Biblical Foreknowledge

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Anthony D'Arienzo

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Philip James,

No, but he is saying that the Judge, will look at their 'hidden works' ....
HE knows their hearts...
If HE says, 'welcome to my Father's kingdom, will you argue with HIM?


That will not happen as the scripture does not contradict itself,Gal2;

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

titus 3
5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The only "work that saves" is Jesus perfect life of obedience to the law,
accepted by the Father.

Isa 42:21:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
 

GodsGrace

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GodsGrace,



Giving you a try is not the topic of the OP. The biblical term foreknowledge is



This is totally ignorant and almost incoherent. How can you characterize it as unbiblical if you have not bothered to read it? Instead, I believe you both looked at it, cannot begin to answer it, so now you try and dismiss it and divert to something else.

No one is stopping you from engaging directly the OP. or any portion of it.
When people cannot answer they look for mistakes, loopholes, philosophy, and other excuses because they cannot answer. it is that simple.




This is off-topic and a diversion.
Your ENTIRE theology is a mistake.

Here's something from PAGE ONE:

Now the word “foreknowledge” as it is used in the New Testament is less ambiguous than in its simple form “to know.” If every passage in which it occurs is carefully studied, it will be discovered that it is a moot pointwhether it ever has reference to the mere perception of events which are yet to take place. The fact is that “foreknowledge” is never used in Scripture in connection with events or actions; instead, it always has reference to persons . It is persons God is said to “foreknow,” not the actions of those persons. In proof of this we shall now quote each passage where this expression is found.

What are you talking about?
Are you saying GOD DOES NOT KNOW what is going to happen?

He only knows PERSONS?

Isn't God omniscient?

Your other two pages must also be full of mistakes.
 

GodsGrace

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Philip James,




That will not happen as the scripture does not contradict itself,Gal2;

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

titus 3
5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The only "work that saves" is Jesus perfect life of obedience to the law,
accepted by the Father.

Isa 42:21:21
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Could you please explain to me and to @Philip James what the following means?
Thanks.

John 5:28-29 JESUS SAID
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
 

GodsGrace

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GodsGrace,



Giving you a try is not the topic of the OP. The biblical term foreknowledge is



This is totally ignorant and almost incoherent. How can you characterize it as unbiblical if you have not bothered to read it? Instead, I believe you both looked at it, cannot begin to answer it, so now you try and dismiss it and divert to something else.

No one is stopping you from engaging directly the OP. or any portion of it.
When people cannot answer they look for mistakes, loopholes, philosophy, and other excuses because they cannot answer. it is that simple.




This is off-topic and a diversion.
Your ENTIRE theology is a mistake.
I can answer anything you wish to discuss.
When I have the time to read 3 pages of an O.P.
MAYBE we can talk.

Or maybe you write so much so not too many can answer you?
GodsGrace,


When people post-error and someone offers correction, I would expect if they are interested in truth that they would take some time to review the offered correction.
With a lengthy quote, a responsible person could skim over it and highlight 4 of 5 places where they think the offered correction, is not accurate, then offer their biblical view.




I posted a small section from this teachers work, that I am confident will correct 95% of the error concerning this biblical word and teaching. I do not think you or anyone else can even begin to refute it. Why would you desire to refute Divine truth?
Ummmm. Let's see.
When it's NOT divine truth?

Isn't your teacher Jesus?
He's the best.

And perhaps you should learn to use the quote feature?
We would all appreciate it.
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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Ernest T. Bass
Hello EB,

You are making an error right from the start, let me suggest where.



You are confusing two ideas in a way the OP. does not.
Two issues, God's omniscience, and God's foreknowledge.



Being God knows every possible thing goes without saying, Foreknowledge as used in the bible is of persons, watch again;
29 For whom he did foreknow,
he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

whom, ,whom, them,whom, them,whom ,them...persons, not what they did, but them.

From post #2

Now in view of these passages (and there are no more) what scriptural ground is there for anyone saying God“foreknew” the acts of certain ones, viz., their “repenting and believing,” and that because of those acts He elected them unto salvation? The answer is, None whatever.


Scripture never speaks of repentance and faith as being foreseen or foreknown by God.

Truly, He didknow from all eternity that certain ones would repent and believe, yet this is not what Scripture refers to as the object of God’s “foreknowledge.” The word uniformly refers to God’s foreknowing persons ; then let us “hold fast the form of sound words” ( 2 Tim. 1:13).

You still did not prove God does not foreknow events. If God does not foreknow events then He cannot be omniscient. I gave you a verse that says God foreknows events, Isaiah 44:7-8 events that are going to take place. The crucifixion, the betrayal (Psalms 41:9) the dividing of Christ's clothes and casting lots (Psalms 22:17-18), the destruction of Jerusalem (Matthew 24) are all events that God foreknew. How could events be prophesied if they were not foreknown?

As far as Rom 8, the verse 29 says "For whom he did foreknow". There has not been a single person born into this world that God did not foreknow. Does that mean every single person will be saved, will be glorified in the end? Of course not, for many men will be lost (Matthew 7:13). Therefore "for whom He foreknew" has to be qualified in some way...and it is:

28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Verse 29 begins with an explanatory preposition "for" which means verse 29 gives further explanation of verse 28. Verse 28 specifically refers to those who CONDITIONALLY become a Christian, that is, those who CONDITIONALLY "love God" and have been "called". Paul says nothing here at all about God foreknowing and choosing certain individuals UNconditionally.

So verse 28 tells us whom it was God foreknew, that being the group called Christian, those who of their own free will choose to love God (obey His commands, John 14:15). Verse 29 tells us God foreknew this group will be "conformed to the image of His Son" and someday Christians will be resurrected as Christ, who was the first born from the dead. Paul goes on to point out the end result of this foreknown, predestined group of Christians.....they will be justified, glorified.

The context shows that those whom God foreknows and predestined are the ones who meet the conditions God put on salvation (belief repentance confession baptism), that is, the ones who conditionally love God per Romans 8:28. (Love God means doing what God has said to do, John 14:15).....

Verse 28:
And we know - "we" refers to the group Christian, Christians can know good is in their future.

"that all things work together for good to them that love God," for those that have CONDITIONALLY chosen to love God (obey God - John 14:15) and not certain individuals Unconditionally chosen before the world began.

to them who are the called according to his purpose. - God calls men by His word, the gospel, 2 Thessalonians 2;14, and those who CONDITIONALLY answer the gospel call become "the called" (Jude 1:1)

Verse 29:
For - gives further explanation of verse 28.

whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate
, - God foreknows all men who have been born into this world but the context limits the "whom" to those who have conditionally love God and have answered the gospel call per verse 28. And those whom have met the conditions of loving God and answering the gospel call are the ones predestinated.

'conformed to the image of His Son'. Those in this group who love God, having answered the gospel call (v28) "look" like Christ, conformed to His image. Therefore God did not Unconditionally choose certain individuals regardless of how they live. Justification, glorification is for those who have CONDITIONALLY conformed to the image of His Son. Those who conditionally love God have been predestined to be among the 'conformed'.

that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.- Christ is the firstborn from the dead but will not be the only one. All those who conditionally loved God and answered the gospel call, that is, "brethren" which refers to the GROUP called Christian, the ones who CONDITIONALLY love God and answered the gospel call.

So the context is about a GROUP God foreknew and predestined to have certain traits (image of Christ) and not about God unconditionally choosing certain men apart from what those men do (apart from loving God, answering the gospel call).
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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You still did not prove God does not foreknow events. If God does not foreknow events then He cannot be omniscient. I gave you a verse that says God foreknows events, Isaiah 44:7-8 events that are going to take place. The crucifixion, the betrayal (Psalms 41:9) the dividing of Christ's clothes and casting lots (Psalms 22:17-18), the destruction of Jerusalem (Matthew 24) are all events that God foreknew. How could events be prophesied if they were not foreknown?

As far as Rom 8, the verse 29 says "For whom he did foreknow". There has not been a single person born into this world that God did not foreknow. Does that mean every single person will be saved, will be glorified in the end? Of course not, for many men will be lost (Matthew 7:13). Therefore "for whom He foreknew" has to be qualified in some way...and it is:

28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Verse 29 begins with an explanatory preposition "for" which means verse 29 gives further explanation of verse 28. Verse 28 specifically refers to those who CONDITIONALLY become a Christian, that is, those who CONDITIONALLY "love God" and have been "called". Paul says nothing here at all about God foreknowing and choosing certain individuals UNconditionally.

So verse 28 tells us whom it was God foreknew, that being the group called Christian, those who of their own free will choose to love God (obey His commands, John 14:15). Verse 29 tells us God foreknew this group will be "conformed to the image of His Son" and someday Christians will be resurrected as Christ, who was the first born from the dead. Paul goes on to point out the end result of this foreknown, predestined group of Christians.....they will be justified, glorified.

The context shows that those whom God foreknows and predestined are the ones who meet the conditions God put on salvation (belief repentance confession baptism), that is, the ones who conditionally love God per Romans 8:28. (Love God means doing what God has said to do, John 14:15).....

Verse 28:
And we know - "we" refers to the group Christian, Christians can know good is in their future.

"that all things work together for good to them that love God," for those that have CONDITIONALLY chosen to love God (obey God - John 14:15) and not certain individuals Unconditionally chosen before the world began.

to them who are the called according to his purpose. - God calls men by His word, the gospel, 2 Thessalonians 2;14, and those who CONDITIONALLY answer the gospel call become "the called" (Jude 1:1)

Verse 29:
For - gives further explanation of verse 28.

whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate
, - God foreknows all men who have been born into this world but the context limits the "whom" to those who have conditionally love God and have answered the gospel call per verse 28. And those whom have met the conditions of loving God and answering the gospel call are the ones predestinated.

'conformed to the image of His Son'. Those in this group who love God, having answered the gospel call (v28) "look" like Christ, conformed to His image. Therefore God did not Unconditionally choose certain individuals regardless of how they live. Justification, glorification is for those who have CONDITIONALLY conformed to the image of His Son. Those who conditionally love God have been predestined to be among the 'conformed'.

that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.- Christ is the firstborn from the dead but will not be the only one. All those who conditionally loved God and answered the gospel call, that is, "brethren" which refers to the GROUP called Christian, the ones who CONDITIONALLY love God and answered the gospel call.

So the context is about a GROUP God foreknew and predestined to have certain traits (image of Christ) and not about God unconditionally choosing certain men apart from what those men do (apart from loving God, answering the gospel call).
EB,
Thanks for responding. However
This is completely wrong and a wresting of the scripture. I will go over it when I get online.
Did you read the earlier response?
Omniscience is different than
Foreknowledge.

One example is in Amos 3....God tells Israel YOU ONLY HAVE I KNOWN AMONG ALL THE NATION'S OF THE EARTH.
Are you going to suggest that an Omniscient God did not know the other nations existed?
He knows all men and women exist....
He does not foreknow them savingly.
Only those elected by God the Father are part of this golden chain of redemption.
All men are not part of the golden chain, that is not possible.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Your ENTIRE theology is a mistake.

Here's something from PAGE ONE:

Now the word “foreknowledge” as it is used in the New Testament is less ambiguous than in its simple form “to know.” If every passage in which it occurs is carefully studied, it will be discovered that it is a moot pointwhether it ever has reference to the mere perception of events which are yet to take place. The fact is that “foreknowledge” is never used in Scripture in connection with events or actions; instead, it always has reference to persons . It is persons God is said to “foreknow,” not the actions of those persons. In proof of this we shall now quote each passage where this expression is found.

What are you talking about?
Are you saying GOD DOES NOT KNOW what is going to happen?

He only knows PERSONS?

Isn't God omniscient?

Your other two pages must also be full of mistakes.
Hello Gg
Notice this thread is about biblical foreknowledge.
You and others confuse the two words, they are not the same.
Post 2 deals with this.
If you read the article with understanding you will get it.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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EB,
Thanks for responding. However
This is completely wrong and a wresting of the scripture. I will go over it when I get online.
Did you read the earlier response?
Omniscience is different than
Foreknowledge.

One example is in Amos 3....God tells Israel YOU ONLY HAVE I KNOWN AMONG ALL THE NATION'S OF THE EARTH.
Are you going to suggest that an Omniscient God did not know the other nations existed?
He knows all men and women exist....
He does not foreknow them savingly.
Only those elected by God the Father are part of this golden chain of redemption.
All men are not part of the golden chain, that is not possible.

--The context in Romans 8 does not say God 'savingly foreknew' certain individuals and unconditionally chose, before the world began, that only those certain individuals are to be saved .

--You seem to agree with me that the phrase "for whom God foreknew" cannot include each and every person so it must be qualified. Romans 8:28 gives us the qualifiers...those of their own free will who have CONDITIONALLY chosen to 1) love God and 2) answer the gospel call make up those whom God foreknew and predestined in verse 29. Those people who conditionally love God and answer the gospel call make up a GROUP, a CLASS of people called "Christian" that God foreknew and predestined to be saved. The context is about corporate conditional election and not individual unconditional election. Therefore ANYONE who chooses to become a Christian by CONDIOTNALLY loving God and answering the gospel call take on the trait of the image of Christ.

--Ephesians chapter 1 says nothing about God foreknowing certain individuals that He unconditionally chose before the world to be saved. But instead Paul lists traits that God foreknew the group 'Christian' would possess, those traits being "in Him (Christ)", "holy and without blame" and called 'sons" of God, Ephesians 1:4-5. God also foreknew and pre-ordained this group to do good works, Ephesians 2:10. Therefore ANYONE who becomes a Christian, becomes part of the group "saints" and "faithful in Christ" (Ephesians 1:1) are the only ones that take on these foreknown traits. So God did not UNCONDITONALLY chose men before the world began apart from the group, apart from possessing these traits. There is no example in the Bible of an individual OUTSIDE the group that unconditionally possessed these traits for again, one must be CONDTIONALLY in the group and faithfully remain in the group to possess these traits.

--You are correct that Amos 3:2 does not mean God did not know other nations than Israel...."You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities". The word "known" refers to knowing in a relationship sense, Israel was the only nation known by God through a covenant relationship. Just because Israel was the only nation "known" by God through a covenant relationship did not mean the non-elect Gentiles could not be saved. ANYONE who conditionally obeys God (loves God per Romans 8:28 cf John 14:15) can be of God's saved group.

EDIT:
--what can we make of Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."? This verse shows that being saved/glorified is CONDTIONAL. 2 Timothy 3:12 if a Christian will not suffer with Christ he will not be glorified with Christ which mean suffering is a necessary CONDITION to be met by those in the foreknown group to remain in the group. Only those that conditionally choose to become part of the foreknown group and conditionally faithfully remain in the foreknown group by suffering will be of those glorified, Romans 8:30. The idea that being 'glorified' is an UNconditional guarantee for certain individuals God supposedly chose before the world began is not in the context.

"We are still only adopted; we have not yet taken over the inheritance. We have been appointed heirs apparent of eternal life and its fulfillment, but we do not yet enjoy it. We have the full assurance of future glory, but we are not yet out of the life where there is suffering and fighting. Indeed, a definite suffering actually belongs to true discipleship. Whoever does not take up his cross and follow him, cannot be his disciple (Matthew 16:24) He who does not want to suffer with Christ cannot share in his glory either. The way of the Christian is not a path on the heights but down below. The way on the heights is in heaven, not on earth."
Emil Brunner "The Letter to the Romans" Commentary
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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EB,
No one chooses to become a Christian
For anyone to savingly believe requires being born from above.
It is the work of God not man.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Eb, Roman's 8 does not mention the false concept of free will., or any condition in order to be saved.
You are teaching a gospel of works, instead of mercy titus3:5.
Those who love God are as a result of the 5 links of the chain in 29,30.

The passage is about the elect individuals
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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All attempts to avoid the OP., lead to mistake after mistake , leading to a man centered gospel of works and Conditions.
Election and salvation are unconditional,
The if is not conditional in verse 17, it is a certainty

If so be
 

Ernest T. Bass

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EB,
No one chooses to become a Christian
For anyone to savingly believe requires being born from above.
It is the work of God not man.

Yes, men do choose to become Christians, those in Acts 2 who chose to obey Peter's command per verse 38 are the one's who "loved (obeyed) God" and answered the gospel call therefore became part of the foreknown predestined group called Christian Romans 8:28-29. Acts of the Apostles 26:28-29, why would Paul try and "persuade" Agrippa (and others that hear Paul) to be a Christian if God alone solely unconditionally has already chosen before the world began who will or will not be a Christian? What does persuasion have to do with what God has supposedly already predetermined?
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Eb, Roman's 8 does not mention the false concept of free will., or any condition in order to be saved.
You are teaching a gospel of works, instead of mercy titus3:5.
Those who love God are as a result of the 5 links of the chain in 29,30.

The passage is about the elect individuals
Nothing in Romans 8:28-30 says anything about individuals unconditionally being elected before the world began apart from loving God, apart from answering the gospel call. Nothing in the context says that those who love God (v28) were forced to love God against their will.

Works of merit/self-righteous works or flawless works required by OT law of Moses cannot save but obedience to the will of God does save, Romans 6:16-18. One FIRST loves God (v28) THEN one can be of the foreknown, predestined, called, justified and glorified (v30).
 
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GodsGrace

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Hello Gg
Notice this thread is about biblical foreknowledge.
You and others confuse the two words, they are not the same.
Post 2 deals with this.
If you read the article with understanding you will get it.
What's to read?
You made up some new theology some of us might now know about?

GOD FOREKNOWS EVERYTHING.
God MADE EVERYTHING and he knows everything that is going to happen.

You're arguing against this?

You think Romans 8:28-29 has to do with events?
Is getting saved an event?

Here, explain this to me:
John 3:16
What does WHOEVER mean to you?

Moses parted the Red Sea.
Did God NOT KNOW the Red Sea was going to be parted?
Did God NOT KNOW Mary was going to be the mother of Jesus?
 

GodsGrace

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No verse anywhere says salvation, either under the OT or NT law, is unconditional. Salvation throughout the Bible has always been conditional.
Your post no. 48 is complete and correct.
It's just that some do not want to understand what it really means
and choose to obey their leaders instead of the word of God.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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What's to read?
You made up some new theology some of us might now know about?

GOD FOREKNOWS EVERYTHING.
God MADE EVERYTHING and he knows everything that is going to happen.

You're arguing against this?

You think Romans 8:28-29 has to do with events?
Is getting saved an event?

Here, explain this to me:
John 3:16
What does WHOEVER mean to you?

Moses parted the Red Sea.
Did God NOT KNOW the Red Sea was going to be parted?
Did God NOT KNOW Mary was going to be the mother of Jesus?
You need to read the OP.
It is clear. Your questions indicate a complete lack of understanding.
I would like to help, but you have to read the first 3 posts. Interact with them first, then we can move forward.
 

GodsGrace

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You need to read the OP.
It is clear. Your questions indicate a complete lack of understanding.
I would like to help, but you have to read the first 3 posts. Interact with them first, then we can move forward.
I'm not reading your first 3 posts.
I know about calvinism, and do not need to learn about it from you.

I find that many calvinists do not enjoy speaking to me.
I do wonder why.
Maybe because they have to face the truth a little?

You didn't reply as to what John 3:16 means.

You didn't reply about the parting of the Red Sea or Mary the Mother of Jesus.

Why not?
Don't you know if God knew about this or not?
The reply might even be to YOUR benefit....
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Eb and Gg
God loves us [those He saves]....first.
His election and calling are unconditional.
This is basic theology...you should know the basics first...but you do not yet.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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I am on lunch break using my phone. My fingers are to large for the keyboard.
I will expose both your error and apparent rebellion from my laptop
.it is not that you do not know about it, but rather you hate that God is God, and man is not.