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So, that's where you learned some of your erroneous theology,So I visited a Southern Baptist Church and learned about the Baptist Faith and Message (a pretty cool little booklet).
I do not believe that only the unregenerate have beenThe unregenerate person wants eternal life as well as pleasing the carnal nature. His/her out is that he/she does not believe in salvation by works rather he/she believes in salvation by grace. He/she picks all the texts that support salvation by grace while ignoring the responsibility to live lawfully.... in so doing, he/she attempts to assuage his/her conscience.
You're ignorant when it comes to Satan's effectI wouldn't give that much glory to satan.
You're ignorant when it comes to Satan's effect
upon the world and upon God's people!
.
Sure it makes sense.So Adam had free will untainted and still sinned. But now we don’t have free will but still sin? That makes ZERO sense.
Oops. I thought we were having an honest conversation with different opinions. I see that I was wrong.I guess David was looking forward to going to hell to follow his sin filled baby.
OSAS is Perseverance of the Saints ... as in Those God has Justified, God has Glorified (Rom 8:29-30) and God will finish what God started (Phil 1:6) and the Holy Spirit GUARANTEES our inheritance (Eph 1:13-14) and Jesus promised to raise those that the Father draws (John 6:44) and I am secure between the hand of the Father and the hand of the Son (John 10:27-29) ... therefore my faith is a living faith (James 2:14-17) and I am pleased to walk in the good works that God has prepared for me to do (Eph 2:10).So, that's where you learned some of your erroneous theology,
such as OSAS and cessationism.
I only got as far as this.OSAS is Perseverance of the Saints ... as in Those God has Justified, God has Glorified (Rom 8:29-30) and God will finish what God started (Phil 1:6) and the Holy Spirit GUARANTEES our inheritance (Eph 1:13-14) ...
Your reading difficulties are not really any of my business.I only got as far as this.,
Below (in blue) is what you posted:
"As salvation is a free gift, who gets that gift is under the control of the giver.
Those who have recieved the gift want it and a relationship with Jesus so they will naturaly want to obey him as an expression of their love for him."
First, God, the gift Giver, does not decided for men which men will or will not receive HIs free gift of grace, then those that first receive grace THEN obey. Men who of their own free will choose to conditonally obey God are the recipients of God's gift.
Those who follow Luther's "faith only" philosophy get it backwards. In order to provide cover for Luther's 'faith only' they try and find a way for a man to first unconditionally receive God's grace THEN one can obey.
When the Bible has obedience to God's will comes FIRST since it is a necessary condition that must be met BEFORE one receives God free gift of grace:
Bible:-----conditionally obey first>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>then receive grace
Luther:---unconditionally receive grace first>>>>>>>>>>>then obey
What Paul says in Ephesians really only applies to "the faithful", not to the unfaithful.The bible says in eph2:
“All of Adams grandchildren”. This is a false analogy and you know it’s not true. I have a good friend whose dad is an alcoholic. He has NEVER touched a drink. You know why? Because his dad is an alcoholic.Sure it makes sense.
Now does it make sense?
- A man named Adam (no relation) does not have a genetic propensity to alcoholism. Is it possible for Adam to still choose to drink to excess and become an Alcoholic? Why yes it is.
- Several generations later, through bad breeding, all of Adams Great-Great-Great-Grandchildren have a strong genetic predisposition to Alcoholism. Do the Adam's decedents have a choice to be born without the genetic predisposition to alcoholism? No, they do not. Can Adam's decedents still become the town drunk just like Adam did? Yes, they can.
- Does it make ZERO sense for both Adam and his decedents to all become drunks when Adam was not born with a genetic predisposition to alcoholism? No ... it makes perfect sense. Adams free will choice set his children and their children on a downward spiral that they were born into. Only AA (which admits we have a problem and calls on a HIGHER POWER to fix it) can break the downward spiral.
All I did was make application of your position. An honest application.Oops. I thought we were having an honest conversation with different opinions. I see that I was wrong.
David will go to the GRAVE like his child is in the GRAVE, but his child will not return from the GRAVE to the land of the LIVING.
I quit. You win.
No, you built a strawman from my position.All I did was make application of your position. An honest application.
David said...I shall go to him.
You really think “the grave” was all David had in mind? Why did David get up and worship? Don’t you think David expects to one day be with the lord?
An honest question? Where do you think the baby is today?
If you are being honest with your position you will say hell. I say heaven because the baby, though brought forth in iniquity, was born pure having committed no sin.
Sorry for trying to make an honest attempt at an analogy when I thought you were really trying to communicate. “Sin” is more powerful than “alcoholism” ... As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God. All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one." [Rom 3:10-12 NLT]“All of Adams grandchildren”. This is a false analogy and you know it’s not true. I have a good friend whose dad is an alcoholic. He has NEVER touched a drink. You know why? Because his dad is an alcoholic.
But, do children inherit the consequence of their parents bad decisions? Yes. All the time. But what we are talking about is GUILT not consequence. If someone’s dad was a criminal and in jail at the time of their birth, should we throw the child in jail as well? This is what your position teaches. Because Adam sinned the rest of the world comes out guilty having actually committed no crime but being born. Since when is being born a sin against God.
Who was held accountable for disobedience in the wilderness? Everybody?No, you built a strawman from my position.
I am not God, so who gets to go to Heaven is a question above my pay grade.
What do you make of God’s statement before the Great Flood of Noah ... did he forget to say “except those cute little toddlers”? At what age does the infant go from sinless to damned? This is your pandora’s box, I just wonder if you have really thought through your position.
You are misusing this passage like everyone else.Sorry for trying to make an honest attempt at an analogy when I thought you were really trying to communicate. “Sin” is more powerful than “alcoholism” ... As the Scriptures say, "No one is righteous--not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God. All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one." [Rom 3:10-12 NLT]
Of course I’ve thought this through. I’m in the process of raising 2 kids. One is 17 and the other is 11. Just the other day I was having a bible study with my 11 year old. I was taking an Old Testament lesson and making application to us today. (Already forgot what it was). Nothing real difficult.At what age does the infant go from sinless to damned? This is your pandora’s box, I just wonder if you have really thought through your position.