What is the difference between vengeance and justice?

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Grailhunter

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This is the first time that I have come across you I think.
Your works are of Satan ! and you are clearly on a worldly trip.

I take it that what you are referring to as rude, must be coming from your ego I would think, sadly many a fool blindly follow a religion for religious sake following a hypocritical line of political correctness 101 that no one is to criticise or they will see that as rude ? ? much like Stalin types who are offend because you do not idolise them totally.
People like that are a pox on the Church and drive people away in droves and I have seen it many a time.

Some how you remind me of this.
I had a mates dad that got new people in next door, so he did the Christian thing and offered her to come to his church, well he regrated that totally he confessed to me, she was a Nazi type of ignorance stomping about in no time, no grace at all but only a curse, and she lorded it all over her hubby and he was that hen pecked that he was like a zombie and her son was a Nazi type of kid stomping about my mates farm and all, trying to get him into trouble, my mate was 16yo at the time they moved in and this brat would go directly to my mates dad and piddle on with anything that he could try make up, he had a vendetta on my mate for some reason and my mate did noting wrong to him at all.
I lived with that mate for some months and old wormy even had a chop at me for cutting him off turning up the road to the farm, thing was he had to give way by law anyway but he had only just got his licence and did not understand this fact.
I asked that old mate some years ago about old wormy what is he doing now, thinking that he was a prison guard or something like that.

All well and good. My exception is rudeness with the ladies. You want to talk with me...that is fine. Some people have had rougher lives than others. Who has not had someone wrong them. Forgiveness is a foundational concept in Christianity. Forgiveness heals the victim and perpetrator. Your story is valid. But if you do not forgive, do you expect Christ to forgive you? Learn this! But if your going to be rude to the ladies, I do not care about your stories... Forgiveness is yours....apologies to Lady GodsGrace. She did not deserve your rant.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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All well and good. My exception is rudeness with the ladies. You want to talk with me...that is fine. Some people have had rougher lives than others. Who has not had someone wrong them. Forgiveness is a foundational concept in Christianity. Forgiveness heals the victim and perpetrator. Your story is valid. But if you do not forgive, do you expect Christ to forgive you? Learn this! But if your going to be rude to the ladies, I do not care about your stories... Forgiveness is yours....apologies to Lady GodsGrace. She did not deserve your rant.
I am not rude to anyone in fact, I was pointing out a concept of reality.
If one wants to sit back and in courage ignorance, that's not what Jesus is about, a Christian does not bless the ignorant.

What I was trying to get at was that a person that has an attitude to people who have a openness to just what ever goes is just the will of God and to sit back and accept it, and that's how it came across to me. like the Hindu sleeping with rats and your child was to stay in a room and one would be fine with that, well I would not be for one that's for sure.

But as to who that you are refer to, remember what St France always said about such things.
 

Grailhunter

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I am not rude to anyone in fact, I was pointing out a concept of reality.
If one wants to sit back and in courage ignorance, that's not what Jesus is about, a Christian does not bless the ignorant.

What I was trying to get at was that a person that has an attitude to people who have a openness to just what ever goes is just the will of God and to sit back and accept it, and that's how it came across to me. like the Hindu sleeping with rats and your child was to stay in a room and one would be fine with that, well I would not be for one that's for sure.

But as to who that you are refer to, remember what St France always said about such things.

She took it as rude...read the post. If you do not understand the difference of right and wrong....this is not going to go well. If you are not going to apologize there is no reason for you and I to talk.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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She took it as rude...read the post. If you do not understand the difference of right and wrong....this is not going to go well. If you are not going to apologize there is no reason for you and I to talk.
Only took it as rude because did not understand the point that was being made.
I am saying that I am grossly offended in people who turn a blind eye to all around them and say platitude remarks that are very short sighted. typical on one who should get out more and realise that the world is not all that simple.

Oh their is no sin in this house I have been informed by my aunty once, come off it I said, Sin crouches at your door the Bible says. once one closes their eyes to Sin, their it is in your face. she took of to a place doing charity work and I said don't go or you will most likely come back with some problem disease and yep I was correct and had her best interest at heart and I tell you what boy is she suffering for it in the last so many years and boy is that cruel way to exist that she has been dealt because of that.
 

Grailhunter

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Only took it as rude because did not understand the point that was being made.
I am saying that I am grossly offended in people who turn a blind eye to all around them and say platitude remarks that are very short sighted. typical on one who should get out more and realise that the world is not all that simple.

Oh their is no sin in this house I have been informed by my aunty once, come off it I said, Sin crouches at your door the Bible says. once one closes their eyes to Sin, their it is in your face. she took of to a place doing charity work and I said don't go or you will most likely come back with some problem disease and yep I was correct and had her best interest at heart and I tell you what boy is she suffering for it in the last so many years and boy is that cruel way to exist that she has been dealt because of that.

As I said no apology...then talk to someone else.
 

Davy

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I know that Scripture tells us to forgive if you have aught against any, but what if someone did something egregious, to which they were never held accountable for? Are we still to forgive or should we seek to have them held accountable? Since someone is corrupted - even if a Christian - should we keep that individual out of our lives, so that they cannot inflict further damage, yet in our hearts forgive? Or does God expect us to welcome that individual with open arms?

I've struggled with this and pastors seem all over the place with it, and I wondered if anyone had ever really worked it out in their own minds/ spirits as to where the lines were drawn. Have you had personal experience with this - if so, how have you handled it?

Read Apostle Paul's example in 1 Corinthians 5 about a member in the Church there at Corinth that was having sexual intercourse with his own mother.

Per 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, those in Christ are not to be unequally yoked with the unbeliever. We are to separate from them. At the same time, Paul said if a woman is married to an unbeliever, and he is pleased to stay with her, then let her not leave, for the husband is sanctified by the wife's belief, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband, and thus their children are clean (spiritual sense). See 1 Corinthians 7.

Separation means like not 'hangin' out' with the unbeliever. It doesn't mean to absolutely separate ourselves from the world, for we cannot. In John 17 our Lord Jesus prayed that God not take us out of the world, but to keep us from evil. Otherwise, how will we let the unbeliever know about The Gospel of Jesus Christ?

As for one who does egregious sin, that is what Paul explained in 1 Timothy 1 God's laws are for. For the sinner and the ungodly. In Romans 13, Paul showed that the powers that be are ordained by God to also be a revenger to execute wrath upon those who do evil. God thus gave those in power authority to judge those guilty of sins unto death. It still does not mean their soul is destroyed. Our Lord Jesus said that all manner of sin can be forgiven of man, except blasphemy against The Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31).

So the word 'judge' in NT Scripture is relative. We are not to judge the sinner unto condemnation into the "lake of fire", because that decision belongs to our Lord Jesus only, and will be in the future. But those God put in power, like law judges in a court, definitely are part of His ordaining against the sinners and ungodly.
 

aspen

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Vengeance is acting in the place of God and exercising our understanding of justice onto others.
Justice is only known by God and therefore can only be practiced by him
 

Soverign Grace

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Read Apostle Paul's example in 1 Corinthians 5 about a member in the Church there at Corinth that was having sexual intercourse with his own mother.

Per 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, those in Christ are not to be unequally yoked with the unbeliever. We are to separate from them. At the same time, Paul said if a woman is married to an unbeliever, and he is pleased to stay with her, then let her not leave, for the husband is sanctified by the wife's belief, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband, and thus their children are clean (spiritual sense). See 1 Corinthians 7.

Separation means like not 'hangin' out' with the unbeliever. It doesn't mean to absolutely separate ourselves from the world, for we cannot. In John 17 our Lord Jesus prayed that God not take us out of the world, but to keep us from evil. Otherwise, how will we let the unbeliever know about The Gospel of Jesus Christ?

As for one who does egregious sin, that is what Paul explained in 1 Timothy 1 God's laws are for. For the sinner and the ungodly. In Romans 13, Paul showed that the powers that be are ordained by God to also be a revenger to execute wrath upon those who do evil. God thus gave those in power authority to judge those guilty of sins unto death. It still does not mean their soul is destroyed. Our Lord Jesus said that all manner of sin can be forgiven of man, except blasphemy against The Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31).

So the word 'judge' in NT Scripture is relative. We are not to judge the sinner unto condemnation into the "lake of fire", because that decision belongs to our Lord Jesus only, and will be in the future. But those God put in power, like law judges in a court, definitely are part of His ordaining against the sinners and ungodly.

So if you had knowledge of someone doing wrong and you had the choice whether to look the other way or report them, what choice would you make? And then, what if you did report them, and the individual overseeing the corrupt individual was also corrupt? This is often what happens in the government. When you find one corrupt individual, there is usually an entire nest of corruption, like a nest of vipers. What would you do then? This is exactly what happened to me. My sister and her corrupt lawyer attempted to bully me into signing their document taking thousands from my share. I refused and the lawyer threatened me and tried to wait me out for 11 months. He had the lawyer in the probate department "lose" my brief. So I dropped the court case and the corrupt lawyer took $3,000 extra out of the estate, and he and the corrupt probate lawyer got away with corruption.

I reported it to the corrupt probate lawyer's superiors and they circled the wagons and never even responded. So I let it go, until it would not stop bothering me. So I wasn't sure if I should let it go or persist and keep trying to report it until someone held the corrupt lawyers accountable. Do you see my dilemma? I'm unsure what God was showing me to do. I seem always to get snagged on this issue.
 

justbyfaith

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Like I said, just pray that the Lord will receive them as sons (see Hebrews 12:6).

That way, your prayer for vengeance isn't entirely malicious.

It is written,

Rom 12:19, Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20, Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21, Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
 

Davy

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At least it wasn't true incest.

If I recall per the OT, that was still a grave sin in God's eyes.

Lev 18:7-8
7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

KJV

Reuben lost the birthright because of doing the same thing with one of his father's concubines.

The fact that Apostle Paul rebuked those in the Church for not casting that one out because of the sin, reveals just how serious that particular sin was to our Lord Jesus, for Paul did this under The Gospel of Jesus Christ, not under the old covenant.

1 Cor 5:4-5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV
 

Davy

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So if you had knowledge of someone doing wrong and you had the choice whether to look the other way or report them, what choice would you make? And then, what if you did report them, and the individual overseeing the corrupt individual was also corrupt? This is often what happens in the government. When you find one corrupt individual, there is usually an entire nest of corruption, like a nest of vipers. What would you do then? This is exactly what happened to me. My sister and her corrupt lawyer attempted to bully me into signing their document taking thousands from my share. I refused and the lawyer threatened me and tried to wait me out for 11 months. He had the lawyer in the probate department "lose" my brief. So I dropped the court case and the corrupt lawyer took $3,000 extra out of the estate, and he and the corrupt probate lawyer got away with corruption.

I reported it to the corrupt probate lawyer's superiors and they circled the wagons and never even responded. So I let it go, until it would not stop bothering me. So I wasn't sure if I should let it go or persist and keep trying to report it until someone held the corrupt lawyers accountable. Do you see my dilemma? I'm unsure what God was showing me to do. I seem always to get snagged on this issue.

Those kind of things are like a dilemma. But God is watching. We are to do what we can in stopping corruption, and we have to be smart about it, have actual proof, and be careful to take it to the proper authority. If you did that, and even that authority is corrupt, then you did your duty. Pray that our Heavenly Father will take it over. And often something owed to you, God often finds a way for it to be replaced to you in another method.
 

justbyfaith

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If I recall per the OT, that was still a grave sin in God's eyes.

I didn't say that what the man did wasn't a grave sin in the eyes of the Lord...

I was just saying that it should be clear that the man didn't commit actual incest by committing sexual immorality with his own mother.