Buying and selling in the last days

shilohsfoal · Aug 4, 2019

Theres no such thing as a one world goverment.God did away with that at the tower of Babble and only by God will it be undone.

There will continue to be wars and rumors of wars right up till the big war when nation comes a nation and all hell breaks lose.

Matthew 24:7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

Does that sound like one goverment to you?

Ten nations agreeing to attack Israrl does not the world make.

Keraz · Aug 4, 2019

shilohsfoal said:
The Israelis who,overcome shall,recieve the name of thier father in thier foreheads.

It is the Lord's servants who will receive God's seal on their foreheads. As is plainly stated in Revelation 7:3.
Thinking that those who call themselves Jews or Israelis, are still God's people, is a serious denial of scriptural truths. We Christians are the chosen people of God. John 15:14-19, 1 Peter 2:9-10 WE are the Overcomers for God, as seen in each of the seven Churches. Revelation 2 & 3

Keraz · Aug 4, 2019

shilohsfoal said:
Theres no such thing as a one world goverment

Daniel 7:23, and Revelation 13:11-17 prove that will be a time when the whole world will be under the control of a dictator, referred to as the Anti-Christ.

shilohsfoal · Aug 4, 2019

Keraz said:
It is the Lord's servants who will receive God's seal on their foreheads. As is plainly stated in Revelation 7:3.
Thinking that those who call themselves Jews or Israelis, are still God's people, is a serious denial of scriptural truths. We Christians are the chosen people of God. John 15:14-19, 1 Peter 2:9-10 WE are the Overcomers for God, as seen in each of the seven Churches. Revelation 2 & 3

If you could read more than,one verse ,you would have read that Gods servants who have the fathers name in thier forehesds are 144000 of Israel.12000 from,each tribe.

But you left out that part . You skip around taking one verse out if context after the other.

shilohsfoal · Aug 4, 2019

Keraz said:
Daniel 7:23, and Revelation 13:11-17 prove that will be a time when the whole world will be under the control of a dictator, referred to as the Anti-Christ.

No,Thats just you imagination running away with you.

Matthew 24:7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

There will be many goverments fighting against many goverments right up till the big one.

shilohsfoal · Aug 4, 2019

Daniel 11:40 At the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, but the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots, horsemen, and many ships, invading many countries and sweeping through them like a flood.

One world goverment gobbledygook. If there was one goverment then there shouldnt have been another govetment to attack him.But if you noticed they have several wars throughout this chapter.So which one you going to claim,is the one world goverment?
The goverment of the north or the goverment of the south?

Which one you going to call the antichrist,the king of the north protecting Israel or the king of the south who tries to destroy Israel?

Stranger · Aug 4, 2019

shnarkle said:
There's a claim by some that we're living in the last days. Those who make this claim also point out that during the last days, the antichrist will insist that those who wish to buy or sell must take his mark, but that hasn't happened. The reason they say it hasn't happened is because they're still buying and selling. Why they presume this to be the case should be obvious, but then hypocrisy and an inability to exercise even rudimentary critical thinking skills are pervasive today; also a sign of the times.

So what is the mark of the beast according to these same people? It's a literal mark, a tattoo, a chip, etc. It might as well be that obvious, but when people have lost their way, and can't see the truth when it's staring them in the face, it's pretty easy to slip something that obvious past them.

The bible talks of another mark, one that his chosen people can be identified by. How many of those professing to know so much about the mark of the beast know what that mark is? How many ever stopped to think their interest in the mark of the beast might be a clue to which mark they've already taken?

Who knows what mark God has given to his people which distinguishes them from the mark of the beast?

If we're truly living in the last days and the mark of the beast has been given to allow us to buy and sell, wouldn't it seem a good idea to stop buying and selling, and figure out what that mark could be rather than just assuming the antichrist hasn't handed out his mark yet?
"That old serpent the devil, and satan" is presented as being subtle enough to tempt and seduce the pinnacle of God's creation. Adam and Eve began life walking with God, and yet Satan was able to deceive them. Why would people think that Satan would be any less subtle in these last days with a fallen world? In a world where practically no one walks with God anymore, we're all basically walking around in the dark, and Paul points out that Satan comes transforming himself as an angel of light.

What better way to deceive the world than by mixing the truth with a few lies? Those closest to the truth are the best liars, and you can't get much closer to God than being a cherub.

It's ironic that the believer and skeptic alike seek a god who will show himself, and yet the bible informs us that it is the antichrist who shows himself to be god.

Why are you, who are not Christian, allowed to post all over a Christian forum?

Stranger

shnarkle · Aug 4, 2019

Keraz said:
I read what you say, but I disagree with it.

The OWG will be established soon after the Lord's Day of fiery wrath has changed the world and made it necessary to have a OWG in order to regain law and order, trade, communications, etc. About 10 to 15 years BEFORE Jesus Returns.

So you're claiming that the Day of the Lord with his fiery wrath is not the same day he returns? You're saying that there's all this wrath on the Day of the Lord, and then 10 or 15 years later he comes back again? Why does he come back again? To finish what he started? Does he get a second wind 15 years later? I've never heard or seen any of this in the bible before.

Nevertheless, how many one world economic systems are there before the one you're talking about comes about, and what's so bad about that one? What makes the one we have now acceptable while that one isn't? The one we have is a complete joke. 150 years ago, no one would have considered this an option. There's no way anyone would have allowed central banks to run the financial markets the way they do today. Anyone proposing the Fed would have been tarred and feathered.

shnarkle · Aug 4, 2019

shilohsfoal said:
Daniel 11:40 At the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, but the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots, horsemen, and many ships, invading many countries and sweeping through them like a flood.

One world goverment gobbledygook. If there was one goverment then there shouldnt have been another govetment to attack him.But if you noticed they have several wars throughout this chapter.So which one you going to claim,is the one world goverment?
The goverment of the north or the goverment of the south?

Which one you going to call the antichrist,the king of the north protecting Israel or the king of the south who tries to destroy Israel?

This is just my own personal opinion, but the kings of the north and south look strikingly similar to Iran and Germany today. Iran has been such an isntigator in Christian Europe for so long without so much as a peep from anyone in Europe. Germany has been building her military up for the last few decades though, and could dole out some serious pain. It seems like Iran just keeps on pushing and pushing though.

Then again, I see how the US and the UK have been looking to instigate trouble in the middle east, not to mention the Caribbean as well. It's ridiculous to hear the rhetoric coming from the US as if we're the victim in all of this. It's preposterous. The US looks like that beast that is supposed to sound like a lamb, but is really a dragon.

Keraz · Aug 4, 2019

shilohsfoal said:
If you could read more than,one verse ,you would have read that Gods servants who have the fathers name in thier forehesds are 144000 of Israel.12000 from,each tribe.

So 12,000 will come from Judah and 12,000 from Benjamin, who are the Jewish people.
Where do the other 110,000 come from? Obviously from the same people as described in Revelation 7:9; from every tribe, race, nation and language. The still scattered ten Northern tribes of the House of Israel.

Re the OWG: I gave the prophesies that prove there will be a OWG, ruled by a dictator. Many other verses refer to this as well.
You simply reject Bible truth, to deny it.

shilohsfoal · Aug 4, 2019

shnarkle said:
This is just my own personal opinion, but the kings of the north and south look strikingly similar to Iran and Germany today. Iran has been such an isntigator in Christian Europe for so long without so much as a peep from anyone in Europe. Germany has been building her military up for the last few decades though, and could dole out some serious pain. It seems like Iran just keeps on pushing and pushing though.

Then again, I see how the US and the UK have been looking to instigate trouble in the middle east, not to mention the Caribbean as well. It's ridiculous to hear the rhetoric coming from the US as if we're the victim in all of this. It's preposterous. The US looks like that beast that is supposed to sound like a lamb, but is really a dragon.

The US Iraq wars correspond to the wars between the north and south.In the chapter there are three.The last one is the big one.

shilohsfoal · Aug 4, 2019

Keraz said:
So 12,000 will come from Judah and 12,000 from Benjamin, who are the Jewish people.
Where do the other 110,000 come from? Obviously from the same people as described in Revelation 7:9; from every tribe, race, nation and language. The still scattered ten Northern tribes of the House of Israel.

Re the OWG: I gave the prophesies that prove there will be a OWG, ruled by a dictator. Many other verses refer to this as well.
You simply reject Bible truth, to deny it.

144000 OF ISRAEL.
12000 from 12 tribes of Israel.
Not tribes of the gentiles.

historyb · Aug 4, 2019

shnarkle said:
There's a claim by some that we're living in the last days. Those who make this claim also point out that during the last days, the antichrist will insist that those who wish to buy or sell must take his mark, but that hasn't happened. The reason they say it hasn't happened is because they're still buying and selling. Why they presume this to be the case should be obvious, but then hypocrisy and an inability to exercise even rudimentary critical thinking skills are pervasive today; also a sign of the times.

So what is the mark of the beast according to these same people? It's a literal mark, a tattoo, a chip, etc. It might as well be that obvious, but when people have lost their way, and can't see the truth when it's staring them in the face, it's pretty easy to slip something that obvious past them.

The bible talks of another mark, one that his chosen people can be identified by. How many of those professing to know so much about the mark of the beast know what that mark is? How many ever stopped to think their interest in the mark of the beast might be a clue to which mark they've already taken?

Who knows what mark God has given to his people which distinguishes them from the mark of the beast?

If we're truly living in the last days and the mark of the beast has been given to allow us to buy and sell, wouldn't it seem a good idea to stop buying and selling, and figure out what that mark could be rather than just assuming the antichrist hasn't handed out his mark yet?
"That old serpent the devil, and satan" is presented as being subtle enough to tempt and seduce the pinnacle of God's creation. Adam and Eve began life walking with God, and yet Satan was able to deceive them. Why would people think that Satan would be any less subtle in these last days with a fallen world? In a world where practically no one walks with God anymore, we're all basically walking around in the dark, and Paul points out that Satan comes transforming himself as an angel of light.

What better way to deceive the world than by mixing the truth with a few lies? Those closest to the truth are the best liars, and you can't get much closer to God than being a cherub.

It's ironic that the believer and skeptic alike seek a god who will show himself, and yet the bible informs us that it is the antichrist who shows himself to be god.

Your talking about the stuff in Revelations. I believe we have been in the last days since the Cross and at the same time believe all that stuff was code for the first Century Christians. After all, Revelations was not written to modern Christians

Keraz · Aug 5, 2019

shilohsfoal said:
144000 OF ISRAEL.
12000 from 12 tribes of Israel.
Not tribes of the gentiles.

You fail to see that faithful Christians ARE the Israelites of God. Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16

shnarkle · Aug 5, 2019

historyb said:
Your talking about the stuff in Revelations. I believe we have been in the last days since the Cross and at the same time believe all that stuff was code for the first Century Christians. After all, Revelations was not written to modern Christians

I'm not so sure it's confined to Revelation. I see a lot of parallels between what's in Revelation and the old testament prophets as well which leads me to conclude that it had relevance for Jews as well.

Bobby Jo · Aug 5, 2019

Welp -- with all the "knowledge" being expounded, (with the exception of @Stranger, who appeared to have the ONLY RATIONAL Post), -- I guess every one's got it covered, except for the TRUTH.

So I'll let the confusion/distortion/deception/dis-information continue unabated ...
Bobby Jo

Naomi25 · Aug 21, 2019

Enoch111 said:
Well in that case you are not allowing Scripture to be the final criterion. Kindly read and study Revelation 13 carefully:

WORLDWIDE WORSHIP OF SATAN AND THE ANTICHRIST
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?...8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

WORLDWIDE POWER GIVEN TO THE ANTICHRIST
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

WORLDWIDE APPLICATION OF THE MARK OF THE BEAST
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed... 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The idea that the "mark of the beast" must be a literal, physical mark on the hand or forehead is just not consistent with scripture itself.
As we know, Revelation is a book that delves back into the OT for its images and references. Look in Deut 6:

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. -Deuteronomy 6:5–9

Moses is speaking here of how we are to take to heart and apply God's laws. We know that some devout Jews took this passage rather too literally and began wearing tiny books on their forehead. Most people will recognize that they have over-literalized what Deuteronomy is speaking of here. We are to diligently take into our minds and into our doings...the works of our hands and hearts...the Word of God. Hence we also find later in the OT the promise of God to "write his law upon our hearts".
So, when we come to Revelation, a book that is so full to flowing with references and images pulled from the OT, it is nonsense in the same order of wearing little books on our foreheads, to think "a-ha! It HAS to be a tatto, or chip!" No...the most rational and logical thing in this instance, is to look back to where God has previously used such a phrase before...and what it meant there.
To take the 'mark' of the beast is to subscribe to Satan's lawlessness, his rebellion against God. To live, both mind and deed, for oneself or for evil, rather than for God.
And to support this further, we can see that in Revelation to have "the seal of God" on a believers forehead, is to have the Holy Spirit...something that we are told we are 'sealed' with in Eph 1:13. And indeed, we know that when we recieve this mark of salvation we have no physical mark, but an inner one, where we begin to live, both thought and deed, in accordance with God's will.
There are many, as I've pointed out above, reasons to believe the Mark of the Beast is not physical, and only speculation to believe it must be. One can only hide behind claims of a 'literal' reading of Revelation for so long before said literal reading actually comes to the defense of other interpretations. When the book itself launches itself by declaring it to be a book of images and symbols, and it then goes on to refer back to the OT more often than any other book in the NT, it becomes rather futile to then ignore what the OT says about those references, but instead start making up your own conclusions of those images.

Enoch111 · Aug 22, 2019

Naomi25 said:
The idea that the "mark of the beast" must be a literal, physical mark on the hand or forehead is just not consistent with scripture itself.

You should know that that is TOTAL NONSENSE when Scripture makes it perfectly clear that it is a literal, physical mark on the right hand or on the forehead, and it leads to eternal damnation.

Christians do not have the right, the authority, or the liberty to play fast and loose with Scripture -- especially in such a serious matter. We already see all around us how people are being marked through various identification numbers. In this case, the ID will be implanted on the individual. It could well be an electronic chip (which is already being used in certain areas). And somewhere within that ID will the the number 666.

brakelite · Aug 22, 2019

The words seal and mark are synonyms. The seal on the forehead is in reference to God's name, which in turn references His character... His righteousness formed within. But why only the forehead? Why not the hand? Because His character cannot be sealed within by your works... But the mark of the beast can be formed within by conscientiously trusting ourselves to a false system, as well as following along by our works because of convenience. We may not believe we are doing right, but do what we do because it's the easy way out... And we won't suffer or go hungry because of it.

Enoch111 · Aug 22, 2019

brakelite said:
...But the mark of the beast can be formed within by conscientiously trusting ourselves to a false system, as well as following along by our works because of convenience...

Now you are just allegorizing and spiritualizing away God's truth. If what you is true, then you would be consigning Christians to Hell. And that's the kind of nonsense which comes forth when people fool around with Scripture.

So here is the truth about the Mark of the Beast and its impact on those who take it which is eternal damnation (Rev 14:9-11):
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The Beast is the FUTURE Antichrist -- the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition. He is not a "papal system" but "the king of fierce countenance" who deceives the whole world to worship him and Satan (Rev 13). And these same worshippers must taken the Mark of the Beast in order to function on earth. And by doing so they damn themselves eternally.

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