When is a christian NOT a Christian?
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Miss Hepburn
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Hi Bobby Jo, that was very kind of you to try to explain that post to me....xxxxoooHi MH!
It looks to me to be a reference to where some people pray for others, parents for their children, etc.
But the crux is, YOU get to make your own decisions!
Bobby Jo
Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
Philip James could you read this again:
"I don't want to seem I'm talking behind
anyone's back, but then why didn't he say that?
If it is about baptism...I was not baptized until I myself...no community or mothers or fathers, no relatives...NO support,
just the opposite...
got Baptized as a Freshman in High School after regular RI, Religious Instruction..all by myself, despite...family
disagreeing to my choice of religion. No community, no mothers and fathers.
For anyone's information.
Hope to see you more aspen. xo
"
--Miss Hepburn...an ex Catholic...
"I don't want to seem I'm talking behind
anyone's back, but then why didn't he say that?
If it is about baptism...I was not baptized until I myself...no community or mothers or fathers, no relatives...NO support,
just the opposite...
got Baptized as a Freshman in High School after regular RI, Religious Instruction..all by myself, despite...family
disagreeing to my choice of religion. No community, no mothers and fathers.
For anyone's information.
Hope to see you more aspen. xo
"--Miss Hepburn...an ex Catholic...
Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
The Cath Church says that? Never heard it before...ha!
where did you know about that phrase? Thanks ...might explain that he thought I had heard it before. I dunno.
Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
Marymog
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Hi Helen,( EDIT:- addition....I am added this and changed the heading.
I am NOT after a list of verses about salvation...but I want to hear 'from you'.
I changed the heading when responding to @Enoch111 's post below. )
thanks....
-------
I was thinking it would be interesting what other Christians here think a Christian is...
AND who is 'allowed' to call themselves that?
(We'd like you in on this too @lforrest don't want you missing this post.
There was some chatter the other day about who was 'allowed' to have "Christian" under their avatar and who should put 'Other Faith', in it's place. ( locking them out of 95% of the forum boards)
So, who defines who can call themselves a christian?
The Nicene creed was mentioned. > for those who don't know it , or have forgotten its content. Nicene Creed
I for one don't agree with a line at the end of it... re the Holy Spirit. It says:-
"He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified."
I don't agree with that... I don't care if they were wise old men with beards.
I don't find that (bolded line) anywhere in the bible at all. In fact it is says He points TO the Father and Son. ( away from Himself)
The Nicene Creed would also define as none-christian any who have a different interpretation of what is called "The Trinity" ...with all the gobbledegook that goes with it about whether it is three persons in one, or one person with three distinct expressions...blah blah blah...
So, if the Nicene Creed is the acid test....are the none trinitarians not christians along with me...( who doesn't believe the Holy Spirit wants to be 'worshipped and glorified'. )
So, who says who is a christian, and who is not.
What do all of you have to say?
.....Helen
You present a fascinating question and one that has been debated for 2,000 years. Scripture talks about heresy or heretics and how The Church (or we) is to treat them: 2 Thessalonians 3:6, Matthew 18:17, Romans 16:17-18 are a few example's. Heretics would not be Christian since they do not follow the teachings of Christ. So IMO the real question is WHO get's to decide OR who has the authority to decide who is a heretic.
I don't understand why you have a problem with the part in blue. To me that part simply says that we worship and glorify the Holy Spirit just like we worship and glorify Jesus and God. They are all the same persons (hence Trinity) so you can't worship and glorify 2 out of 3 of them. Do you read it differently?
Respectfully, Mary
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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"He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified."
Well between you and I , I don't really have a 'problem' as such...I just don't like the wording of those who wrote it. It sounds as if it is saying we worship the Father..check. We worship Jesus...check...and it sound like it is saying that we should also be worshiping the Holy Spirit. I do not find that anywhere in the bible. Do you?
It says in John 14 : 26 " But the the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
I know others here have said that as they are ONE God , and, as they are one, it is all one and the same... so we worship Him anyway. True
But I have the right to not like the wording , God requires our worship and He requires worship for the Son.
*This thread is about who has the right to tell another person that they should not call themselves a christian.
So I intend to just leave it there. And back to topic.
Thanks for your reply
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Philip James
Well-Known Member
Miss Hepburn,
Who baptized you? Who were your god parents? Was there no community present for this? Did they not pray with and for you?
You say uou were in high school, did you not undestand the questions that were asked of you? The Faith expressed in prayer for you?
Tell me more about your baptism...
Peace!
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@Miss Hepburn
Sorry Philip....you also are moving the topic sideways.
This is NOT the place for a 3rd degree on someone else...
There are lots of threads about baptism , this is not one one them.
You are free to ask her in a PM or on a baptism thread bro.
Thanks ...
Sorry Philip....you also are moving the topic sideways.
This is NOT the place for a 3rd degree on someone else...
There are lots of threads about baptism , this is not one one them.
You are free to ask her in a PM or on a baptism thread bro.
Thanks ...
Philip James
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Miss Hepburn
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Ha, I thought there was no more debate after 325 AD...I mean it...that there was no question...
what they said was a Christian, was a Christian, period.
It is only now lately I have found out modern Christians think differently!
That's ok...it's just news to me. It's also interesting the diff takes or ideas and opinions.
Now, I find out some don't know what the Nicene Council's decision was, thus, what their Creed says.
Entering Heaven or being saved or being a good Christian have been brought up ..but this thread isn't about those...
it's about being called a Christian...
I do not say I am a Christian if someone asks...I can not, because I don't believe in something in that Creed...which is the definition...to me! Don't ask.
It was done by prominent early Christians to define what a Christian is...and has not changed ...except in the minds of individuals.
It's not my call...I'm just observing...I have no need to change what someone thinks.
Do I agree with the Creed being the end all and be all definition ...no. BUT...that's not my job. I abide by it.
Christian elders from all over made a rule as to what to believe - to be a Christian...I can't then make up my own ideas...that
was meant to stop just that and create a unified front...haha or belief for all. Right? A standard...with no spin off ideas.
No one else has to think as I do...
But, hey, that's me...y'all can do whatever you would like, I don't mind.
..I mean it...that there was no question...what they said was a Christian, was a Christian, period.
It is only now lately I have found out modern Christians think differently!
That's ok...it's just news to me. It's also interesting the diff takes or ideas and opinions.
Now, I find out some don't know what the Nicene Council's decision was, thus, what their Creed says.
Entering Heaven or being saved or being a good Christian have been brought up ..but this thread isn't about those...
it's about being called a Christian...
I do not say I am a Christian if someone asks...I can not, because I don't believe in something in that Creed...which is the definition...to me! Don't ask.
It was done by prominent early Christians to define what a Christian is...and has not changed ...except in the minds of individuals.
It's not my call...I'm just observing...I have no need to change what someone thinks.
Do I agree with the Creed being the end all and be all definition ...no. BUT...that's not my job. I abide by it.
Christian elders from all over made a rule as to what to believe - to be a Christian...I can't then make up my own ideas...that
was meant to stop just that and create a unified front...haha or belief for all. Right? A standard...with no spin off ideas.
No one else has to think as I do...
But, hey, that's me...y'all can do whatever you would like, I don't mind.
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The thing is, what evidence from scripture is there that grants anyone authority to punish heretics. Identifying a heretic who is straying from sound doctrine is one thing... But to punish... Even to put to death...
Jesus and God... Interesting how you differentiated between the two here...
Which contradicts what you wrote above and testifies how the formula which we call Trinity can be fraught with difficulties. We know God is spirit. Before the Son was incarnated,, He also was spirit, as are the angels. Then we have the spirit of God, and the spirit of Christ... How many spirits are there in the Trinity?
Actually no, that didn't settle it at all. What arose after Nicea was war. The "heretic" nations were either forced to submit, or they were destroyed. The decision on the Trinity at Nicea was not a majority but finally decided by the presiding Emperor who changed his mind a few years later. The holy spirit I would suggest did not take part in deciding those issues. And certainly did not take part in enforcing then later.Ha, I thought there was no more debate after 325 AD.
what they said was a Christian, was a Christian
Marymog
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Brakelite you should read scripture instead of your anti-Catholic "history" books.
Scripture talks about heresy or heretics and how The Church (or we) is to treat them: 2 Thessalonians 3:6, Matthew 18:17, Romans 16:17-18 are a few example's.
Bible study Mary
Marymog
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There is a difference. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are three separate entities but all one.
Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
RE: the Nicene Council
I never heard anyone say that before, excellent, @brakelite!
There were wars right afterwards? I am not an historian ...I love what I have learned over the years on forums!!
(I mean I know about the terrible Crusades...one reason I just can not be a Catholic anymore...tho, I do love Catholics...
and many other things.)
Oh, is that ever a good way to put it !!
I never heard anyone say that before, excellent, @brakelite!
There were wars right afterwards? I am not an historian ...I love what I have learned over the years on forums!!
(I mean I know about the terrible Crusades...one reason I just can not be a Catholic anymore...tho, I do love Catholics...
and many other things.)
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