority is by the Spirit word.

It is a translation , it was writing by godly men who wrote down what God was saying to them .
They did not have a robotic pen.

As for someone believing that ever verse and every chapter was inspired!! Much makes much more sense when running the end of a chapter into the next , and then the lights come on re context.

Thanks.

Lady Crosstalk said:

A compromise position is that the actual wording is divinely-inspired, in the original autographs. Any translator will tell you that translators must make a lot of decisions while translating from the original language to another.

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Yes agree. And very true indeed. Some people get manic about the bible. Even our good old KJV.
But then again, human nature loves to fight about anything.