Was Adam, Eve and Creation "Perfect" or "Very Good"?

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GodsGrace

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I believe you are not listening. God is infallible. If God looked into the future before creating Adam and saw that he would be disobedient as people say since as I said God is infallible then Adam could make no choice but to be disobedient, if he could choose to be obedient after God had already saw he would be disobedient then that would mean God could be proved wrong and it's impossible to prove God wrong so Adam could make no choice but to be disobedient. He couldn't choose to be obedient if God had already seen him to be disobedient if he has that ability or capacity to prove God wrong concerning what God saw before creating him then that means God would be fallible not infallible. I believe God to be infallible. So these people who believe God saw that Angel to become Satan and Adam to be disobedient before creating them are wrong I believe. I also believe that those people who believe in this kind of definition of omniscient to be an arbitrary definition. They have a right to their definitions, beliefs, interpretation of scripture but I don't have to agree with them and because I disagree with them doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong.
You seem to be mixing up foreknowledge with causation.
I may not be understanding you and am sorry if I don't.

Because God foreknows something does not mean He caused it to happen.
With our free will we choose what we want to do,,,God just knew what we would choose.

I think you believe in open theism...
IOW, the future is not set.
Also, God knows it when it happens in this system...and NOT before.

This is different from foreknowledge...I can't tell which you believe.
Many believe in open theism.
 

101G

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I believe what I said about God being infallible stands, it's not going to change because you and others don't believe. You can say the omniscient of God is not questionable, but when people tell me they believe God saw that Adam was going to sin before he created Adam, then I'm going to question peoples definition of what they say omniscient means.
GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, what you think is just that... what you think. God can do anything he wants, and he don't have to have your nor mine permission.
and you can question anything.... as said, it want change anything. but the scriptures are clear, Ephesians 5:15 "See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Ephesians 5:16 "Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Ephesians 5:17 "Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

now, here's a chance to walk wise. for all my Jehovah believers, the Revelation 1:1 test. "Who sent his angel to John?". the answer lay in Revelation 22:6. because there the angel tells us who sent him. now was it your Jehovah or was it the TRUE GOD JESUS?
let's see if you are willing to walk as wise. your answer please.

PICJAG.
 

Collin Feener

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“God created man in His image”

1 Corinthians 15:45-49 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. [46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. [47] The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. [48] As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. [49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Did Adam bear the image of Heavenly first and then the earthly? His word says the First man was of the earth. The second of Heaven. Was Adam of Heaven first and then earth? Was Adam spirit first and then the natural? Created in God’s image?
Yes but man is not a living Spirit, He has a living Spirit if he has the Holy Spirit and I don't think of Jesus as a man like Adam. It says Adam was formed from the earth and taken from it and after the fall, made to return to it. From dust to dust. What would you say it is to be a living soul. Is any man able to come to God without first comming to Jesus and was he not the word made flesh? The new Image is after he is crucified to each one of us, individually. Paul preached Jesus crusified but the word as written is first flesh to us.
Pauls letters come first and later he come. He says that a lot. It means to us, first we receive and latter we understand.






s
 

VictoryinJesus

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What would you say it is to be a living soul.

I’m not sure but would say different from a quickening (life-giving Spirit). 1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
 
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101G

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the airplane was Made Perfect. then it was used for destruction.
in that it was made perfect, it transported people from one place to another in a short amount of time.
but that which was made perfect, was used as a instructment of destruction. so the making of the air plane was perfect, but it was evil men who used what was made perfect, for destruction.

Just as a car, it was made perfect. but if someone used it to run oversome one do you blame the MAKER? no, the person behind the wheel.

Adam and Eve had the owner manual so to speak but "DESIRE" to do what they wanted. the apostle James was clear, James 4:1 "From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
James 4:2 "Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
James 4:3 "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

"a desire to have, and cannot obtain". scripture, Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

A "DESIRE" to have and cannot obtain. this is what happen in the beginning. just as with the devil, Ezekiel 28:13 "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Ezekiel 28:14 "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

and here's that "Desire". Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

"a desire to be "LIKE" God". just as with the devil, so he passed the lie on, scripture, Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

so don't blame the Maker, READ your owner manual, for there is no USER MANUAL, only the "OWNER MANUAL, you can't, as Frank Sinatra sang, "I DID IT MY WAY". it's NOT your way, it's God's way, and Jesus is the WAY. so read his MANUAL, it's called the Bible.

PICJAG

PICJAG.
 
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GodsGrace

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the airplane was Made Perfect. then it was used for destruction.
in that it was made perfect, it transported people from one place to another in a short amount of time.
but that which was made perfect, was used as a instructment of destruction. so the making of the air plane was perfect, but it was evil men who used what was made perfect, for destruction.

Just as a car, it was made perfect. but if someone used it to run oversome one do you blame the MAKER? no, the person behind the wheel.

Adam and Eve had the owner manual so to speak but "DESIRE" to do what they wanted. the apostle James was clear, James 4:1 "From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
James 4:2 "Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
James 4:3 "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

"a desire to have, and cannot obtain". scripture, Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

A "DESIRE" to have and cannot obtain. this is what happen in the beginning. just as with the devil, Ezekiel 28:13 "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Ezekiel 28:14 "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

and here's that "Desire". Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

"a desire to be "LIKE" God". just as with the devil, so he passed the lie on, scripture, Genesis 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat".

so don't blame the Maker, READ your owner manual, for there is no USER MANUAL, only the "OWNER MANUAL, you can't, as Frank Sinatra sang, "I DID IT MY WAY". it's NOT your way, it's God's way, and Jesus is the WAY. so read his MANUAL, it's called the Bible.

PICJAG

PICJAG.
From the above it's obvious you don't seem to understand what perfect means.

An airplane is not perfect because it could crash due to mechanical malfunction.
A car can crash due to mechanical malfunction.

They are not perfect and then become imperfect BECAUSE A MAN caused them to become unperfect.

They were NOT PERFECT TO BEGIN WITH,,,in and of themselves.
 

101G

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From the above it's obvious you don't seem to understand what perfect means.

An airplane is not perfect because it could crash due to mechanical malfunction.
A car can crash due to mechanical malfunction.

They are not perfect and then become imperfect BECAUSE A MAN caused them to become unperfect.

They were NOT PERFECT TO BEGIN WITH,,,in and of themselves.
first thanks for the reply. second, ERROR on your part, it flies, as it was design to do, or was made to do. so that irrelevant because it crashed is a past tense effect of a fallen world, .... sin. imagine if there was no sin in the world? the plane would not crash. so your question is not nessary. the same with the car.

God is perfect, and we in him is perfect, in a unperfect world. live not by the world only in it.

PICJAG.
 

GodsGrace

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first thanks for the reply. second, ERROR on your part, it flies, as it was design to do, or was made to do. so that irrelevant because it crashed is a past tense effect of a fallen world, .... sin. imagine if there was no sin in the world? the plane would not crash. so your question is not nessary. the same with the car.

God is perfect, and we in him is perfect, in a unperfect world. live not by the world only in it.

PICJAG.
Why do you tell me I'm wrong and then agree with me?
I find this disturbing. Is there some particular joy in telling persons they're wrong?

From post 86 here's what you stated:
he airplane was Made Perfect. then it was used for destruction.
in that it was made perfect, it transported people from one place to another in a short amount of time.
but that which was made perfect, was used as a instructment of destruction. so the making of the air plane was perfect, but it was evil men who used what was made perfect, for destruction.

Just as a car, it was made perfect. but if someone used it to run oversome one do you blame the MAKER? no, the person behind the wheel.


You clearly are blaming man for using the plane incorrectly, and the car.
This puts the blame on MAN.

I said THE PLANE WAS IMPERFECT IN AND OF ITSELF.
NOW you agree with your above post.

Make up your mind.

The correct response is that the PLANE WAS FAULTY to begin with.
EVERYTHING IS FAULTY due to the sin nature...which you now admit.
 

101G

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Why do you tell me I'm wrong and then agree with me?
I find this disturbing. Is there some particular joy in telling persons they're wrong?
did I say you was "wrong?".
Wrong= Not correct ex. You took the wrong way= There is a right way. Error= To do something wrong due to ignorance or poor knowledge (You think it is correct but it is not) ex. ... It was a mistake.

You clearly are blaming man for using the plane incorrectly, and the car.
This puts the blame on MAN.

I said THE PLANE WAS IMPERFECT IN AND OF ITSELF.
NOW you agree with your above post.
I said, what God made was perfect. how man, you or I operate a plane or car is not God fault. see it now?.

PICJAG.
 

GodsGrace

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did I say you was "wrong?".
Wrong= Not correct ex. You took the wrong way= There is a right way. Error= To do something wrong due to ignorance or poor knowledge (You think it is correct but it is not) ex. ... It was a mistake.


I said, what God made was perfect. how man, you or I operate a plane or car is not God fault. see it now?.

PICJAG.
It's not worth it 101.
Forget this.

The only statement I'm making is that EVERYTHING is infected with the sin nature...
man, nature, material things
Everything.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The thought of perfection is expressed through Hebrew terms drawn from such verbs as ka·lalʹ (perfect [compare Eze 27:4]), sha·lamʹ (come to completion [compare Isa 60:20]), and ta·mamʹ (be completed, come to perfection [compare Ps 102:27;Isa 18:5]). In the Christian Greek Scriptures the words teʹlei·os (adjective), te·lei·oʹtes (noun), and te·lei·oʹo (verb) are used similarly, conveying such ideas as bringing to completeness or full measure (Lu 8:14;2Co 12:9; Jas 1:4), being full grown, adult, or mature (1Co 14:20; Heb 5:14), having attained the appropriate or appointed end, purpose, or goal (Joh 19:28; Php 3:12).

For correct Bible understanding one must not make the common error of thinking that everything called “perfect” is so in an absolute sense, that is, to an infinite degree, without limitation. Perfection in this absolute sense distinguishes only the Creator, Jehovah God. Because of this Jesus could say of phis Father: “Nobody is good, except one, God.” (Mr 10:18) Jehovah is incomparable in his excellence, worthy of all praise, supreme in his superb qualities and powers, so that “his name alone is unreachably high.” (Ps 148:1-13; Job 36:3, 4, 26;37:16, 23, 24; Ps 145:2-10, 21) Moses extolled God’s perfection, saying: “For I shall declare the name of Jehovah. Do you attribute greatness to our God! The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he.” (De 32:3, 4) All of God’s ways, words, and law are perfect, refined, free from flaw or defect. (Ps 18:30; 19:7; Jas 1:17, 25) There is never any just cause for objection, criticism, or faultfinding regarding Him or his activity; rather, praise is always due Him.—Job 36:22-24.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Foreknowledge/Foreordination part 1

To understand the matter of foreknowledge and foreordination as relating to God, certain factors necessarily must be recognized.

First, God’s ability to foreknow and foreordain is clearly stated in the Bible. Jehovah himself sets forth as proof of his Godship this ability to foreknow and foreordain events of salvation and deliverance, as well as acts of judgment and punishment, and then to bring such events to fulfillment. His chosen people are witnesses of these facts. (Isa 44:6-9; 48:3-8) Such divine foreknowledge and foreordination form the basis for all true prophecy. (Isa 42:9; Jer 50:45; Am 3:7, 8) God challenges the nations opposing his people to furnish proof of the godship they claim for their mighty ones and their idol-gods, calling on them to do so by foretelling similar acts of salvation or judgment and then bringing them to pass. Their impotence in this respect demonstrates their idols to be ‘mere wind and unreality.’—Isa 41:1-10, 21-29; 43:9-15; 45:20, 21.

A second factor to be considered is the free moral agency of God’s intelligent creatures. The Scriptures show that God extends to such creatures the privilege and responsibility of free choice, of exercising free moral agency (De 30:19, 20; Jos 24:15), thereby making them accountable for their acts. (Ge 2:16, 17;3:11-19; Ro 14:10-12; Heb 4:13) They are thus not mere automatons, or robots. Man could not truly have been created in “God’s image” if he were not a free moral agent. (Ge 1:26, 27; see FREEDOM.) Logically, there should be no conflict between God’s foreknowledge (as well as his foreordaining) and the free moral agency of his intelligent creatures.

A third factor that must be considered, one sometimes overlooked, is that of God’s moral standards and qualities, including his justice, honesty, impartiality, love, mercy, and kindness. Any understanding of God’s use of the powers of foreknowledge and foreordination must therefore harmonize with not only some of these factors but with all of them. Clearly, whatever God foreknows must inevitably come to pass, so that God is able to call “things that are not as though they were.”—Ro 4:17.

The question then arises: Is his exercise of foreknowledge infinite, without limit? Does he foresee and foreknow all future actions of all his creatures, spirit and human? And does he foreordain such actions or even predestinate what shall be the final destiny of all his creatures, even doing so before they have come into existence?

Or, is God’s exercise of foreknowledge selective and discretionary, so that whatever he chooses to foresee and foreknow, he does, but what he does not choose to foresee or foreknow, he does not? And, instead of preceding their existence, does God’s determination of his creatures’ eternal destiny await his judgment of their course of life and of their proved attitude under test? The answers to these questions must necessarily come from the Scriptures themselves and the information they provide concerning God’s actions and dealings with his creatures, including what has been revealed through his Son, Christ Jesus.—1Co 2:16.
 

101G

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The thought of perfection is expressed through Hebrew terms drawn from such verbs as ka·lalʹ (perfect [compare Eze 27:4]), sha·lamʹ (come to completion [compare Isa 60:20]), and ta·mamʹ (be completed, come to perfection [compare Ps 102:27;Isa 18:5]). In the Christian Greek Scriptures the words teʹlei·os (adjective), te·lei·oʹtes (noun), and te·lei·oʹo (verb) are used similarly, conveying such ideas as bringing to completeness or full measure (Lu 8:14;2Co 12:9; Jas 1:4), being full grown, adult, or mature (1Co 14:20; Heb 5:14), having attained the appropriate or appointed end, purpose, or goal (Joh 19:28; Php 3:12).

For correct Bible understanding one must not make the common error of thinking that everything called “perfect” is so in an absolute sense, that is, to an infinite degree, without limitation. Perfection in this absolute sense distinguishes only the Creator, Jehovah God. Because of this Jesus could say of phis Father: “Nobody is good, except one, God.” (Mr 10:18) Jehovah is incomparable in his excellence, worthy of all praise, supreme in his superb qualities and powers, so that “his name alone is unreachably high.” (Ps 148:1-13; Job 36:3, 4, 26;37:16, 23, 24; Ps 145:2-10, 21) Moses extolled God’s perfection, saying: “For I shall declare the name of Jehovah. Do you attribute greatness to our God! The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he.” (De 32:3, 4) All of God’s ways, words, and law are perfect, refined, free from flaw or defect. (Ps 18:30; 19:7; Jas 1:17, 25) There is never any just cause for objection, criticism, or faultfinding regarding Him or his activity; rather, praise is always due Him.—Job 36:22-24.
Before this get too far, "perfect", here is an Adjective to describe Holiness. for the word "perfect" in the Greek is
G5046 τέλειος teleios (te'-lei-os) adj.
complete.
{(neuter as noun, with G3588) completeness; in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.}
[from G5056]
KJV: of full age, man, perfect
Root(s): G5056
what do it means to be conplete? to be Holy. for Complete = unblemished, or spotless. Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Ephesians 5:26 "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Ephesians 5:27 "That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish".
the apostle Peter confirm what God already said in the OT, 1 Peter 1:15 "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1 Peter 1:16 "Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy".

so when the Lord Jesus said, "Be Perfect, he is saying, Be holy".

PICJAG.
 

GodsGrace

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The thought of perfection is expressed through Hebrew terms drawn from such verbs as ka·lalʹ (perfect [compare Eze 27:4]), sha·lamʹ (come to completion [compare Isa 60:20]), and ta·mamʹ (be completed, come to perfection [compare Ps 102:27;Isa 18:5]). In the Christian Greek Scriptures the words teʹlei·os (adjective), te·lei·oʹtes (noun), and te·lei·oʹo (verb) are used similarly, conveying such ideas as bringing to completeness or full measure (Lu 8:14;2Co 12:9; Jas 1:4), being full grown, adult, or mature (1Co 14:20; Heb 5:14), having attained the appropriate or appointed end, purpose, or goal (Joh 19:28; Php 3:12).

For correct Bible understanding one must not make the common error of thinking that everything called “perfect” is so in an absolute sense, that is, to an infinite degree, without limitation. Perfection in this absolute sense distinguishes only the Creator, Jehovah God. Because of this Jesus could say of phis Father: “Nobody is good, except one, God.” (Mr 10:18) Jehovah is incomparable in his excellence, worthy of all praise, supreme in his superb qualities and powers, so that “his name alone is unreachably high.” (Ps 148:1-13; Job 36:3, 4, 26;37:16, 23, 24; Ps 145:2-10, 21) Moses extolled God’s perfection, saying: “For I shall declare the name of Jehovah. Do you attribute greatness to our God! The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he.” (De 32:3, 4) All of God’s ways, words, and law are perfect, refined, free from flaw or defect. (Ps 18:30; 19:7; Jas 1:17, 25) There is never any just cause for objection, criticism, or faultfinding regarding Him or his activity; rather, praise is always due Him.—Job 36:22-24.
Great post.
It reminded me of when Jesus said we are to be perfect like our Father is perfect.
Mathew 5:48
He meant it as a goal....
He meant to be mature....(if I remember)
 
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amadeus

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Great post.
It reminded me of when Jesus said we are to be perfect like our Father is perfect.
Mathew 5:48
He meant it as a goal....
He meant to be mature....(if I remember)
But do you not believe God intended for people, at least some people, to reach the goal that He set before them? Has He not made it possible for anyone to reach any goal that He would really like them to reach?
 

GodsGrace

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But do you not believe God intended for people, at least some people, to reach the goal that He set before them? Has He not made it possible for anyone to reach any goal that He would really like them to reach?
Oh my gosh A,,,,NO!
I don't think we can achieve perfection in this life.
You think we could be sinless?
 

amadeus

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Oh my gosh A,,,,NO!
I don't think we can achieve perfection in this life.
You think we could be sinless?
But what does Jesus say here?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27
Is God not in us? If we are able to surrender completely to Him continuously can He, within us, not even keep us from sin? Do we deny the power of God? Where is our faith?
 

GodsGrace

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But what does Jesus say here?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27
Is God not in us? If we are able to surrender completely to Him continuously can He, within us, not even keep us from sin? Do we deny the power of God? Where is our faith?
What does Mark 10:27 mean?
It means we're not to treasure earthly things more than God.
Man treasures his riches,,,but God can make him desire the love of God and man more.

I agree with Mark 10:27...I'm not sure we understand it the same way.
I'd get some commentaries but it's so late here.

The disciples even began to say all that they had left behind for Jesus...
only with God is this possible.

I do believe we get better and better, but I don't believe we ever STOP sinning.
This is not meant as an encouragement to sin...we are called to be perfect....holy and mature. Mathew 5:48
 

Collin Feener

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But do you not believe God intended for people, at least some people, to reach the goal that He set before them? Has He not made it possible for anyone to reach any goal that He would really like them to reach?
If it is we are created from what we see and believe in the scriptures, what when we see the Spirit. Are we not created in God's image then? Of cource we are and now the fall is behind us. If we see the father, we are like Adam and fathers, like priests. This is what I believe is the resurrection of Adam in the last day. If we are created in the image of the Holy Spirit and do we not move above the waters, yes. When we die, we are allready created in the Spirit so we are raised up like Jesus and live, even after death, death has no sting. The flesh becomes Spirit so we become Spirit and live to rein with Jesus 1000 years like Adam was created to rein with the Lord 1000 years. If we see eternal life, we become as we see or if we see eternal we have already received it and live on after our physical death.
 
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ScottA

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I do not see where God created the world "perfect". I do believe Adam and Eve were perfectly made "in His image", probably heartier and stronger, bigger maybe? But if they were created as "perfect beings" then, they would not have sinned. I can see God, giving them free will, with the ability TO sin. And, of course, God knew they would sin. He want's His children to choose to Love Him. It could also be that the Glory of God's love and grace could not be realized unless Adam and Eve did sin. Or, maybe it is a combination?
:)
Indeed, you are correct.

Perfection with men did not come until Christ spoke it, say, "You shall be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." Which He explained, came "the third day", which He expounded upon to Paul, saying that "My strength is made perfect in [our] weakness."
 
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