The Stunning Implications Of Matthew 25:31:46

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Lady Crosstalk

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Yes, complete foolishness. 1 Corinthians 1:18

I wonder if Nicodemus was too tired when He first heard about being born again of the spirit of God.

Didn't see evidence of "the foolishness of the gospel" in your post--just the general nonsense of you arguing that we should accept your odd meanings for words; 2 Timothy 2:14--->"Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers." If your arguments are too lofty for we plebeians to understand, perhaps it is because they are made of cotton candy. Please use the commonly accepted and standard meaning for words if you expect to be understood. There is a reason why the orthodox creeds were established.

Nicodemus was speaking with Jesus and may have ignored his fatigue, since they met at night. I too would ignore my fatigue, had I that opportunity but, you are not Jesus. Jesus was plain spoken and did not speak down to his hearers as the Greek philosophers did. I have sympathy for the Apostle Paul who was directed by the Holy Spirit to engage the philosophers on Mars Hill.
 
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ScottA

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Didn't see evidence of "the foolishness of the gospel" in your post--just the general nonsense of you arguing that we should accept your odd meanings for words; 2 Timothy 2:14--->"Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers." If your arguments are too lofty for we plebeians to understand, perhaps it is because they are made of cotton candy. Please use the commonly accepted and standard meaning for words if you expect to be understood. There is a reason why the orthodox creeds were established.

Nicodemus was speaking with Jesus and may have ignored his fatigue, since they met at night. I too would ignore my fatigue, had I that opportunity but, you are not Jesus. Jesus was plain spoken and did not speak down to his hearers as the Greek philosophers did. I have sympathy for the Apostle Paul who was directed by the Holy Spirit to engage the philosophers on Mars Hill.
You make a case for the teachings of men, for looking to the flesh, instead of looking up as you were informed, fulfilling many prophecies: Isaiah 30

So be it.
 

charity

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Matthew 25:31-46 - The Gathering of the Nations

'When the Son of man shall come in His glory,
and all the holy angels with Him,
then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
And before Him shall be gathered all nations:
and He shall separate them one from another,
as a shepherd divideth His sheep from the goats'
(Mat 25:31-32)​

Hello @Hidden In Him,

These are just thoughts concerning these two verses. I am just beginning to get to grips with this passage you have raised, so please bear with me. I am grateful for Bible marginal notes, which are a guide to my search:-

* There is no resurrection mentioned here, therefore this is not a reference to Revelation 20.
* The GATHERING, as you have said, is to be upon the earth:-

‘Come near, ye nations, to hear;
and hearken, ye people:
let the earth hear, and all that is therein;
the world, and all things that come forth of it.
For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations,
and His fury upon all their armies:
He hath utterly destroyed them,
He hath delivered them to the slaughter.’

(Isaiah 34:1-2)​

‘For, behold, in those days, and in that time,
when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
I will also gather all nations,
and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat,
and will plead with them there
for My People and for My heritage Israel,
whom they have scattered among the nations,
and parted My land.'

(Joel 3:1,2)​

‘Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen,
and gather yourselves together round about:
thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Let the heathen be wakened,
and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat:

for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.’
(Joel 3:11 &12)​

* There are Three classes here and not two, and the test is not works, but, as you have said, @Hidden In Him: the treatment of the ‘brethren’, by the other two:- likened to 'sheep' and 'goats'; into which two categories individuals from among these nations will be divided.

* No ‘Believer’ (ie., one who - 'received the word') is here (Acts 2:41; 1 Thessalonians 2:13); for these are, and will be, ‘taken out of all nations’ (Acts 15:14).

* Israel not gathered here, because, not reckoned among the nations’ (Numbers 23:9)

* The Church of the Mystery (Ephesians 3) is not here either, because the reward here is, from the foundation of the world’ (v.34); while the church was chosen before that (Ephesians 1:4).

'According as He hath chosen us in Him
before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:

* The throne is that of David (Luke 1:32-33).

'He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest:
and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David:
And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of His kingdom there shall be no end.'

Praise God!

* Hope these will be of use in the building blocks of thought that you are receiving.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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charity

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Matthew 25:31-46

'When the Son of man shall come in His glory,
and all the holy angels with Him,
then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory,
and before Him shall be gathered all nations'

(Matthew 25:31-32)

Hello again, @Hidden In Him,

The glory of the Lord will not rise upon Israel until the Lord of glory returns (see Isaiah 59:20-21):-

'And the Redeemer shall come to Zion,
.. and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob,"
.... saith the LORD.
"As for me, this is my covenant with them,"
.. saith the LORD;
.... "My Spirit that is upon thee,
...... and My words which I have put in thy mouth,
........ shall not depart out of thy mouth,
.......... nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
............ nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed,"
.............. saith the LORD,
................ " from henceforth and for ever."'

(Isaiah 59:20-21)

* Only when the Lord's way has been prepared, shall 'the glory of the Lord be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together' (Isaiah 40:3-5).

* When the Lord brings again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, Joel declares that the Lord will also gather all nations, and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for 'My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations and parted My land' (Joel 3:2). The time is explicit in this prophecy, 'For behold in those days and in that time' refer back to Acts 2 where the words quoted by Peter on the day of Pentecost are found. In response to the words, 'I will also gather all nations' it is said in verse 11:-

'Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen (nations),
and gather yourselves together round about'
(Joel 3:11).

* The harvest is come (Joel 3:13), and the same phenomenon that is associated with the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord, is repeated here:-

'The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood'.
'For in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance'
'The sun and the moon shall be darkened ... the Lord also shall roar out of Zion ... The Lord your God dwelling in Zion'

(Joel 2:31, 32; 3:15-17)

* This gathering of the nations is comparable with the revelation of Matthew 25:32, which we have already seen, takes place,
'when the Son of man shall come in His glory, ... and sit upon the throne of His glory.'

* Just as there will be an inquisition into the way in which the nations have treated Israel (Joel 3:2-8), so there will be an inquisition as to the way the nations have treated the Lord's brethren (Matthew 25:35-44). For as Joel 3:12 declares 'there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about'. The 'mighty ones' of Joel 3:11 refer to the 'holy angels' who come with Him (Matthew 25:31). (Matthew. 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7).

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ref: An Alphabetical Analysis' Part 8.
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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You make a case for the teachings of men, for looking to the flesh, instead of looking up as you were informed, fulfilling many prophecies: Isaiah 30

So be it.


LOLOLOLOL It is quite a good thing that you have no ability to condemn anyone--least of all those, like me, who are in the Body of Christ. As seems usual for you, you have quite misapplied Scripture to suit your agenda.
 

charity

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Hi @Hidden In Him,

All of these things had the potential to have taken place at the end of the Acts period, if Israel had obeyed the Word of God spoken through Peter in Acts 3:19-20. Now it requires a future day.

Thank you once again,
In Christ Jesus
Chris :)
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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Matthew 25:31-46

'When the Son of man shall come in His glory,
and all the holy angels with Him,
then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory,
and before Him shall be gathered all nations'

(Matthew 25:31-32)

Hello again, @Hidden In Him,

The glory of the Lord will not rise upon Israel until the Lord of glory returns (see Isaiah 59:20-21):-

'And the Redeemer shall come to Zion,
.. and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob,"
.... saith the LORD.
"As for me, this is my covenant with them,"
.. saith the LORD;
.... "My Spirit that is upon thee,
...... and My words which I have put in thy mouth,
........ shall not depart out of thy mouth,
.......... nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
............ nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed,"
.............. saith the LORD,
................ " from henceforth and for ever."'

(Isaiah 59:20-21)

* Only when the Lord's way has been prepared, shall 'the glory of the Lord be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together' (Isaiah 40:3-5).

* When the Lord brings again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, Joel declares that the Lord will also gather all nations, and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for 'My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations and parted My land' (Joel 3:2). The time is explicit in this prophecy, 'For behold in those days and in that time' refer back to Acts 2 where the words quoted by Peter on the day of Pentecost are found. In response to the words, 'I will also gather all nations' it is said in verse 11:-

'Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen (nations),
and gather yourselves together round about'
(Joel 3:11).

* The harvest is come (Joel 3:13), and the same phenomenon that is associated with the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord, is repeated here:-

'The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood'.
'For in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance'
'The sun and the moon shall be darkened ... the Lord also shall roar out of Zion ... The Lord your God dwelling in Zion'

(Joel 2:31, 32; 3:15-17)

* This gathering of the nations is comparable with the revelation of Matthew 25:32, which we have already seen, takes place,
'when the Son of man shall come in His glory, ... and sit upon the throne of His glory.'

* Just as there will be an inquisition into the way in which the nations have treated Israel (Joel 3:2-8), so there will be an inquisition as to the way the nations have treated the Lord's brethren (Matthew 25:35-44). For as Joel 3:12 declares 'there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about'. The 'mighty ones' of Joel 3:11 refer to the 'holy angels' who come with Him (Matthew 25:31). (Matthew. 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7).

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ref: An Alphabetical Analysis' Part 8.


Yes, the Old Testament prophets spoke of a coming PHYSICAL reign of God on the earth, when long life will return and the Lord will rule, from Jerusalem, with "a rod of iron" (absolute rule of law). The Book of Isaiah and the Book of Ezekiel are very rich in information about the Millennial Reign of God Himself as King. It will be a mortal Kingdom (as death will still be present--Isaiah 65:20 says that only sinners (that is, those who do not obey the law) will die as young as 100). Also, Ezekiel speaks of the ruling "Prince" having sons. Since we know that resurrected beings will not be married (Jesus said that we will be like the angels in heaven, neither marrying nor being given in marriage) and it is unthinkable that resurrected beings would have children without marriage. We must conclude that the Millennial Kingdom will be largely comprised of mortal people.
 
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charity

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Yes, the Old Testament prophets spoke of a coming PHYSICAL reign of God on the earth, when long life will return and the Lord will rule, from Jerusalem, with "a rod of iron" (absolute rule of law). The Book of Isaiah and the Book of Ezekiel are very rich in information about the Millennial Reign of God Himself as King. It will be a mortal Kingdom (as death will still be present--Isaiah 66:20 says that only sinners (that is, those who do not obey the law) will die as young as 100). Also, Ezekiel speaks of the ruling "Prince" having sons. Since we know that resurrected beings will not be married (Jesus said that we will be like the angels in heaven, neither marrying nor being given in marriage) and it is unthinkable that resurrected beings would have children without marriage, we must conclude that the Millennial Kingdom will be largely comprised of mortal people.
Thank you, @Lady Crosstalk, :)

The chronology of end-time events, and their inter-relation, are still a bit muddled in my mind. So I found thinking on the subject of this thread interesting. My emphasis has been taken up with other areas of study, but perhaps now is the time for me to concentrate of these aspects.

Perhaps we can consult on these things again. :)
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

GodsGrace

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You have got to be kidding right?
You see...you pull out one sentence and it loses all its meaning.
I NEVER do this...
I post the entire reply to me and then I post my answer back.

How could Jesus not believe in being saved if that's one of the two reasons He came to us?

If it doesn't make sense with the rest that I've written, THEN please ask..and don't asume.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Hello @Hidden In Him,

These are just thoughts concerning these two verses. I am just beginning to get to grips with this passage you have raised, so please bear with me. I am grateful for Bible marginal notes, which are a guide to my search:-

* There is no resurrection mentioned here, therefore this is not a reference to Revelation 20.

Hi, Charity. It's good to study prophecy. Things become ever clearer the more you study it, even though it's a heady matter and can take many times going through before the pieces finally start to fit.

About this first line, yes you are correct. There is no resurrection mentioned, but it is implied in verse 4 that those who are given thrones are the saints of God:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection... (Revelation 20:4-6a)

Verse 6 is a reference to the following verses in Daniel 7:

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. (Daniel 7:26-27).
* The GATHERING, as you have said, is to be upon the earth:-

‘Come near, ye nations, to hear;
and hearken, ye people:
let the earth hear, and all that is therein;
the world, and all things that come forth of it.
For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations,
and His fury upon all their armies:
He hath utterly destroyed them,
He hath delivered them to the slaughter.’

(Isaiah 34:1-2)
‘For, behold, in those days, and in that time,
when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
I will also gather all nations,
and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat,
and will plead with them there
for My People and for My heritage Israel,
whom they have scattered among the nations,
and parted My land.'

(Joel 3:1,2)
‘Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen,
and gather yourselves together round about:
thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Let the heathen be wakened,
and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat:

for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.’
(Joel 3:11 &12)

Now, here is where I think you apply the words "plead with them there" in Isaiah 34:1-2 and "sit to judge the nations" in Joel 3:12 in a different sense than what they actually communicate. All these passages above are talking about the Battle of Armageddon, which will take place in the Valley of Jehoshaphat. "Plead with" essentially means pass judgment upon, as in a court room, and "sit to judge" carries much the same sense; of sitting in judgment over them.

So these events happen before Christ finally sets up His kingdom in Matthew 25:31-46. Those He will judge here will be those who survived the time of the great tribulation, during which the Battle of Armageddon will take place.

Does this clear things up for you a little bit? You quoted so much scripture that I'm not sure I treated everything, but that seems to be a synopsis of what you were presenting.
 

charity

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- #110
Hi, Charity. It's good to study prophecy. Things become ever clearer the more you study it, even though it's a heady matter and can take many times going through before the pieces finally start to fit.

About this first line, yes you are correct. There is no resurrection mentioned, but it is implied in verse 4 that those who are given thrones are the saints of God:
Hello @Hidden In Him,

The first line, (quote #103): - '* There is no resurrection mentioned here, therefore this is not a reference to Revelation 20.' - referred to the verses quoted at the head of my entry, which are the first two verse of the portion from Matthew that is the subject of the thread:-

'When the Son of man shall come in His glory,
and all the holy angels with Him,
then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
And before Him shall be gathered all nations:
and He shall separate them one from another,
as a shepherd divideth His sheep from the goats'

(Mat 25:31-32)

* There is no indication of a resurrection in these verses, it simply says, 'And before Him shall be gathered all nations.' So these nations are alive at the time of Christ's coming in His glory, as you have said. This passage therefore cannot be linked with Revelation 20:7-10, which follows the 1000 year reign, and precedes a resurrection of the dead and the judgement before the great white throne.

I believe you have mistaken my meaning, Hidden In Him. I am sorry I did not make myself more clear. :)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Hidden In Him

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Hello @Hidden In Him,

The first line, (quote #103): - '* There is no resurrection mentioned here, therefore this is not a reference to Revelation 20.' - referred to the verses quoted at the head of my entry, which are the first two verse of the portion from Matthew that is the subject of the thread:-

'When the Son of man shall come in His glory,
and all the holy angels with Him,
then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
And before Him shall be gathered all nations:
and He shall separate them one from another,
as a shepherd divideth His sheep from the goats'

(Mat 25:31-32)

* There is no indication of a resurrection in these verses, it simply says, 'And before Him shall be gathered all nations.' So these nations are alive at the time of Christ's coming in His glory, as you have said. So this passage cannot be linked with Revelation 20, which relates to a resurrection.

I believe you have mistaken my meaning, Hidden In Him. I am sorry I did not make myself more clear. :)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Oh!
Ok, LoL. Yeah, I was just waking up actually, and I don't read all that well until I get going. I hate when that happens, LoL.

Thanks for the posts! : )
 

Phoneman777

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Ok. That presents a thousand-year gap between when He comes and when He separates the sheep from the goats, but I understand what you are saying. I'm just not sold on the interpretation that it is referring to the GWT judgment.

But thanks for the post, Phoneman.
You're welcome :) Revelation is clear there's a thousand years between the resurrection of the just and the damned, and it is only at that time - when every single person whose ever lived will be alive - that the two classes can truly be said to be "separated", the righteous inside the city and the wicked outside, awaiting the fire from above.
 

David kilmer

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Now here's something to work with, and thanks for the post. The real nuts and bolts here is trying to discern how and by what means they would come to recognize Christ as not only Lord, but Savior, and it is clear from your quoted verse that they would have to at some point. But the interesting thing is that this event apparently happens after His return, since again, His judgment upon them isn't based upon their having believed in Him as Savior but for having helped those who did... One could say they believed after the rapture of the church, but this would become their justification. I think it suggests that justification by faith was there in their hearts all along for having chosen the good over the evil even when the church was still present. But it would take the return of the Lord and the establishment of His kingdom on earth before they made the determination to give their lives fully to Him, and have sought the forgiveness of their sins by the time they stood before Him...

Again, it goes back to the power of the conscience, and whether a man chooses to listen to it or not. Those guided by it will find their way to the Lord, to the truth, to salvation by grace, and to forgiveness. Those who don't never will.
I think the Devil created coffee and God created night. God created soy milk and dark and milky ways. In beginning nowGods son created red and red coffee.
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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Thank you, @Lady Crosstalk, :)

The chronology of end-time events, and their inter-relation, are still a bit muddled in my mind. So I found thinking on the subject of this thread interesting. My emphasis has been taken up with other areas of study, but perhaps now is the time for me to concentrate of these aspects.

Perhaps we can consult on these things again. :)
In Christ Jesus
Chris


The proper Scripture quote from Isaiah is 65:20 not 66:20. Sorry. :oops:
 

Enoch111

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I think the Devil created coffee and God created night. God created soy milk and dark and milky ways. In beginning now Gods son created red and red coffee.
Where did you come up with these incredibly bizarre ideas?