To Debate Is Not Of God

I ask you, how do you debate the truth?, when you speak the truth and the other person, aethist or christan does not receive it, it is not your problem it is between them and God. If two people need to debate then they do not have the truth. The truth is the truth and no debating in the world will change that, neither will debating change how the other person receives it. We plant the seed God waters and HE receives the final harvest,In His love

mjrhealth said:

I ask you, how do you debate the truth?, when you speak the truth and the other person, aethist or christan does not receive it, it is not your problem it is between them and God. If two people need to debate then they do not have the truth. The truth is the truth and no debating in the world will change that, neither will debating change how the other person receives it. We plant the seed God waters and HE receives the final harvest,In His love

Click to expand...

Hello mjrhealth. I too thought after reading these posts, that truth is just that, truth! I mean I could debate till I was blue in the face, thatthe law of gravity is false, but that wouldn't change the fact, that gravity applies in this natural world to everything. Even something that is able to fly or float, will still have to submit to the law of gravity at some stage. When God described Himself, He said:" I AM ", so He just IS ! Since HeIs also THE TRUTH, I would think that we can also say:" TRUTH IS ". But the search for truth, can most certainly bring a lot of questions, whetherpeople ask each other or the better way, ask Him ! I know from experience that He is only too happy to explain truth to us, although there are timeswhen we may not be ready or equipped to receive truth, as He wants to build us up His way, so that when we do get the answer we're seeking, we willbe able to not only understand it, but also be able to apply it. Also once you get the truth from The Lord Himself, that will end any debating, as truthis confirmed/verified by His Holy Spirit, and not only that, but you'll see the truth at work.Maybe the word 'debate' is a term that makes one think of disagreements, I can't think of an instance where two people have debated over something thatthey are in full agreement of, so in that respect I do think it's true that God doesn't want us to debate about Him , what He wants, is for us to have truthrevealed to us from above, that way we could all become one IN HIM , so as Jesus said:" Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you shall find. Knock, andthe door will be opened to you." The question is, do we truly believe that? Did He tell us the truth? For myself, the answer is :" Yes, I do believe Him."But I have also noticed that I need Him to explain what was written, then I understand. There are times when it's self explanatory, but mostly it is not, andthat can certainly create many problems and divisions ( just look at how many different denominations there are, and they all proclaim the bible as their source.)We should remember that we've been told that God is not the author of confusion, so if we become confused, it's not by Him. Another thing to remember, is thatthe bible isn't only words from God to man, but also from man to God, as well as man's impressions of God, man's understanding of God ( which Jesus came to correctas quite obviously, man had gotten many varied things wrong ).Sorry I didn't mean for this to get so long, but The Truth of God is the very foundation of our faith and thus should be at the forefront of our seeking.Jesus said that He is The Truth, The way and The Life ( in that order ). The Truth shows us The Way into The Life ( eternal ).In His Love Pia

I wont waste my time arguing with someone who wont listen but i beleive a good healthy debate is good

gumby said:

I wont waste my time arguing with someone who wont listen but i beleive a good healthy debate is good

Click to expand...

I agree with you. A healthy debate is the best way to go. It causes one to think. But the question is, how does one know if they listen or don't? Because what I seen by many confuses confident with ego. That is a yuck yuck!

Jordan said:

I agree with you. A healthy debate is the best way to go. It causes one to think. But the question is, how does one know if they listen or don't? Because what I seen by many confuses confident with ego. That is a yuck yuck!

Click to expand...

Matthew 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces" Let me expand upon my first statment, what i mean is dont bother wasting your time with someone who insults or makes fun of you. If people wont listen then simply dont bother with them.

gumby said:

Jordan said:

I agree with you. A healthy debate is the best way to go. It causes one to think. But the question is, how does one know if they listen or don't? Because what I seen by many confuses confident with ego. That is a yuck yuck!

Click to expand...

Matthew 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces" Let me expand upon my first statment, what i mean is dont bother wasting your time with someone who insults or makes fun of you. If people wont listen then simply dont bother with them.

Click to expand...

I agree with the verse. I'm just saying, how can you tell if one wants to learn or one just want to debate just to cause division? I will admit, some argues more than others, but then it goes back to the question I just posted.Blessings

You bring up a good point jordan, first of all though what i usually do is bring up the root of that persons on salvation. Weather or not they have been baptized or accepted jesus weather or not they do or dont go to church. Just lots of personal questions like that and then match the persons problems to the bible and use the bible as gods tool to help people. And a good example to know when to stop preaching is when someone says something like "dont force your religion on me or some cop out like that. Mainly though i would say for me it takes a good bit of discernment to know the person first.

Hi again, sorry if I have offended in any way. I have nothing against a good debate, about just about anything,but for me personally, I've been asking for and seeking the truth ( the whole truth and nothing but the truth )ever since I first encountered Jesus in 1986, and He hasn't disappointed yet.I still love to have in-depth conversations or debates if you like, with anybody who'd like to, about what we think and feel about just about anything. But now there are just some things, that I don't debate over anymore, even with myself, because I've gotten the answer,the actual truth about a thing, thus ending my speculations.I consider myself very fortunate, in that I wasn't brought up with any religion what so ever, so I had very few thoughtsor opinions about any of it, except I was taught one year of 'Christianity' in my 3rd year at school, and I had believedand accepted that God existed and that He had sent His Son Jesus, and that He was going to save us from Hell, if we weregood. That was the extent of my knowledge. Also I didn't know that the information from school was from the Bible, justlittle story books.I wonder if you would have a look at Romans 14:1 right through.Please do not take this as if I'm saying any of you areweak in faith, I'm not! But I would like to say, that look at Mary, what did she do when God's Word came to her? Shereplied :" Let it be unto me, as You have said.". By her agreement, His Word entered into her, as a Seed, then The Holy Spirit'came upon ' her, and The Seed multiplied and multiplied until it became a human embryo, then unto a full grown baby, whowas born into this world, became approved of by God, and was infilled with God's Holy Spirit as a result.Because of all Jesus did He is then able to offer His word to us! See John 16:7-13.So He is saying to us:" Come unto Me,let me give you The Promise of The Holy spirit, from My Father and your Father. Receive this seed of My Word, into yourself,then let The Holy Spirit enter to bring The Seed, LIFE ( the ability to multiply and multiply ), until Christ be fully formedwithin you ( see Gal 4:19 ). Paul was laboring to tell them revealed truth from above,and to teach them, how they themselvesshould become mature, by receiving from God, themselves. Learning to go boldly to The Throne of Grace, with whatever need orquestion.So Mary was the vessel through which The Seed of God Himself became flesh and blood and entered this earthly realm ( very different from His own realm,no doubt ), enabling us now to receive The Seed of God Himself into our 'dead' spirits and bringing us alive to Him ( as we hadbeen prior to the fall,but now even better ).However much or little we choose to allow our new being to grow is now entirely up to us.But we all desperately need a totallysolid foundation, and that we can only get from above. The revelation of Jesus Christ Himself. Without that, everythingelse can become very iffy, as we all lean to human understandings and limitations.Me, well I'm hungry for more of Him all the time. This is one time where I don't care how 'fat' I'll get. " bring it on " I say !!!I would absolute adore reading anybodies testimony's here on this forum. Anybody up to it? Any encounter, visual, audible or howeverit came, I know He has many ways to reach us.Thank you in advance. God's blessings to all Pia

hi Pia... let me first say that I appreciate do deeply your attitude... thanks for the warm way in which you make you points known.. I would just say that if you do not feel led to engage someone in a conversation where it is over an issue that is settled in your own mind, well of course this is between you and God... for me, if an issue is settled in my own mind, it is all the more reason TO debate it, after all if someone is wanting to debate an issue I am not sure of myself, I do not think I would be all that inclined to have ever debated it in the first place... but I would likely debate an issue I am pretty sure on as hopefully I have arrived at those conclusions for pretty good reasons, and thus I am in the position to share those reasons with someone else... as I am sure of my beliefs and regardless if the person I am having the discussion/debate with agrees or disagrees, it doesn't matter as I am in the best of all possible situations in order to best defend the beliefs in question... further, in the process of the debate, as I think over the issues again in my mind, I can become all the more convinced and thus my own faith strengthened to deeper and deeper levels through the process of debate... so too someone may convince me that where I was previously very sure of myself, I was wrong… and if you do not continue to subject your thoughts to scrutiny you can hold on to error…. After all, none of us has a perfect theology such that we do not need to be corrected… so if we think that just because an issue is pretty settled in our own minds, and that because of this we do not ever discuss/debate it with anyone, we can wrongly hang on to error…looking at Ro 14:1, "First, when a Christian thinks another at fault in a practice not covered clearly by the moral traditions passed on to the Church by the apostles (1 Th. 4:1 ff.) he must stifle his impulse to interfere, and be tolerant (14:1-12). Secondly, when a Christian is considered by others to be thus at fault, his desire must be not to injure them; he should be prepared to make concessions rather than be the cause of trouble in the church (14:13-15:6). Thirdly, Paul adduces broader incentives to unity (15:7-13)." (NIBC)"1-4 The word "eat" characterizes this section. Diet practices differ, and these differences can easily become a basis of disagreement. Paul terms overscrupulous believers as those who are "weak in faith," meaning that the faith of such persons is not strong enough to enable them to perceive the full liberty they have in Christ. They are plagued by doubt as to whether it is right for them to eat certain foods (cf. v.23). The injunction to those who do not share this weakness is to "accept" them warmly (v.1) and not to pass judgment on them. Weak Christians must not be made to feel inferior or unwanted. The specialized use of "faith" (GK G4411) becomes clearer when Paul gives it a definite context (v.2). One person, obviously strong in faith, feels he can eat anything. Paul would concur that he has this freedom (1Ti 4:3-4). Another person, weak in his faith, confines his diet to vegetables. The motive for doing so is a personal matter, and for that reason Paul does not make it an issue. He is solely concerned with specific practice and the reaction of the strong to this practice. The omnivorous man is apt to "look down" on the weak brother, an attitude that is not conducive to full fellowship. The weak brother may retaliate by condemning the one who has no inhibitions about his food. If so, the latter needs to reflect on the fact that God has accepted this man (v.3), so why should he himself not do so? To reinforce the rebuke, Paul cites the relationship of a servant to his master (v.4). In ordinary life, it would be unseemly for anyone to attempt to interfere in a case involving the servant's actions. Thus the strong certainly may enjoy their freedom in Christ. This assurance is grounded not so much on the discretion of the strong as on the power of Christ to sustain him." (NIVBC)I agree that we can only get a solid foundation from above, but it seems that the "above" often uses the "here below" to accomplish those ends and goals... in other words, God uses other people in the body of Christ to reach us and teach us and to strengthen our faith etc... I realize that we are not disagreeing with one another here, at least I don't think we are, but we are rather looking at the same issue from slightly different perspectives or perhaps better, stressing different aspects of the same situation...like you, I was not raised in a Christian home... my parents separated a lot before they finally divorced, one of the times they got back together they thought going to church would save their marriage, and it would have had both parties been involved, but my mom was raised a Roman Catholic, my dad not as a Christian at all, and for numerous reasons they never could make it work, but for awhile my sisters went to a Roman Catholic school, and while I was too old to go, since it stopped at the 8th grade and I was in the 9th, i did have to go to a Roman Catholic church for awhile... but that was the extent of my at home exposure to God... there were Sunday school buses that came through the neighborhoods when I was younger and I remember going because they offered candy or 50 cents or something like that to everyone who came, but other than vague recollections of flannel graph Jesus, I did not get too much from it... eventually I went to college and this was a crucial point in my life... as I started to check out "spiritualityies" I came across a brilliant professor who was just about to get his PhD in Philosophy from Notre Dame, he has since returned to medical school, gotten his PhD in medicine as well and is one of the few people in the US to simultaneously hold PhD's in both Philosophy and Psychiatry... anyways.. it turned out that he was also a conservative Christian... I was just blown away by the depth of Christianity intellectually that this guy showed me, whereas before I thought of Christianity as an emotional or spiritual thing only, he showed me just how profound intellectually that Christianity as and that a Cristian need not fear defending the truth of Christianity even in the finest Ivy League schools…... well I took every class I could from him and eventually transferred to a liberal Christian college so that I could hear their views, but I remained a conservative Christian throughout this experience and eventually transferred to a conservative school where I graduated in 96... and I too have been "hungry" for more ever since originally, in the early 80’s, I was led to Christ by a woman who was very involved in Charismatic churches… she "tricked" me into reading the Scriptures to her while she was doing housework… she said she had missed her devotions that day and had work to do… dishes etc and wondered if perhaps I would read the Scriptures to her while she worked.. I was somewhat embarrassed having never really read the bible, but she said to just open it anywhere and read… and so I did, to 1Pe 4:12 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.” At that reading of the last words I suddenly felt thrust back against the back of the couch and I felt what I can only describe almost like a giant egg had been cracked over the top of my head and slowly this warm feeling spread down from my head to my feet… I then realized that while I kinda knew God existed, that He was more real than anything else in my experience… sadly as I started going to church I was pressured to speak in tongues, people tried to get me to manufacture the gift my repeating silly things over and over etc but I never did speak in tongues… so some of the people began to question my salvation, they said that I must have some secret sin in my life…. Etc etc… and I believed them, thinking that God must not love me after all since He was not giving me this gift that everyone was so concerned with… I then got involved in a very small cult that taught that Jesus was going to return at some definite point in the early 80’s.. when this did not happen my faith was shattered even more and I left Christianity behind for several years, falling back into serious sin… after a near fatal car crash as I was drinking and doing drugs, bar hopping etc, I gave my life back to God, started going to school, met the guy I mentioned previously, and determined that I would get myself the tools to check out anything anyone tried to teach me by learning how to study and read the bible, learning about church history and systematic theology and apologetics (though I would not have even known those words to describe what I would eventually learn) and availing myself of the great teachers that have lived throughout church history, comparing what anyone says to the Word of God so that I will hopefully not get led astray as I was as a young Christian…… I got to go to school in the first place rather later in life, well in my 30’s.. because I hurt my back and as a former Marine and construction worker, I was no longer able to engage in physical labor… I struggled through school on a physical level, though God blessed me with being inducted into the National Honor Society and the Deans List numerous times, I continued to have to take breaks from school as I had operation after operation, nearly dying once from a staph infection I contracted in surgery where someone or something was not sterile.. this further weakened my spine leading to greater levels of pain and more operations… eventually I had a fusion the year I graduated from college in 96, had to recover for a full year… then worked as a counselor as best as I could in serious pain the whole time after that… in 2002 I was getting some paperwork out of my car and seriously herniated 3 discs in my neck, had to have my neck fused, they did another MRI of my lower back and it turned out that the fusion I had in 96 had slipped, and discs both above and below it had been herniated for probably quite awhile… this led to another major operation, a decompression—taking out al the old hardware and then a re fusion—installation of larger bolts and new titanium cages etc--- from the top of the coccyx to nearly midway up my spine, and I was deemed totally disabled and went on Social Security Disability… this was in 2003… a few years later I had another operation where a morphine pump was installed inside me and it releases, at predetermined times, liquid morphine right on to the low spinal area and so far this has been the best treatment for the constant chronic pain… and there you have it… more information about ken then you will ever possibly need or want!! LOl… but hey.. you asked… so I guess that about brings us up to today… where I love to try and make use of my interest in Systematic Theology and Apologetics online as I am able, make use of my education, both formal and informal, learn and hopefully every now and then help newer Christians grow in their faith…. Blessings, ken

I agree with epistemaniac. I will not debate with anyone who says there is not a God. I ignore them. I think this is a good learning process, once we get over our preconceived notions of what each other really believe. A lot of times, I find we agree with each other if it was worded different. I see this a lot. We can also agree, not to agree. That is also valid. Now some think that God has only one true meaning. That is true, but it's pompous to assume that "YOUR" the one with the true meaning.

The problem is not so much the debate; the real problem is most get eally offended when truth does not line up with how they see or preceive truth. Romans 9:33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamedCan any one explain the above verse?

I agree with the op wholeheartedly and didn't even the know the Bible verse that agrees also.