Deception Leading Straight to the Antichrist

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marks

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Agreed. And thus no other temple need be built...,

Do you really expect the old covenant sacrifices to resume?

Or that the 'end of the daily sacrifice' can be anything other than the Christian oblation?

Peace!

Do you think Satan will "sit" in Christians showing himself to be god?

Much love!
 

marks

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But as we’ve clearly seen from the Scriptures throughout this short study, that spectacular gathering together with Christ Jesus can only happen at Christ’s second coming, which takes place AFTER the great defection from the truth (apostacy)...AFTER the antichrist has arrived to this earth and has seated himself in the temple of God, claiming to be “God”...and AFTER the great tribulation.
Not so. The fact that there are sheep in the sheep and goats judgment prohibits the rapture from being after the great tribulation. Think about it. Read the passages. There's no other way.

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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The 'rapture' or as better described; the transportation of those who remain to where Jesus is, as per 1 Thess 4:17, Matthew 24:31, happens at the Return.
Why would anyone arrive at that conclusion in view of what is revealed in Revelation 19 (the Second Coming of Christ)?

Before Christ comes WITH His saints and angels (described as "armies" in this chapter) He must come FOR His saints, since they will all be present at the Marriage of the Lamb. And the Marriage takes place just before the Second Coming. Therefore it would be absurd to ignore the Marriage of the Lamb and claim that the saints are raptured at the Second Coming. In fact there is no such passage since that is the time of vengeance and divine judgment at the battle of Armageddon.
Jesus said 5 times that people going to live in heaven was impossible. John 3:13, +
Jesus never contradicts Himself, so John 3:13 needs to be properly interpreted. All the OT saints and all the NT saints who have passed on are now living in Heaven in the New Jerusalem. Please see Hebrews 12:22-24.
 

Philip James

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Do you think Satan will "sit" in Christians showing himself to be god?

Much love!

Hello marks,
I think rather, that he will 'sit' as the self professed messiah/Christ/mahdi...
And demand to be worshipped...
To do so, he must extinguish all other forms of worship, especially the True Christian worship of the daily sacrifice of the Eucharist...
And replace it with the worship of his image....

The Church, will once more have to go underground, its members persecuted everywhere that falls under the dominion of 'the man of sin'

But after crucifixion.... Glory!

Peace be with you!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!
 
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Keraz

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This just says that no one had ascended into heaven on their own. This does not say that no one has been taken into heaven, or that no man can live in heaven.
A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today. This is very unfortunate as when it doesn’t happen, many may lose their faith.
The ‘rapture’ is a belief based on assumptions, inferences and pure guesswork:

The theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is not Biblical.
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
3/ Unprecedented, why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture about a 'rapture'.
6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.

God has given us the information so we know His Plans for the end times, great Promises of protection and Blessings to His people as they stand firm in their faith thru all that must happen.
 

Keraz

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Where are they opening the seals?
In Heaven, but they are all earthly happenings.
It is plainly obvious that we have experienced all those nasty things of the first Five Seals. Anything worse would have virtually destroyed mankind.

But the Sixth Seal is different, it will be the Day when the Lord resets our civilization to a similar degree as He did on the days of Noah.
 
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marks

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A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today.

I'm not sure I'd say that. Don't underestimate the number of amillennialists.

On your 7 points,
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
It is found in 1 Thess., John 14, Rev 7, there are others if you really want to look at this.

2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
None of these refute this teaching, these all say we can't get there on our own. You and I are in complete agreement on that.

3/ Unprecedented, why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
Well, the first time something happens is in fact, well, the first time. If it happens to be what God is doing, then it's just what God is doing. He said we wouldn't understand His ways. Although personally, to me this seems completely in character.

4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
Has God through His prophets told all people that they will have to live to the end of the great tribulation? No, many will die before that, and many have. Not being here because of death, or because of removal, no requirement that every believer be here till the end of that time. And good reason to think that there needs to be some sort of change which this removal would address.

5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture about a 'rapture'.
That people don't agree over a position does not mean that position is wrong. Well, it depends on who you are and what other positions you hold. For instance I'm Trinitarian, but some are Modalist, some are Oneness, then there is "shared essence", something like that. Does that automatically make trinitarianism wrong?

6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
But you can become undeceived in a moment by coming to believe the pre-trib rapture! OK, tongue in cheek, of course! But point made I hope.

7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.
See reply to 6/.

Much love!
 

Keraz

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I'm not sure I'd say that. Don't underestimate the number of amillennialists.

On your 7 points,
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
It is found in 1 Thess., John 14, Rev 7, there are others if you really want to look at this.

2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
None of these refute this teaching, these all say we can't get there on our own. You and I are in complete agreement on that.

3/ Unprecedented, why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
Well, the first time something happens is in fact, well, the first time. If it happens to be what God is doing, then it's just what God is doing. He said we wouldn't understand His ways. Although personally, to me this seems completely in character.

4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
Has God through His prophets told all people that they will have to live to the end of the great tribulation? No, many will die before that, and many have. Not being here because of death, or because of removal, no requirement that every believer be here till the end of that time. And good reason to think that there needs to be some sort of change which this removal would address.

5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture about a 'rapture'.
That people don't agree over a position does not mean that position is wrong. Well, it depends on who you are and what other positions you hold. For instance I'm Trinitarian, but some are Modalist, some are Oneness, then there is "shared essence", something like that. Does that automatically make trinitarianism wrong?

6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
But you can become undeceived in a moment by coming to believe the pre-trib rapture! OK, tongue in cheek, of course! But point made I hope.

7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.
See reply to 6/.
Much love!
Thanks for a well thought out reply. Of course; I reject it totally and I do so because you have failed to actually provide any scripture that says God will take His people to heaven. Your 3 scriptures, [minus verse numbers,] do not say Christian believers will be taken off the earth, at any time.

Another reason I reject a 'rapture to heaven for the Church', is the many prophesies that say how every faithful believer will gather and live in all of the holy Land, soon after that area is cleared and cleansed by the Sixth Seal devastation. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Isaiah 66:15-21. Romans 9:24-26, +
They are seen there in Daniel 7:23 and Revelation 13:7, when the AC conquers them.
 
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Keraz

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So then the described throne is in heaven?
Where is Heaven?
It is a Spiritual concept, a place in another dimension, inhabited by Spiritual beings and therefore not perceived by us mortals.
However, if God wills it; heaven and Gods Throne can be seen by humans. Ezekiel 1:1 and Acts 7:56
All the Christians gathered into the holy Land will see it; Revelation 7:9, 2 Thess 1:10, Rev 14:1
 

bbyrd009

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The Any-Moment-Now Rapture Theory: a Deception Leading Straight to the Antichrist by Steve Barwick Of all of the controversies among Christians, there is none greater than that of the so-called “any moment now” rapture theory, also known as the pre-tribulation rapture. Those who believe in the rapture cling to it tenaciously, like the cartoon character Linus clinging to his security blanket. Unfortunately, there’s absolutely NO Biblical support for “the rapture” as it is commonly taught by Christian ministers today. None whatsoever.

The Scriptures simply will not support it. Yes, there’s a spectacular "gathering together" of the saints. But as we’ll see in this study, it occurs here on this earth at Christ's Second Advent. No one is flitting off into the sky to fly away with Jesus. Instead, our Lord and Savior is returning to this earth – permanently -- to rule and reign as LORD of Lords and KING of kings. And as Christ Jesus makes His triumphant return, His faithful Christian saints here on this earth will indeed be gathered together to be with Him to join that great spiritual army from heaven that arrives to this earth with Him and accompanies Him to His earthly destination, which is Jerusalem. As we’re told in the great book of Jude, verses 14 and 15, at His second advent Christ is coming here to this earth, with “ten thousands of His saints” to put an end to ungodliness:

“Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convinct all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” And as it’s written again in the great book of Revelation, chapter 9, He’s coming to this earth with His heavenly armies to set things right: Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called.
hey, you even get an affirmation in the very next post, huh?
We’re gathered together with them, as they descend with Christ Jesus to this earth to set things right.
um, you do mean today, right? "like" pending :D
 

Stan B

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As I got older I longed for the version of the bible that was closest to the truth so I began only using the KJV. Is "Rapture" used in another version?

Sovereign Grace, I used the KJV for decades until the New American Standard Bible was published, and given a 5-star rating from scholars because of its focus upon accuracy in providing a literal translation of the original. It is regarded by Bible scholars as the very best translation out there.

"The NASB has earned the reputation of being the most accurate English Bible translation. The NASB update carries on the NASB tradition of being a true Bible translation, revealing what the original manuscripts actually say--not merely what the translator believes they mean."

I have been using this translation for decades, and I am quite satisfied with it. I have the original Ryrie version which is great for providing orientation and authorship information at the beginning of each book. It also has extensive cross-referencing data.

I am not aware of any version containing the word "rapture", which in Greek is the "parousia" -which is usually translated "the coming" or His coming, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

"For the Lord himself will descend of rom heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And sthe dead in Christ will rise first."

All of these references are associated with the noisy flambouyant Second Coming. But then there is the quiet secret "thief in the night", a taking up event which most of us refer to as the rapture, where the saints just mysteriously appear in Heaven, and John is told, “These are the ones who come **OUT** of the great tribulation. Rev 7:9 just before the dreaded 7th seal is opened. This occurs at the same time, the 144,000 are sealed to protect them while they are here for an unstated reason during the last half of the tribulation.
 

Enoch111

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It is a Spiritual concept, a place in another dimension, inhabited by Spiritual beings and therefore not perceived by us mortals.
Yes, Heaven is in another dimension but that DOES NOT make it "a spiritual concept". Furthermore, since the heavenly city New Jerusalem is presently in Heaven and is occupied by God and Christ, that establishes Heaven as a tangible place and an architectural wonder -- a city that has been literally designed and constructed by God!

Your problem is that you prefer earth to Heaven, whereas the majority of Christians prefer Heaven to earth any day. You do not even believe that Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven, and that all the OT saints are now in Heaven, along with all the NT saints who have passed on. Paul calls then "so great a cloud of witnesses" but you don't believe it.
 

Stan B

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Where is Heaven?
It is a Spiritual concept, a place in another dimension, inhabited by Spiritual beings and therefore not perceived by us mortals.
However, if God wills it; heaven and Gods Throne can be seen by humans. Ezekiel 1:1 and Acts 7:56
All the Christians gathered into the holy Land will see it; Revelation 7:9, 2 Thess 1:10, Rev 14:1

Keraz says >> "All the Christians gathered into the holy Land will see it" Revelation 7:9

Keraz,

I tend to believe that you are not as dumb as you are portraying yourself to be, and just playing games for sport. There is lots of action around here without having to set up a strawman, i.e., "intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument."

When Scripture says that they are now before the throne and before the Lamb, to suggest that it is is the holy city, whatever the holy city might be, because there is no holy city here on earth?? Get real Keraz, the throne of God and the Lamb will definitely NOT be here on earth, in the holy city during the tribulation!! What purpose would be served by collecting all the saints to the throne of God and then returning them to earth to be massacred?

You are confusing the millennial; era with the common era!
 

Keraz

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Yes, Heaven is in another dimension but that DOES NOT make it "a spiritual concept"
Well; heaven is inhabited by Spiritual beings.
Any idea that humans can live there is totally refuted by Jesus. John 3:13 And any attempts to make that verse mean something different from what it says, is a serious miss-application of scripture.
With Enoch and Elijah, we are simply not told if they actually live in heaven. Elijah was on earth after the incident of his being taken up on a chariot. 2 Chronicles 21:12 Even Daniel 12:13 has to lie in the grave until the end, which is the GWT Judgment.
 

Keraz

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I tend to believe that you are not as dumb as you are portraying yourself to be, and just playing games for sport.
I just point out the Prophetic Word. What it actually says, not what people like to think it says.
You are confusing the millennial; era with the common era!
No, prophecy is clear: the Lord's faithful people will gather and live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land, BEFORE Jesus Returns. I address this issue in the thread; The Great Second Exodus.
We Christians will be the people God always wanted but has never yet had, in His holy Land. His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16 It is our destiny and our great privilege.
 

Soverign Grace

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Sovereign Grace, I used the KJV for decades until the New American Standard Bible was published, and given a 5-star rating from scholars because of its focus upon accuracy in providing a literal translation of the original. It is regarded by Bible scholars as the very best translation out there.

"The NASB has earned the reputation of being the most accurate English Bible translation. The NASB update carries on the NASB tradition of being a true Bible translation, revealing what the original manuscripts actually say--not merely what the translator believes they mean."

I have been using this translation for decades, and I am quite satisfied with it. I have the original Ryrie version which is great for providing orientation and authorship information at the beginning of each book. It also has extensive cross-referencing data.

I am not aware of any version containing the word "rapture", which in Greek is the "parousia" -which is usually translated "the coming" or His coming, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

"For the Lord himself will descend of rom heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And sthe dead in Christ will rise first."

All of these references are associated with the noisy flambouyant Second Coming. But then there is the quiet secret "thief in the night", a taking up event which most of us refer to as the rapture, where the saints just mysteriously appear in Heaven, and John is told, “These are the ones who come **OUT** of the great tribulation. Rev 7:9 just before the dreaded 7th seal is opened. This occurs at the same time, the 144,000 are sealed to protect them while they are here for an unstated reason during the last half of the tribulation.

I've not heard of that about the NASB. My husband bought me a Ryrie years back but it became torn so I discarded it. I didn't like it because RYRIE was in large letters when I would have rather seen HOLY BIBLE. But I'll keep that in mind. The thees and thous do get confusing.

So you don't believe in a literal 'Rapture'?