The Stunning Implications Of Matthew 25:31:46

Hidden In Him said:

I think it's clear evidence that justification cannot be by faith alone, for even when they fulfilled acts of righteousness according to conscience while still yet not being believers, these same acts served as the basis for their being deemed worthy of the kingdom prepared for those who loved God.

Salvation by grace, but a grace they had proven themselves worthy of by the risks they took for the sake of His brethren.

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True belief will always produce actions. But the belief, not the actions saves us.

Either we simply live according to the beliefs we have, or we are trying to replicate what that looks like by doing the list of things.

Much love!

Hidden In Him said:

All this takes place before the rapture.

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I'm not sure that follows from your previous comment, but I'll leave that for another thread

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Hidden In Him said:

If true belief must produce actions, then the actions actually do save us in a way because they demonstrate true faith : )

This feels like the chicken and the egg debate.

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I think it's solved in the extreme case.

A man comes to faith in Jesus and immediately before having a chance to, say, give to the needy, or anything else.

Another man gives to the needy, but without regard to Jesus.

Of these, are either saved, and if so, who? The first, who, even though they did no works, is saved in his faith. Given time, works will be added, but they only demonstrate the reality of the faith.

Yes, a chicken/egg thing, but the chicken DID come first, being made.

Let's say you have a Volkswagen bus, and you can only go 45 mph on the freeway. That's what this little bus can do!

But then, you change it's nature, drop that little air cooled thing, and drop in a perfomance water cooled Porshe engine. My friend's dad did this when I was a kid.

Suddenly they didn't have to worry about what speed they drove, and whether it would overheat. They could now drive freeway speeds just fine.

The driving freeway speeds is like the works we do, and the motor that makes attaining that speed possible is like our rebirth which makes our works of righteousness possibl.

Even if you don't drive it, the motor was swapped. But why do that and not drive it?

You may find a hill you can roll down and make it look like you can go faster now, but that's just trying to do works apart from faith.

But it's not the driving fast that makes this a different sort of car, it's the new motor that can drive fast, that's what makes the difference.

Somewhere in all this, are you seeing what I'm trying to say?

Much love!

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Well for starters, the foundation of your doctrine here, is that all you need is faith. Which is a lie, told to scared and lazy people whom are comforted by false doctrine so they can never worry about going to Hell. Having a "belief" in Jesus as the Son of God, and that God is in Heaven does not show your righteousness. As James points out, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." So having faith alone puts you equal with satan and the demons, because you believe there is a God but have not proven your faith. As we are told in 1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Next, you are missing the first verse of the parable, which clearly states "the Kingdom of Heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants". The "far country" is Heaven, Jesus is up in Heaven right now and he has "called his own servants" to take care for his goods while he is away.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Next, you missed the verse 30, I find it interesting you started your post at verse 31. From verses 14-30 the entire parable is about doing works while your master is gone, and the "unprofitable servant" is thrown into "outer darkness". But your post says, "because we today are saved by grace through faith." The question is if you purposely skipped half the chapter because it did not fit into your false doctrine, which many Christians do when they cherry pick in the Bible to find support for their beliefs. Or if in your rejection of God's Word, satan is allowed to influence your life to cause you to be blinded towards anything that will lead you back to following the Word of God. I can not say, but leave that to you.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

What confuses me in the next part you missed, is how the Scripture clearly states "When the Son of man shall come in his glory" and you take that has post-thousand years. Do you think Jesus is going to return, setup his kingdom of Earth, then leave for a second time? If you are confused, you can look outside the scripture you are looking at, there is nothing of a private interpretation. The problem is with many Christians, they open the Bible and read a chapter and try to go deep into the spiritual meat about he meaning just using that Chapter. Not how Christianity works; you read Matthew then connect it to James, then parallel it with Revelation, then back it up with Corinthians...etc.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

God is so amazing, Matthew 25: 31-32 is backed up with Matthew 24:29-31, even the verses match basically with the same topic. As we learn in Matthew 24, "Immediately after the Tribulation" which is when satan is here, Jesus will return and the first thing he does is to "gather together his elect from the four winds". Big bomb shell, there is no rapture either just as their is no "all you need to do is believe", we are told after the Tribulation Jesus will return and gather all his elect/servants from across the Earth.

The truth is there; the problem is that Christians study the Bible to fulfill their traditions of man and cherry pick, instead of studying the Bible to have the truth revealed to them without predetermined guidelines.

Hidden In Him said:

I realize you have a heavily spiritualized interpretation of prophecy, Scott. I expected that debates over things like millennialism might also come up, and I had already determined to limit those discussions to the scope of this parable to stay on subject. But I appreciate you laying out your point of view.

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There is no other correct interpretation, anything else a mere examination of the objects of the spiritual subjects made manifest...the flesh responding to itself, rather than to God whom is spirit. The words are spirit.

Spiritualization = godlyness (God is spirit). Why would you refuse it? (Rhetorical)

Enoch111 said:

And this is wronger than wrong. You are denying the reality of the physical and visible Second Coming of Christ with power and great glory and making Christ a liar. His first coming was about 2,000 years ago. His Second Coming is AFTER the Great Tribulation.

You are quick to say that someone is *in the flesh* and *speculating* when he is properly interpreting Scripture. But what do we call those who make God and Christ liars?

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True, you call them true.

Not because they "Make God and Christ liars", but because their interpretation is true according to the Spirit.

On the contrary, you should be asking why God whom is spirit would "lower" Himself again, when "It is finished?" (Rhetorical) He would not, and will not. But "that which is flesh is flesh" and what is of the Spirit is foolishness to such a one.

Hidden In Him said:

I realize you have a heavily spiritualized interpretation of prophecy, Scott. I expected that debates over things like millennialism might also come up, and I had already determined to limit those discussions to the scope of this parable to stay on subject. But I appreciate you laying out your point of view.

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So your subject is the pot, but not the Potter?

Pardon me, I thought this was a "Bible Study Forum."

Hidden In Him said:

I think it's clear evidence that justification cannot be by faith alone,

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Since the Bible is very clear that justification is purely by grace through faith, God does not change His principles in mid-stream. What was true from the time of Abel to the present, will also be true after the Second Coming of Christ. Just because one does not find that EXPLICITLY STATED in this narrative does not mean God suddenly changed. It simply means that there is no need for redundancy.

Hidden In Him said:

No! : )

Is the cork gonna hit me in the face? That wouldn't be pleasant...

But I may have no choice, so bring it on!

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I'll aim away.

Here is my view in a nutshell. (right!)

Our present time before the 70th week ends as the seals are openned, as Gog & Magog et al invade Israel, as the the church is raptured, as cataclysm strikes the earth.

Worldwide earthquake (Ez 38/ Rev. 6), fire, hail, blood from heaven, Gog/Magog destroyed in the first trumpet judgment.

Church appears in heaven, 144,000 Jewish men are sealed by God, His witness to His people, they go through the cities of Israel.

Trumpets continue during first half of week. 2 witnesses prophesy in Jerusalem for first 3.5 years.

Middle of week, 144,000 are translated into heaven, the 2 witnesses are killed, resurrect, and ascend into heaven. Satan is cast to the earth.

The beast stands in the temple of God showing that he is god. The some of the Jews flee to the wilderness, where Elijah prepares the to receive Jesus.

The beast consolidates power, and people begin to be presented to the image of the beast to worship it. Those who do not are killed, those who do are marked.

Angels fly in the sky, preaching, warning, God's witness to man.

This is the Great Tribulation, as Satan tries to kill any Jew who might say, Blessed is He Who comes in the Name of the Lord!

The bowls of wrath are poured out.

The armies of the earth gather against Israel, take the city, Isaiah 28, day after day the overwhelming scourge will pass through, it will be a terror to understand it.

Imagine being a Jew, trapped in Jerusalem, having come to realize that this is antichrist, the beast come to destroy, and you are his target, and you are trapped . . . terror!

Everything just keeps getting worse and worse, then the beast is making the final push against Jerusalem, and Jesus arrives.

Jesus stands on the mount of olives, which splits in two. The Jews flee from the beast through this new valley, and antichrist's armies follow.

Then, just like the Red Sea, this new valley closes in on the armies of antichrist, the winepress of God's wrath, the blood flows out in a river 5 feet deep.

Armageddon.

The Jews are gathered, Jesus takes His throne, the nations gathered and judged.

The sheep are the natural people who will repopulate the earth in the 1000 year kingdom.

The OT faithful are resurrected.

The Millennial Kingdom has begun.

I've put decades of study into this. I'm open to anything new. I have reasoning with Scripture for all of these, but if you want to drill into it, I'll need to go slowly.

If.

Much love!

Hidden In Him said:

There is no mention made of these righteous ones "believing on the Lord Jesus Christ," nor are they judged righteous on this basis. They are judged righteous on their deeds alone

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It's reported that in the great trib we go back to OT Law briefly. That's the last chance to prove we are willing to live our lives for Christ since the age of Grace ends around this time. Salvation via Faith alone is no longer at play.

Hidden In Him said:

Why would He distinguish between these righteous ones and those He refers to as His brethren? If they themselves were already His brethren, He would not have used this language. Rather, the language suggests they were merely those who helped His brethren in their time of need.

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But Chris, he's talking to the sheep that he separated. His Sheep are his Brethren and family and children, are we not? LoL

Hidden In Him said:

He is God, and the time for needing to have "faith" in this will be over. It will now be obvious, and faith in His divinity will no longer be in question

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Right, hence the need to prove to Him our allegiance.

Hidden In Him said:

Mal'ak, your post suggests you don't have much of a handle on what I believe. That you are finding fault with what I supposedly believe in spite of it, however, makes me leery to even explain it to you. So I think I'll just forego the discussion.

Thanks for participating, and maybe next time.
Blessings in Christ

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I do understand your beliefs, you believe you are saved by faith alone, but you are trying to use faith alone in a chapter of the bible that specifically talks about needing works or you will be cast out. In order for this to work, you need to skip 90% of the verses in this chapter, to make your point, and I am just clearly pointing out you are skipping scripture that answers and/or relates directly to your post. You can ignore my post, but the facts are there for others to see and that is the point.

Hidden In Him said:

Scott, I'm asking you kindly here, but I have asked you twice now. Stop derailing this thread. If you want to debate your eschatology, go create your own. I want to stay on topic here.


Yes, it's the Bible Study Forum, on Matthew 25:31-46. Go back and check the title.
Not the end of the world, but shut up already, LoL.

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So it's just a tickle my ears discussion. Fine. If you want to leave God and everything spiritual out of your discussion, I will indeed butt out.

But if you think there is anything unspiritual to discuss on Matthew 25:31-46...you are dead wrong. Which is not off topic to say so...but very much on topic.