The Stunning Implications Of Matthew 25:31:46

bbyrd009 · Jul 22, 2019

David kilmer said:
I know he's a pathetic douche.

maybe, but also a great guy ok. We dont expect our wives to believe things the same way we do, so its prolly not fair to expect strangers to? And Christians have been convinced that their beliefs will be judged, so yes they are all deceived, but then all are deceived, too. Me included. Plus it would be hard for you at your age to understand how a Boomer even came to their beliefs prolly, the world has changed so drastically.

The good guys are now the bad guys in a way that is hard to even imagine happening, even though we can witness it happening in any "good" movement, always gets corrupted yeh? The best cure for Christianity is surely reading the Bible, but dont expect people who still hold what they call "beliefs" about the past or the future to be doing too much of that i guess, bc the Bible kills all those, and we have forgotten how to even have beliefs about today i guess. I mean i'm still working on this myself, ok, how to interact with someone who professes beliefs, very frustrating. See little kids being willful we can just tell them to shut up, right? lol

marks · Jul 22, 2019

ScottA said:
The new heavens and new earth are more and higher and perfect, just as God is perfect...which, yes, means spiritual. Which eye has not seen...but would certainly be all that we would consider good and more.

Hi Scott,

I've been waiting all weekend to get back to you on this, and to say thank you for sharpening me up on these points!

I've realize that I wasn't really grasping these parts of 1 Corinthians 15 correctly. Yes, different kinds of flesh . . . terestrial bodies, and celestial bodies, and yes, I think that the nature of the terestrial bodies that we experience now will be completely swallowed up in the superior nature of our celestial bodies.

Same with Creation.

Much love!!

Hidden In Him · Jul 22, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
ha well i get you, but you are still looking with two eyes, yeh? For a kingdom that comes by observation?

Ah, but see this is where I think a lot of hyper-spiritualizers get tripped up, including Dave L and maybe Scott. When He was talking about the kingdom not coming with observation, He was referring to how the kingdom of God had come among them when He walked the earth. This is why He follows the statement with,

"22 Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23 People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. 24 For the Son of Man in his day[d] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. (Luke 17:22-25)

It doesn't mean, however, that the kingdom would NEVER come without observation. This is throwing out more scripture than one can shake a stick at, but you could start with Daniel 7:13-14. Daniel's prophecies were in the context of talking about literal kingdoms on earth.

bbyrd009 said:
And i mean i dont expect a little convo with some guy on the web to change your mind either, ok,

What are you doing, selling yourself short?

bbyrd009 said:
Forget your desires, that will never manifest anyway, and embrace all the parts that are currently rejected, imo. How many of your current beliefs are actually Absolute Truths, that cannot even be questioned? Bc those are all false, virtually every one of them, imo

I notice you tend to pit one view against others as antithetical quite a lot, Byrd, but this isn't necessarily the case a lot of the time. I recall you saying things about "rejecting life more abundantly," but I'm not doing that, at least if you are referring to prospering as one's soul prospers first. I am filled with the Spirit of God, I walk in wisdom and revelation, and I live a blessed life. So don't always assume things about others. That is where I think you get into trouble with others in your posts. You start from assumptions that often aren't so.

I noticed you sent me other posts. Gonna have to wait to read them for a bit. Just waking up, and Amadeus' post wore me out right out of the gate, LoL.

Hidden In Him · Jul 22, 2019

brakelite said:
Think about it in relation to a court of law. The judgement, or as you put it, determination of guilt or innocence, is determined after the presentation of evidence right? We are justified by the blood of the Lamb, but the judgement/determination is based on the evidence... Or works which are produced as a result of our faith/acceptance of the gospel.
And don't confuse or conflate judgement with the execution of sentence. That is different again, and takes place as a result of the judgement.

This I fully agree with : )

David kilmer · Jul 22, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
Ah, but see this is where I think a lot of hyper-spiritualizers get tripped up, including Dave L and maybe Scott. When He was talking about the kingdom not coming with observation, He was referring to how the kingdom of God had come among them when He walked the earth. This is why He follows the statement with,

"22 Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23 People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. 24 For the Son of Man in his day[d] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. (Luke 17:22-25)

It doesn't mean, however, that the kingdom would NEVER come without observation. This is throwing out more scripture than one can shake a stick at, but you could start with Daniel 7:13-14. Daniel's prophecies were in the context of talking about literal kingdoms on earth.

What are you doing, selling yourself short?

I notice you tend to pit one view against others as antithetical quite a lot, Byrd, but this isn't necessarily the case a lot of the time. I recall you saying things about "rejecting life more abundantly," but I'm not doing that, at least if you are referring to prospering as one's soul prospers first. I am filled with the Spirit of God, I walk in wisdom and revelation, and I live a blessed life. So don't always assume things about others. That is where I think you get into trouble with others in your posts. You start from assumptions that often aren't so.

I noticed you sent me other posts. Gonna have to wait to read them for a bit. Just waking up, and Amadeus' post wore me out right out of the gate, LoL.

Hl, Jesus isn't the son of man, he's the son of God, and he's perfectly balanced.

Hidden In Him · Jul 22, 2019

David kilmer said:
Hl, Jesus isn't the son of man, he's the son of God, and he's perfectly balanced.

Well thank you for that, Kilmer.
If there's one thing I like in a person, it's that he's 100% perfectly balanced.
Like I always say, "A balanced guy is my kinda guy!"

Lady Crosstalk · Jul 22, 2019

David kilmer said:
Hl, Jesus isn't the son of man, he's the son of God, and he's perfectly balanced.

Actually, Jesus was/is the Son of Man (for that is what He called Himself on many occasions, in the gospels). But He is also the Son of God. He has two natures--human and divine. He is wholly God and wholly man in one Person. The union between these two natures is called the "hypostatic union" by theologians.

brakelite · Jul 22, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
This I fully agree with : )

Cool. Now take that very same concept into Daniel 7, a prophecy dealing with events from his time to our day and the second coming. Remember also your view that you don't see any evidence of a judgement before the second coming.
In the original Hebrew Daniel 7 is written in chiastic form, a literary structure which reveals the following...
In verses 2-8 it is in prose, and speaks of events to take place on earth. The rise and fall of nations, being Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome. It also touches on the rise of early Europe (the 7 surviving horns) and the Little horn which rise among them (Antichrist) and be responsible for the the destruction of three of the ten.

Verses 9-10 is written in poetic firm and relates to events in heaven. This event is in the form of judgement... The books of heaven being opened.

Verses 11-12 take us back to prose, and again regards to earth, and the continuing role of the Little horn. Daniel, while viewing the event in heaven, was distracted and the manner of speaking of the Little horn brought Daniels attention back to Earth...I beheld then because of the voice... This same horn is them destroyed... The sentence of execution carried out.

Verses 13-14, again in poetic firm takes us back to heaven and the subject specifically deals with the second coming of Christ, Jesus being brought before the Father before receiving from the Father His kingdom... Which of course includes His subjects.

So we have a definite time line. The rise of nations from Babylon going forward, 500bc to the fall of Rome in 400ad .
The rise of the papal Antichrist which grew out of Rome at the time of Rome's demise, although certain characteristics continues on in the papal system that was inherited from those former pagan empires, which is entirely appropriate considering the horn grew out of the last of them.
During his life time, whilst still active and working against God's people, the little horn is judged, along with those in confederate with it, the verdict passed, and at the second coming, the sentence carried out.
This is perfectly in line and in harmony with the very justice systems we operate under today, which had their Genesis in scripture. Judgement must take place before the second coming in order to be in harmony with the ways of God and the principles of righteousness which He established.
Also, at the harvest, how else would the angels know who was worthy of being reaped for the kingdom, and who for burning?

Hidden In Him · Jul 22, 2019

brakelite said:
Cool. Now take that very same concept into Daniel 7, a prophecy dealing with events from his time to our day and the second coming. Remember also your view that you don't see any evidence of a judgement before the serving coming.
In the original Hebrew Daniel 7 is written in chiastic form, a literary structure which reveals the following...
In verses 2-8 it is in prose, and speaks of events to take place on earth. The rise and fall of nations, being Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome. It also touches on the rise of early Europe (the 7 surviving horns) and the Little horn which rise among them (Antichrist) and be responsible for the the destruction of three of the ten.

Verses 9-10 is written in poetic firm and relates to events in heaven. This event is in the form of judgement... The books of heaven being opened.

Verses 11-12 take us back to prose, and again regards to earth, and the continuing role of the Little horn. Daniel, while viewing the event in heaven, was distracted and the manner of speaking of the Little horn brought Daniels attention back to Earth...I beheld then because of the voice... This same horn is them destroyed... The sentence of execution carried out.

Verses 13-14, again in poetic firm takes us back to heaven and the subject specifically feels with the second coming of Christ, Jesus being brought before the Father before receiving from the Father His kingdom.

So we have a definite time line. The rise of nations from Babylon going forward, 500bc to the fall of Rome in 400ad .
The rise of the papal Antichrist which grew out of Rome at the time of Rome's demise, although certain characteristics continues on in the papal system that was inherited from those former pagan empires, which is entirely appropriate considering the horn grew out of the last of them.
During his life time, whilst still active and working against God's people, the little horn is judged, along with those in confederate with it, the verdict passed, and at the second coming, the sentence carried out.
This is perfectly in line and harmony with the very justice systems we operate under today, which had their Genesis in scripture. Judgement must take place before the second coming in order to be in harmony with the ways of God and the principles of righteousness which He established.

This looks like work (but I will see if I can make an attempt tomorrow).

Thanx 4 the post.

David kilmer · Jul 23, 2019

brakelite said:
Cool. Now take that very same concept into Daniel 7, a prophecy dealing with events from his time to our day and the second coming. Remember also your view that you don't see any evidence of a judgement before the second coming.
In the original Hebrew Daniel 7 is written in chiastic form, a literary structure which reveals the following...
In verses 2-8 it is in prose, and speaks of events to take place on earth. The rise and fall of nations, being Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome. It also touches on the rise of early Europe (the 7 surviving horns) and the Little horn which rise among them (Antichrist) and be responsible for the the destruction of three of the ten.

Verses 9-10 is written in poetic firm and relates to events in heaven. This event is in the form of judgement... The books of heaven being opened.

Verses 11-12 take us back to prose, and again regards to earth, and the continuing role of the Little horn. Daniel, while viewing the event in heaven, was distracted and the manner of speaking of the Little horn brought Daniels attention back to Earth...I beheld then because of the voice... This same horn is them destroyed... The sentence of execution carried out.

Verses 13-14, again in poetic firm takes us back to heaven and the subject specifically deals with the second coming of Christ, Jesus being brought before the Father before receiving from the Father His kingdom... Which of course includes His subjects.

So we have a definite time line. The rise of nations from Babylon going forward, 500bc to the fall of Rome in 400ad .
The rise of the papal Antichrist which grew out of Rome at the time of Rome's demise, although certain characteristics continues on in the papal system that was inherited from those former pagan empires, which is entirely appropriate considering the horn grew out of the last of them.
During his life time, whilst still active and working against God's people, the little horn is judged, along with those in confederate with it, the verdict passed, and at the second coming, the sentence carried out.
This is perfectly in line and in harmony with the very justice systems we operate under today, which had their Genesis in scripture. Judgement must take place before the second coming in order to be in harmony with the ways of God and the principles of righteousness which He established.
Also, at the harvest, how else would the angels know who was worthy of being reaped for the kingdom, and who for burning?

But in "daniels" time he was ordained to be black. Like someone else who's in the family. Black dark and like Dante.

David kilmer · Jul 23, 2019

brakelite said:
Cool. Now take that very same concept into Daniel 7, a prophecy dealing with events from his time to our day and the second coming. Remember also your view that you don't see any evidence of a judgement before the second coming.
In the original Hebrew Daniel 7 is written in chiastic form, a literary structure which reveals the following...
In verses 2-8 it is in prose, and speaks of events to take place on earth. The rise and fall of nations, being Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome. It also touches on the rise of early Europe (the 7 surviving horns) and the Little horn which rise among them (Antichrist) and be responsible for the the destruction of three of the ten.

Verses 9-10 is written in poetic firm and relates to events in heaven. This event is in the form of judgement... The books of heaven being opened.

Verses 11-12 take us back to prose, and again regards to earth, and the continuing role of the Little horn. Daniel, while viewing the event in heaven, was distracted and the manner of speaking of the Little horn brought Daniels attention back to Earth...I beheld then because of the voice... This same horn is them destroyed... The sentence of execution carried out.

Verses 13-14, again in poetic firm takes us back to heaven and the subject specifically deals with the second coming of Christ, Jesus being brought before the Father before receiving from the Father His kingdom... Which of course includes His subjects.

So we have a definite time line. The rise of nations from Babylon going forward, 500bc to the fall of Rome in 400ad .
The rise of the papal Antichrist which grew out of Rome at the time of Rome's demise, although certain characteristics continues on in the papal system that was inherited from those former pagan empires, which is entirely appropriate considering the horn grew out of the last of them.
During his life time, whilst still active and working against God's people, the little horn is judged, along with those in confederate with it, the verdict passed, and at the second coming, the sentence carried out.
This is perfectly in line and in harmony with the very justice systems we operate under today, which had their Genesis in scripture. Judgement must take place before the second coming in order to be in harmony with the ways of God and the principles of righteousness which He established.
Also, at the harvest, how else would the angels know who was worthy of being reaped for the kingdom, and who for burning?

They'd know who not to burn due to relativism relativity to modern day family and living and taste and style. Importance as well. And Gods who are heads shouldn't die either. Marvelous works and justification.

David kilmer · Jul 23, 2019

God didn't create all things. Everybody put in work. Stealing isn't always a good thing....

David kilmer · Jul 23, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
Well thank you for that, Kilmer.
If there's one thing I like in a person, it's that he's 100% perfectly balanced.
Like I always say, "A balanced guy is my kinda guy!"

What if he is the son or nothing? He ISN'T it.

David kilmer · Jul 23, 2019

He's the son of man.

marks · Jul 24, 2019

Hidden In Him said:
This looks like work (but I will see if I can make an attempt tomorrow).

Thanx 4 the post.

Be careful with those chiasms.

Hebrew writers seemed to love them, but it is in fact a dead language, and our assignments of chiastic structure can be just that. If we aren't separating and matching correctly we can get way off.

They wrote in Chiasms
And many of their words are prose
They showed the truth in poetry
Some see poetry where it's not
When words are not Chiastic
We may still read them that way.

Much love!

marks · Jul 24, 2019

brakelite said:
We are justified by the blood of the Lamb, but the judgement/determination is based on the evidence...

Evidence of what exactly? God knows whether we are justified or not, does He not?

Much love!

brakelite · Jul 24, 2019

marks said:
Evidence of what exactly? God knows whether we are justified or not, does He not?

Much love!

Yes, God knows. But does everyone else? And is that important, that everyone knows? Yes, because the whole controversy over sin, the rebellion of Lucifer, and our side in the controversy, goes deeper than simply being about us. When Lucifer rebelled in heaven, he cast doubt on God's character. He lied, slandered, deceived, and one third of the angels and ALL mankind believed him. That is why God did not simply squash Lucifer on the spot but allowed things to play out. What is essential is for all creation to be at peace regarding God's character.. To remove all doubt. Vindication of God and the methods and ways He had dealt with the controversy is easy more important than you just being saved. That is why it isn't enough for just God to know.
Justice must not just be done, but SEEN to be done.

brakelite · Jul 24, 2019

brakelite said:
Yes, God knows. But does everyone else? And is that important, that everyone knows? Yes, because the whole controversy over sin, the rebellion of Lucifer, and our side in the controversy, goes deeper than simply being about us. When Lucifer rebelled in heaven, he cast doubt on God's character. He lied, slandered, deceived, and one third of the angels and ALL mankind believed him. That is why God did not simply squash Lucifer on the spot but allowed things to play out. What is essential is for all creation to be at peace regarding God's character.. To remove all doubt. Vindication of God and the methods and ways He had dealt with the controversy is easy more important than you just being saved. That is why it isn't enough for just God to know.
Justice must not just be done, but SEEN to be done.

Lucifer began an idea. That God couldn't be trusted. That His rule was arbitrary and unjust. That Lucifer, Satan, could do better. So God have Satan his opportunity to prove himself. Now if God had destroyed Lucifer right at the beginning, that would not have solved the issue, if anything, it would have made it worse. Because you cannot kill an idea by killing it's creator. And killing Lucifer would have merely confirmed everything he had said of God. And the vast majority of mankind still believes him.

brakelite · Jul 24, 2019

brakelite said:
Lucifer began an idea. That God couldn't be trusted. That His rule was arbitrary and unjust. That Lucifer, Satan, could do better. So God have Satan his opportunity to prove himself. Now if God had destroyed Lucifer right at the beginning, that would not have solved the issue, if anything, it would have made it worse. Because you cannot kill an idea by killing it's creator. And killing Lucifer would have merely confirmed everything he had said of God. And the vast majority of mankind still believes him.

Isaiah 45:6

marks · Jul 24, 2019

brakelite said:
So God have Satan his opportunity to prove himself.

That's something God did regarding Job. Satan thought he was the better judge of man. God proved otherwise.

Much love!

The Stunning Implications Of Matthew 25:31:46

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