Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

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OzSpen

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Everything I've said is from the word of the Lord.

If it weren't, then I would have reason to fear what it says in James 3:1.

As it is, I know that I am preaching faithfully.

No it isn't. Everything you've said is your interpretation on the non-Trinitarian view of the Godhead. It is false teaching and I've shown it in my article,
How to understand three persons in the Trinity
 
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justbyfaith

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You teach the 'one Spirit' of Eph 4:4 is not the Holy Spirit.

No, I do not. Read what I wrote again.

You should apply Titus 2:1 to yourself as you teach false doctrine on the Trinity.

What false doctrine?

I find it somewhat perturbing, that the carnal/natural mind does not receive the things of the Spirit of God and that there are many who identify the teaching of the Holy Ghost as being false doctrine.

I believe that there has to be something demonic behind it.

It behooves the devil to call sound doctrine, heresy; and heresy, sound doctrine: in order that he might deceive the minds of the simple and keep them in bondage to false doctrines in the church.
 

justbyfaith

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@OzSpen,

I'm afraid that you are teaching heresy by what you teach, in the following:

Since I’m examining the personhood of each member of the Trinity, how can we speak of Father, Son and Holy Spirit in unity and yet they are separate persons.

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not separate but distinct, even according to the most accepted creeds.

What you don't understand is that my view of the Trinity, in essence, in no way contradicts any of the creeds; in fact it substantiates them with scripture.

I am not in disagreement about the plurality in the Godhead. However, I think that you need to go to the beginning of this thread and read the first four posts in order to get the accurate understanding of our God's Triune nature according to the holy scriptures. He is more one than He is three; and if you focus too extensively on His threeness you are in danger of believing and teaching the heresy of Tritheism.

Here is a link:

Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.
 
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OzSpen

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justbyfaith,

You claim of the Trinity:
He is more one than He is three;

I've shown you links to my 2 articles that demonstrate God is one with three persons in the Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. My articles provide the scriptural base for this teaching.

You seem to be misunderstanding the Scriptures and coming up with the a notion that supposedly is in the early Creeds. Did you notice that you never quoted from one of the Creeds to support your evidence - not one.

That makes it your assertion and not theology based on evidence.

Oz
 
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justbyfaith

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justbyfaith,

You claim of the Trinity:


I've shown you links to my 2 articles that demonstrate God is one with three persons in the Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. My articles provide the scriptural base for this teaching.

You seem to be misunderstanding the Scriptures and coming up with the a notion that supposedly is in the early Creeds. Did you notice that you never quoted from one of the Creeds to support your evidence - not one.

That makes it your assertion and not theology based on evidence.

Oz
Forgive me my friend...I do not have sudden access to the creeds but I do know that if memory serves me, when I have read them I have found that nothing that I believe in concerning the Trinity is in contradiction to them, in essence.

Be a Berean! (see Acts 17:10-11). Test my assertion with the evidence that is available to you. I am not going to do your homework for you. Go and find the creeds on a website and go and compare them to what I have taught from the beginning of this thread. You will find that, in essence, my beliefs concerning the Trinity are not in contradiction to what they have to say.
 

OzSpen

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Forgive me my friend...I do not have sudden access to the creeds but I do know that if memory serves me, when I have read them I have found that nothing that I believe in concerning the Trinity is in contradiction to them, in essence.

Be a Berean! (see Acts 17:10-11). Test my assertion with the evidence that is available to you. I am not going to do your homework for you. Go and find the creeds on a website and go and compare them to what I have taught from the beginning of this thread. You will find that, in essence, my beliefs concerning the Trinity are not in contradiction to what they have to say.

jbf,

Since you have access to the Internet, you have access to the Creeds. I've just Googled them:
  1. The Apostles' Creed;
  2. The Athanasian Creed;
  3. The Nicene Creed.
I am a Berean and have been one for 55 years.

It is your responsibility to show us where your teaching does not differ from that in the creeds.

By the way, the Creeds are not the standard by which we judge biblical teaching, according to your own view and that of Acts 17:11. However, creeds are found in Scripture.

What is the standard of discernment for biblical teaching: 'And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth' (Acts 17:11 NLT).

Acts 17:11 does not state that the people of Berea listened to Paul's message and 'searched the Creeds day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth'.

A single prayer in Deut 6:4 (ESV), 'Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one' is regarded by some Rabbis as a single creedal statement:
(Hebrew: שמע ישראל אדני אלהינו אדני אחד‎; transliterated Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad). See Jesus' statement in Mark 12:29 (ESV).

The Israelites confessed their faith in this one God and worshipped him publicly at the temple and tabernacle. Why? They thanked this one Lord for the blessings of bringing them out of Eygypt - saving them. See Deut 26:1-11.

Oz
 
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101G

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GINOLJC, to all.
I am a Berean and have been one for 55 years.

It is your responsibility to show us where your teaching does not differ from that in the creeds.
well let's up the stakes and see if the creed adds up to the bible.

the trinity doctrine states, three person, all co-equal, but one NATURE... correct. ok. now this, "How did God, (the Son), died?. If one person nature is the same of all the person nature?

let's understand this, If one say well only the son died, error, did not you say the nature of all three person is the same one nature?. if only the son died and all have the same ONE nature, then the one nature died. because Matthew 1:23 states, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us". did not John 4:24a states, "God" is a Spirit, so that nature, (the Spirit, God), was with us in a body.

if one say ony the NATURE of the Son died, then the Son a have separate Nature from the other two. and now you have at least two separate "NATURES" .... Gods.

so we're asking the trinitarian believers how did one person of the trinity, WITH THE SAME ONE NATURE die and not affect the remaining two ... person nature?.

we cain't wait to hear that answer.

but will be looking for an answer..... o_O

PICJAG.
 

justbyfaith

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Hi @101G,

I have a question for you (and it is rather loaded).

In 2 Corinthians 5:21, it teaches that when Jesus died for us He became sin for us.

Did the Holy Ghost die in this fashion?

The question is loaded because you are in danger of committing the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost if you answer wrongly.
 
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justbyfaith

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I am a Berean and have been one for 55 years.

It is your responsibility to show us where your teaching does not differ from that in the creeds.
It is the responsibility of the Berean to check things by the scriptures. If you are truly a Berean, then you will do this concerning my teaching.

I am not going to do your homework for you.

Because to do what you require of me would take extensive posting.
 

justbyfaith

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I do have a singular contention with the Athanasian creed, in this statement:

The Son was neither made nor created;

I find that the following verse contradicts it:

Rom 1:3, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Therefore I contend that according to the flesh, Jesus Christ (the Son) was made/created;

but that concerning His Deity He is uncreated.
 
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justbyfaith

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I also take issue with this statement:

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;

I contend that Jesus was begotten in the incarnation, Luke 1:35;

The Father descended to become the Son (Isaiah 9:6),
then rose again to fill all things,
even ascending to again inhabit eternity (Ephesians 4:10).

Whereas he did not vacate eternity when He descended.
 
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justbyfaith

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In the Nicene creed, I only take issue with the following statement:

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,

1st, Jesus was begotten in the incarnation;

and 2ndly, while technically He can be referred to as God from God,

I take issue with the statement inasmuch as it can be misconstrued to mean that Jesus is a separate (rather than distinct) God from the Father.

Jesus is the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God as God the Father (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

He is the same Person.

While He is also a distinct Person from the Father.

Such is the paradox of the Triune nature of our Lord.
 

justbyfaith

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So, in answer to your challenge, I have gone through each one of the creeds line-by-line and expressed my only disagreements.

I say to you truly that in every other way, my doctrine lines up with what the creeds profess: my conscience bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost.

To @OzSpen.
 
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101G

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Hi @101G,

I have a question for you (and it is rather loaded).

In 2 Corinthians 5:21, it teaches that when Jesus died for us He became sin for us.

Did the Holy Ghost die in this fashion?

The question is loaded because you are in danger of the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost if you answer wrongly.
First thanks for the reply, second, there are two deaths. one Naturally, and Spiritually. natural death is not the end of life (spiritually), but yes, Natural life. death he, Jesus who is the Holy Spirit, (that just answered your question) conquered death, for it had no claim on him. and let's see if it's so by scripture, Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

THERE IS ONLY ONE SPIRIT. the diversified Spirit who is God, G2758 κενόω kenoo himself in flesh, hence the desigination, "spirit". the desigination of God as spirit is in "FLESH", hence, diversified. that which was in the natural body, tasted the FIRST DEATH TO THE NATURAL FLESH THAT HE, GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT TOOK ON, for every man. in the First death no Spirit, nor any spirit is harmed. now what STOP existing? the Body, for the spirit without the body is DEAD. NOT THE "spirit". and WHY is the Body DEAD? answer, Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh". this is what DIED "NATURAL" flesh, the First death, is of the flesh and blood only. the body/flesh and Soul can eventually die, which is the second death.

PICJAG.
 

justbyfaith

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Jesus who is the Holy Spirit, (that just answered your question)

So the Holy Spirit became sin for us?

Is this not to say that the Holy Spirit became sin (thus blaspheming the Spirit as being of the nature of sin; other than what He truly is, of the nature of holiness)?
 

101G

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So the Holy Spirit became sin for us?

Is this not to say that the Holy Spirit became sin (thus blaspheming the Spirit as being of the nature of sin; other than what He truly is, of the nature of holiness)?
is not the Holy Spirit God? ... yes, supportive scripture, John 4:24a "God is a Spirit". and God came in flesh, supportive scripture, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us". that God the Spirit "shared".
PICJAG.
 

justbyfaith

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is not the Holy Spirit God? ... yes, supportive scripture, John 4:24a "God is a Spirit". and God came in flesh, supportive scripture, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us". that God the Spirit "shared".
PICJAG.
You didn't answer the question.

Did the Holy Spirit become sin?

I believe that Isaiah 53:10 has your answer.

God is a Spirit.