Religious Facade Christianity

amadeus · Jul 24, 2019

Not me said:
So if I do understand you correctly;

You can not trust the Holy Spirit in you to guide you into all truth.

A most fearful belief.

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

You most certainly can trust the Holy Spirit to guide you to truth, but consider what it means to be one of His sheep. If you are not... then you may well be hearing the voice of strangers instead of His voice.

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4

Those who know His voice will certainly continue to obey by continuing to seek His kingdom and His righteousness FIRST!

Nancy · Jul 24, 2019

Episkopos said:
It is one thing to claim the greatness of God...and quite another to vainly boast of one's own position in that greatness.

The Pharisees claimed to see. But in truth they were blind. Their blindness was such that they had exaggerated their position with God and were leading others astray as in...you do not enter in and you stop others from entering also.

Jesus said that because they said "I see" their sin remained.

But we have much greater claims happening today with even greater exaggerations being perpetrated.

People read themselves into the bible text with impunity. These see no need for the fear of the Lord or for humility. Only God can show them that their vessels are empty.

Just look at all the claims. Human effort masquerading as something divine. The fires of testing on judgment day will reveal their material for what it truly is.

The religious ditch (or field) is vast and there are many who have pitched their tent there.

If the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom...what is the lack of the fear of the Lord the beginning of?

"If the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom...what is the lack of the fear of the Lord the beginning of?"
Utter foolishness!

Not me · Jul 24, 2019

amadeus said:
The cart before the horse?

This is where each of us should be now:

"But seek ye first the [1] kingdom of God, and [2] his righteousness; and all [3] these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

To ever receive [3] we must pursue [1] and [2]… for how long?

Instead of continuing with the seeking of [1] His kingdom and [2] His righteousness, too many are going ahead and taking hold of [as if they really could] the things which are [3] to be added to the ones who continue to seek until the end of their course.

We are not to take even the "peace of God" with our yearning hearts and hands and leave off the "seeking". We are not to take even those things described in scripture as rewards. The rewards, when there really are to be rewards, are to be included in those things added... added not by you and not by me.

So then for how long do we continue to seek?

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." Matt 10:22

Does not this enduring to the end mean continuing to seek those two things to our end, the end of the time allotted to each of us?

Hi, I don’t understand the reference to; “the cart before the horse” ?

This is the scripture I was referring to with my first post on this thread.

Colossians 3:15 (NASB)
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.

That word rule can also be translated “arbitrate”

So it can be translated “let the peace of Christ arbitrate in your heart”

The peace of Christ in our hearts is given as our arbiter to the things of God. If something upsets the peace of Christ in your heart, do something else. Doesn’t matter what , just do something that doesn’t cost you your peace and joy in God.

But a lot else you said was good, so I wish you well with your walk with Christ

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

amadeus · Jul 24, 2019

faithfulness said:
Just for clarity. What message is it that you don’t hear?

"Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord," Acts 7:57

Not me · Jul 24, 2019

amadeus said:
You most certainly can trust the Holy Spirit to guide you to truth, but consider what it means to be one of His sheep. If you are not... then you may well be hearing the voice of strangers instead of His voice.

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4

Those who know His voice will certainly continue to obey by continuing to seek His kingdom and His righteousness FIRST!

Than as scripture says;

“we should judge them by their fruits.”

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

amadeus · Jul 24, 2019

marks said:
I'm curious . . . can you mention someone who tells people this? To act fake?

Every congregation where I have been a member or where I have visited have programmed themselves to the point where God Himself is blocked if He should choose to speak through someone in the congregation not approved beforehand by the pastor or other designated ministers leading the way. They do lead the way and the Holy Spirit can only lead when allowed to do so by the written or unwritten rulebook of the assembly. Like Israel of old, they limit God. This is using their "free will" to carry on without God even while mouth His name.

marks · Jul 24, 2019

Episkopos said:
The truth is that those who claim to have the promise of the first verse are actually making the error of people in the second verse.

Is that so difficult to see?

That's not exactly true.

Episkopos said:
First verse:
Psalm 91:10-12
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Compare with...

Second verse:
Amos 9:10
10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

Firstly, context.

Psalm 91
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Regarding this passage, your assertion is that those who claim to have the promise of verse 10 are making the mistake of those who make the claim in Amos.

This presupposes that those who claim the promise in verse 10 are wrong.

Even in verse 2, the writer affirms trust in God that these things are so. You would say the psalmist is wrong?

Of course, we need to be careful in applying old covenant doctrine to the new covenant, much confusion resulting in legalism can result.

Just the same . . .

There is a simple statement of cause and effect,

9 Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Compare to:

Amos 9
8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord.
9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

There is a similar, and equally incorrect presupposition being made here also, in that all who claim the Lord's promise for good are sinners, and also are therefore wrong.

These are Sweeping Generalizations, by definition inaccurate, and, while I know many people won't care about that, these negate your assertions.

Much love!

amadeus · Jul 24, 2019

stunnedbygrace said:
Not really...they are much too crafty and subtle to blatantly say it. But if you follow their trail of breadcrumbs, you can see the trap they lay.

Amen! Just look at their programmed services and restricted responses. Only the human powers in charge of their services have a say in who is allowed to have a say. God is out of it unless they allow Him in... which is not very often, if at all.

amadeus · Jul 24, 2019

marks said:
OK.

Well, if they are leading into religious hypocrisy, you know what to do, avoid them.

Much love!

When we do avoid them all, all the ones doing this, it really limits very much our choices... that is if we are really wanting to attend a regularly scheduled "church" service and also really gather together In His Name.

marks · Jul 24, 2019

amadeus said:
Every congregation where I have been a member or where I have visited have programmed themselves to the point where God Himself is blocked if He should choose to speak through someone in the congregation not approved beforehand by the pastor or other designated ministers leading the way. They do lead the way and the Holy Spirit can only lead when allowed to do so by the written or unwritten rulebook of the assembly. Like Israel of old, they limit God. This is using their "free will" to carry on without God even while mouth His name.

So then they want you to put on a act? To pretend to some sort of spirituality?

marks · Jul 24, 2019

amadeus said:
When we do avoid them all, all the ones doing this, it really limits very much our choices... that is if we are really wanting to attend a regularly scheduled "church" service and also really gather together In His Name.

True, It does limit choices. But it's important just the same, is it not?

Much love!

amadeus · Jul 24, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
hes putting it way better and nicer than i would, Nm. Its not that one wont also have peace, but that growth for us is usually not ever pleasant. We have replaced that with "learning," which is.

Growing pains?

marks · Jul 24, 2019

amadeus said:
"Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord," Acts 7:57

To clarify, the initial comment was from Episkopos talking about those people he hears teaching that we should all be acting more spiritual than we are, something like that, putting on a fake religious facade.

I'm not present with teachers or pastors or whomever actually saying that. Personally I think it's kind of a straw man, but OK, in this case I take it as a literary device to make a point.

I don't actually think he's hearing people say that, but I think I understand what he's wanting to accomplish.

Much love!

amadeus · Jul 24, 2019

Episkopos said:
Is it a coincidence that Jesus only got angry when He went to "church"?

Jesus would never be angry at someone for really seeking to gather In His Name, but with more than 2 or 3 it is in most places [churches?] nigh onto impossible! Why? Because someone is always quenching the Spirit.

amadeus · Jul 24, 2019

marks said:
Not that Jesus went to "church" as we do, since what He went to was the Temple, and to the synogogues.

Just the same do you counsel against going to church?

Much love!

Should we not counsel against gathering for our own religious purposes rather than simply gathering really "In His Name"? How many of the folk who attend church services regularly even know what it means to be "In His Name"? When they don't know should it not be most important for those in ministerial positions to help them understand? Why else should we gathering? Would not the most important thing be for Jesus to be there in the midst of them?

amadeus · Jul 24, 2019

Nancy said:
"If the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom...what is the lack of the fear of the Lord the beginning of?"
Utter foolishness!

Babel or Babylon or confusion!

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Cor 14:33

Philip James · Jul 24, 2019

amadeus said:
Would not the most important thing be for Jesus to be there in the midst of them?

Indeed!

' lo, I am with you always'

Peace!

Nancy · Jul 24, 2019

amadeus said:
Babel or Babylon or confusion!

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Cor 14:33

I do love that He is a God of order...i can get confused when too much is thrown into the pot. Ha!

marks · Jul 24, 2019

amadeus said:
Jesus would never be angry at someone for really seeking to gather In His Name, but with more than 2 or 3 it is in most places [churches?] nigh onto impossible! Why? Because someone is always quenching the Spirit.

Gotta find a different church!

Much love!

amadeus · Jul 24, 2019

Not me said:
Hi, I don’t understand the reference to; “the cart before the horse” ?

This is the scripture I was referring to with my first post on this thread.

Colossians 3:15 (NASB)
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.

The expression the "cart before the horse" means to go about something backwards. Notice the verse that I cited after using that expression:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

First things first!

That word rule can also be translated “arbitrate”

So it can be translated “let the peace of Christ arbitrate in your heart”

The peace of Christ in our hearts is given as our arbiter to the things of God. If something upsets the peace of Christ in your heart, do something else. Doesn’t matter what , just do something that doesn’t cost you your peace and joy in God.

But a lot else you said was good, so I wish you well with your walk with Christ

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

Nothing wrong with the verse you quoted, but remember God's order. Jesus always follow His Father's order and preached about that order. You don't go for the dessert first... no matter how good it looks as you will spoil your dinner and likely not want to eat it.

Religious Facade Christianity

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