How Can a Loving God Send People To Hell?

(Sasha;63410)
Personal prayer lanuage!! No one understands!!! It edifies self not because you're praying for yourself but, because it is building up the spiritman (you) and summitting the fleshman, (your mind) to the holy spirit (who is the one praying through you spirit in tongues).It doesn't matter if it is an unknown language or a forieng language, what matters is it is The holy spirit praying through you.it is the holy spirit that gave them utterence, then and it is the holy spirit that gives us utterence today.
I understand and agree!

I struggle with these issues a little bit as well, but Scripture tells us very clearly that God's ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isaiah 55:9). God is perfect and His decisions are perfect. I don't like the thought of people being tormented eternally in the Lake of Fire, but I believe that God is righteous, merciful, and just, and I am willing to let Him execute justice in any way He sees fit. God's view of justice is not necessarily the same as our human view of justice!

Lets understand one thing the Kennites were the Old testament name for what the New testament calls Tares they are one in the same. They are not of Gods making but of Satans rebellion against God. They are not a race but they are those who are born as all with free will can choose to be saved should they desire. They are spirtually of their father.. Satan.. They actively work against Gods plan. If you dont think they exist read the parable of the tares.Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts. Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments. Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse It is not by accident the pluarl is used here you will follow either our true Father or the fake father

(Christina;63598)
Lets understand one thing the Kennites were the Old testament name for what the New testament calls Tares they are one in the same. They are not of Gods making but of Satans rebellion against God. They are not a race but they are those who are born as all with free will can choose to be saved should they desire. They are spirtually of their father.. Satan.. They actively work against Gods plan. If you dont think they exist read the parable of the tares.
True, But Satan and Eve giving birth to Cain itself creates a whole race in itself, therefore they are Kenites, (OT) which are tares, (NT) because Satan is not human. (Ezekiel 28:14)

While that is true on one level Jordan the DNA has been so watered down by intermarriages I don't think there is a distinguishing Race we must judge them by their fruits. I think this is why God changed the term from Kennites to tares because they could no longer be distinguished by their bloodline but must be distinguished by their fruits

(Christina;63604)
While that is true on one level Jordan the DNA has been so watered down by intermarriages I don't think there is a distinguishing Race we must judge them by their fruits. I think this is why God changed the term from Kennites to tares because they could no longer be distinguished by their bloodline but must be distinguished by their fruits
I know, I only wanted to post the beginning because you can't have intermarriages without the beginning of two races (Adam's and Satan's as they are the main two race) As I said earlier, you can't see a spritual Kenites (tares, IE intermarriages) without a physical Kenites (Genesis 3:15, IE race)I just hope one day Tim could see that.

Well we must remember that believing in a two seed doctrine is a matter of understanding Gods plan and Satans attempt to stop it. Not a matter of anyone salvationI think Tim and all others with eyes to see understand this negative side of scripture exists even if they dont agree with the means he(satan) may have used to accomplish it. It is not required to understand or believe this doctrine to be saved as you well know. Thats why this doctrine is better kept in the deeper study forum. Where one can choose to study and understand it or not.

(Christina;63606)
Well we must remember that believing in a two seed doctrine is a matter of understanding Gods plan and Satans attempt to stop it. Not a matter of anyone salvationI think Tim and all others with eyes to see understand this negative side of scripture exists even if they dont agree with the means he(satan) may have used to accomplish it. It is not required to understand or believe this doctrine to be saved as you well know. Thats why this doctrine is better kept in the deeper study forum. Where one can choose to study and understand it or not.
That's also true and 100% correct. :amen:But sometimes I look at it like "Where are they going?" because I get worried about people that might fall under Satan's trap. Again, not a salvational issue problem.

No one can understand the biblical concept of Hell from teachings of most churches today or Men,They have come to see a general concept. rather than facts. You must go to the the origial Words used there are more than one word used for this idea of Hell and more than one single thought conveyed in scripture In the King James Bible, the term "hell" is used 54 times; 31 times in the Old Testament, and 23 times in the New Testament. What is the meaning of the word "hell" in the bible? In the Old Testament, it is translated from one word, Sheol. In the New Testament, "hell" is translated from three words, tartaroo, Hades, and Gehenna. Let us look at their meanings. 1) Tartaroo [Greek New Testament]:"Hell" is translated only one time from tartaroo, which is from the root Tartaros, which means "the deepest abyss of Hades" (2 Peter 2:4). Apparently, Peter was not writing about a place of flames and torment because "the angels that sinned" are there "to be reserved unto judgment." It would not make sense that angels would be burning in hell before judgment is pronounced on them. If angels are being reserved for judgment, it means they haven’t been judged yet. After all, an accused murderer wouldn't serve 25 years and then be judged to see if he belongs there or not. If the wicked were to live in a burning hell, they’d have eternal life, just as the righteous, differing only in its quality. The penalty for sin is death (Romans 6:23), not eternal life. Aion (Greek New Testament) / Oham = Hebrew (Hebrew Old Testament) [most Bibles put "forever" or "everlasting"]: First we need to check the background of these words: Before the Hebrew Old Testament was translated into Greek (200-300 B.C., according to Prideaux, or during the reign of Ptolemy Philadelphus, 285-247 B. C., say other authorities) this word aionion was in common use by the Greeks. Homer, Hesiod, Aeschylus, Pindar, Sophocles, Aristotle, Hippocrates, Empedocles, Euripedes, Philoctetes, and Plato, all use the word, but never once does one of them give it the sense of eternity. I dont fully agree with every single word on this site but it is a good run down of the subject http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/hell.html

(Christina;63606)
Well we must remember that believing in a two seed doctrine is a matter of understanding Gods plan and Satans attempt to stop it. Not a matter of anyone salvationI think Tim and all others with eyes to see understand this negative side of scripture exists even if they dont agree with the means he(satan) may have used to accomplish it. It is not required to understand or believe this doctrine to be saved as you well know. Thats why this doctrine is better kept in the deeper study forum. Where one can choose to study and understand it or not.
I agree that it's deeper and I rather keep my mouth shut from here on regarding this--- didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but rather to make people realize that these are complex doctrines tossed about for years with commentaries by many sources seeing various sides. And we are all entitled to chose the side based on the evidence that we think God gave to us foremost by His Word, but also in some of these other marvelous writings.Now, back to our "hot" subject---- hell.

When we become Christians, we come before the bar of God's justice as repentant sinners. We claim the death of Jesus as payment for all our sins-past, present, and future. From that moment on, we form a new and different relationship with the law. In time past we were afraid of its judgment; now we voluntarily submit ourselves to its judgment and teaching, that we may learn what sin is and how to refrain from sinning. As Isaiah said, we begin to learn righteousness.So this new relationship with the law is known to us as learning obedience, or sanctification. It comes AFTER and BECAUSE OF justification. We submit ourselves to the fiery law, and Jesus leads us through the fire of circumstances, a baptism of fire, and God begins to refine us as gold. As we draw near to Him, He speaks to us out of the midst of the fire even as He spoke to Israel of old.This is as fearsome to our flesh today as it was to Israel at Sinai. The fire activates our inner fears that always accompany the sin in our hearts. Men today still run from the fiery law that God spoke to men out of the midst of the fire. They are still afraid of it, and out of this fear came the antinomian doctrine ("anti-law"). These are those who justify their sin by saying, "We are no longer under the law, but under grace." What they really mean is, "We will uphold the laws that we agree with, such as those that define murder, theft, and adultery as sin; but anyone who brings up a law we disagree with or do not want to comply with-well, we are not under the law but under grace."Most people misunderstand Paul's statement in Romans 6:14 where he says, "you are not under law, but under grace." In the Bible, when a man was convicted of sin by the law of God, he was "under law" until such time as the debt was paid. For instance, if convicted of stealing $1,000, the law would tell him to pay his victim double restitution, or $2,000. If he could not pay the debt, he had to work off the debt until it was paid. The time it took to work off the debt was the time the man was "under the law." Once the debt was paid, he was "under grace," because his sin no longer had dominion over him. He was forgiven.Paul was telling us that Jesus Christ has paid the penalty for our sin. Hence, we are not under law, but under grace. Our sin no longer has dominion over us. But does this mean we may now continue in sin? Of course not. Sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4). The law tells us what sin is. The law was never meant to justify sinners, nor could it. However, the solution is not to put away the law, thereby legalizing sin. The solution is to apply Jesus' blood to our sins, believing that He has paid the full penalty for all our sin. This puts us "under grace" so that we are free to be servants of God in obedience to His law. We were justified in order to begin learning obedience to the will of God. The foundational revelation of God's will came through Moses in the divine law.God will judge the world by His fiery law, for that is how all sin is judged. A study of the law itself will show us the true purpose of judgment. Isaiah 26:9 says:9 For when the earth experiences Thy judgments, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.The judgments of the law are corrective and remedial. They are designed to bring about true forgiveness, not a perpetual state of unforgiveness. The purpose of the Age of Tabernacles is to give the earth a sabbatical rest in the seventh thousand year, so that the people will be free to learn the ways of God. We are about to enter into a time when all nations will see the exaltation of the Kingdom of God and its glory. They will see the blessings of its citizens and desire to learn its laws (Isaiah 2:2-4). They will accept Jesus Christ as the King of the Earth and turn the whole earth into a Universal Kingdom. They will not flee in terror at His judgments; they will see the justice and mercy of God's law in direct contrast to the laws of men, and they will rejoice at His marvelous wisdom.Logabe

In Malachi 3:2 and 3 the prophet says:2 But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3 And He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness.Four hundred years after Malachi penned these words, John the Baptist said of Jesus in Matt. 3:11, 12:11 As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.Jesus Himself said in Luke 12:49, 49 "I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!There is no record that Jesus ever burned anyone with fire when He came 2,000 years ago. He did not call fire down from heaven upon His enemies. However, His ministry did burn the chaff out of people, most notably His disciples. It was not a literal fire, but the spiritual fire of tribulation, trials, and testings of their faith.It was a common teaching in the early Church that the baptism of fire was to be applied in two different ages: (1) in the present age, when we repent, or accuse ourselves before God, submitting to His discipline, even as David did; and (2) in the next age, when our works are tried by fire (1 Cor. 3:12-15). Both occasions were considered to be baptisms of fire. Those who wished to avoid the second one must submit to the first. In either case, they said, we must enter the Kingdom, or Paradise, by means of the flaming sword of the cherubim who guard the tree of life (Genesis 3:24).Not that this concept was especially new, for all of the men and women trained of God throughout the Old Testament went through the same crucible of fire. Jesus intimated that this fire had already been kindled. It is the way God has always refined His people to separate dross from gold. It is the way God removes the chaff from the wheat in our hearts. For thousands of years, God has dealt with His people by this "fire." He has done it for two reasons: (1) To cause us to know Him as He is, for He has revealed Himself to us as fire; and (2) to train us for service.We are all born with hearts that are "desperately wicked." The gold in our heart is alloyed, mixed with impurities not readily apparent until He sits as the great Refiner. He puts our hearts into various solutions and begins to stir the mixture, patiently waiting for the big reaction. When the time is right, suddenly a moment of crisis hits, and a lesser metal crystallizes and falls to the bottom or foams to the top. The impurities are dealt with one by one, using different solutions, until finally a fine gold powder falls out of solution, ready to be put in the fire to melt it into a solid lump.When people face adversity, they often go to their pastors to find out why God allowed such awful things to happen to them. They get many different responses, but often the pastor quickly tries to justify God. "Don't blame it on God; it's the devils fault," they say. Or some say, "God is obviously very angry with you; you must have done something terrible to deserve God's wrath like that." (One of Job's friends believed this, but he was wrong.)More often than not, God is merely refining you. It's not that you have done something bad that brought God's judgment upon you. We all go through such trials periodically. It is, of course, because we are all alloyed, so in that sense it is because of sin within us. But He does not subject us to the fire for the purpose of destroying us, but of refining us to teach us righteousness.Until we know this side of God's nature, we do not really know Him very well at all.Logabe

The Bible speaks of a final day of judgment where all men will stand before the Great White Throne (Rev. 15:11-15). Here is where God will foreclose on all debts from the beginning. Here is where all men will be held accountable for their actions that they did in their life on earth.The Bible speaks of this judgment in terms of “fire.” Some think this “fire” is a literal torture pit. It is not. The divine law never once dispenses torture as a judgment for any sin.Deut. 4:12 tells us that God manifests Himself as a fire. In the New Testament, we read in Heb. 12:29 that God Himself is a consuming fire. This simply means that the presence of God will consume whatever is not good. Further, His judgments are designed to correct men, not to destroy them. They are designed to restore the lawful order, so that whatever men have done to violate the rights of others will be righted.The law's purpose is to obtain justice for the wronged and forgiveness for the sinner who wronged those other people.The divine law itself is the “lake of fire.” Moses tells us in Deut. 33:2 "that the law is a “fiery law” in His hand."Daniel 7:9 also pictures that final throne of God. He says that the throne itself is a fire, out of which comes a “fiery stream” that judges all men. It is simply a metaphoric way of saying that God's fiery law will judge all men. But to know the nature of that fire, one must study the divine law itself. And not once does the divine law prescribe torture for any sin.Thus, the “lake of fire” in the Bible is never taken as literally as some have interpreted it.Logabe

From the beginning, Moses wrote that the penalty for sin was death, saying in Deut. 30:15 and 16, “I am setting in front of you today life and prosperity, death and adversity, in that I command you to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, statutes, and judgments, that you may live and multiply.”He was telling the people that to violate God's laws was the way of death. In the New Testament, the apostle Paul put it this way in Rom. 6:23, “The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life.” There was no judgment of God's law that even implied torture in a literal fire for any sin. The penalty was merely death.Jesus Christ came to pay the full penalty for our sin and for the sin of the whole world. This did not mean that Jesus would have to burn in the pit of hell. Not even for a moment—much less for eternity! He paid the full penalty for sin by dying on the cross, not by burning for eternity. If never-ending torture in hell were really the penalty for sin, then Jesus would still be there! Yet we find that Jesus was only required to be dead for three days.But God is not so unjust as to torture people for disobeying Him. The nature of the “fire” is defined by the divine law itself, and the duration of the judgment is limited by the law of Jubilee. (Lev. 25:28)Because of Adam's sin, all men have become mortal. That in itself is a judgment for sin. But the final judgment is the “lake of fire, which is the second death” (Rev. 20:14). This type of death is of a different sort. It speaks of the future age when the unbelievers who did not avail themselves of Jesus' offer of redemption will remain mortal and will have to learn right and wrong as servants of God.In the final analysis, the law says that if a man cannot pay a debt (which is incurred by sin), he is to work as a bondservant to pay the debt. If the debt is too great to be paid, he must work until the year of Jubilee sets him free.The unbelievers at the Great White Throne will be sentenced to work as bondservants until the final Jubilee sets them free. The purpose of this is not so that their masters can act like tyrants over a bunch of slaves. The purpose is given in Isaiah 26:9, where the prophet says, “When God's judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.”In other words, the purpose of putting bond-servants under masters is so that the sinners of the earth may learn the will of God and learn to follow Christ. Their “masters” will teach them and train them in the laws of God. What a happy time!For this reason Psalm 130:4 says, “There is forgiveness with Thee [God], in order that You may be respected.” We respect those who have the ability to forgive, not those who refuse to forgive after a certain deadline. God has often been presented as One who either will not or cannot forgive sin, once a man has completed his life on earth. It is no wonder so many have no respect for God. But I say that God has been misrepresented.When the time comes that God rules the earth through Jesus Christ and the “Sons of God,” the nations will rejoice. Finally, there will be true justice and mercy in the courts. Psalm 67:4 says, “O let the nations be glad and sing for joy; for You will judge the nations upon earth.”Logabe

God said in Num. 14:15 and 16 that if He were to destroy the people, it would be admitting that He was not powerful enough to do what He had said He would do. The people of the other nations would say that it was because He “was not able to bring this people into the land which He promised them by oath.”So God allowed Moses to be tempted to see if he would take the bait. But Moses had no such ambitions to make his own family the chosen people. Moses then challenged God in an extraordinary manner, telling Him that the nations would think God is not able to perform His will—that man's will was stronger than God's will.God's response was to tell Moses in Num. 14:21, “as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord.”Not only was God able to bring this one nation into the land God had promised, but He was also able to fill the whole earth with His glory. In other words, man may temporarily remain in bondage as a slave to sin, but ultimately, God's will is that the whole earth would be filled with His glory. God's will is to save all men (1 Tim. 2:4). There is nothing and no one on earth that can prevent this from taking place. Either men will consent to be redeemed in this age, or they will do so after the final judgment at the Great White Throne.One may do this the easy way or the hard way. But either way, God is God, and His will shall ultimately prevail. By the time of the final Jubilee, when He sets all men free, they will be filled with His glory. The prophet echoes this verse in Hab. 2:14, saying that, “the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.”How much of the sea is covered by water? One hundred percent of it.How much of the earth will be covered by the knowledge of the Lord? One hundred percent.That is how the prophet interpreted what God said to Moses. It means that all men will be saved, and God's presence will fill the entire earth. Keep in mind that men were made with the dust of the ground. God intends to fill the whole earth, which includes all of humanity.Logabe

Before I became a christian, I remembered asking a friend of mine how such a loving God could send anybody to hell. He responded very simply."Well, ask yourself this..." He said, "What is God offering to save you from?" I was stubborn and kept on saying, "What about those people who don't want to accept his gift?"He smiled and said, "Well, that makes them accountable for their sins. So knowing that God's gift is the greatest gift of all and conciously rejecting that gift, not willing to turn away from your sins, you have only yourself to blame." I had no more questions after this.

Our God would not be one of justice if there were no hell. It is the love of God that keeps the unrepentant sinners away from those that choose to be with Him.