True Israel is Alive and Well.

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TheWarIs1

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I have to tell you all that speaking as an Israeli, this is a pretty funny thread.
Modern Israelis are mostly impostors.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews*, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

aios = pertaining to

Iouda = Juda

Ioudaios = Juda-aios

Should read..........

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Judeans, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
 

Tehilah BaAretz

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Modern Israelis are mostly impostors.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews*, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

aios = pertaining to

Iouda = Juda

Ioudaios = Juda-aios

Should read..........

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Judeans, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Is there some reason you are using Greek to explain Hebrew to me? Personally, I understand Hebrew just fine and would prefer to stick with it when I study the Bible. I don't like Hellenism much. Trying to interpret the Bible in the light of Hellenism just sets my teeth on edge.
 

TheWarIs1

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Is there some reason you are using Greek to explain Hebrew to me? Personally, I understand Hebrew just fine and would prefer to stick with it when I study the Bible. I don't like Hellenism much. Trying to interpret the Bible in the light of Hellenism just sets my teeth on edge.
Well I don't believe the primacy of scripture was Greek but most modern English translations were based on a Greek version and many mistranslations were made due to a lack of proper translations and the influence of people whom the Lord Yeshua called generations of vipers .
I don't know what you accept as your biblical NT source but I know where much of the confusion exist on the topic and the confusion is wide spread these days and I've never heard many Jewish or ex-Jewish people touch the topic. Nathan Kapner does get close.
While the translators did the best they could they did in fact err, imo.

While the book of Mathias was believed to be written in Hebrew some believe it was the Aramaic form that went into the Peshi-ita
Do you study the Peshi-tta?

If you have a modern Hebrew translation of the Ha'Brit Chadasha I would have no way of knowing.
The Ha'Brit Chadasha in modern Hebrew would likely have the same Jewish slant to it from a Jewish translator.
Christ warned the world of these false teachers whose Father was the Father of lies and I would not give an ear to their teachings.
With that said........
You are welcome to explain the actual way things went down over 2000 years ago in Judea and how and when the Jew became known as Judaeans with a claim of being from the tribe of Judah.
I'm aware that many non-Jewish people converted to the tainted Judaism and may still claim to be Jewish which can be a religious or ethnic group depending on how advantageous the situation is.

Also if you can and you care to explain why the Old Jewish encyclopedia had Jews listed as children of Edom when that is exactly where the Jews were living in the first biblical mention of the people called Jews during the time Ahaz, a son of David ruled Jerusalem and Judea for 16 years. Even the Wiki online tells that Edomites moved to Hebron when Judeans were taken to Babylon after helping plunder and Slaughter the Judeans there. see Wiki/Edom/History
Maybe this is all new to you? Maybe you could explain the controversy of Zion too? Isa 34:8

.
Shlama/Shalom

.
 

veteran

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Well I don't believe the primacy of scripture was Greek but most modern English translations were based on a Greek version and many mistranslations were made due to a lack of proper translations and the influence of people whom the Lord Yeshua called generations of vipers .
I don't know what you accept as your biblical NT source but I know where much of the confusion exist on the topic and the confusion is wide spread these days and I've never heard many Jewish or ex-Jewish people touch the topic. Nathan Kapner does get close.
While the translators did the best they could they did in fact err, imo.

While the book of Mathias was believed to be written in Hebrew some believe it was the Aramaic form that went into the Peshi-ita
Do you study the Peshi-tta?

If you have a modern Hebrew translation of the Ha'Brit Chadasha I would have no way of knowing.
The Ha'Brit Chadasha in modern Hebrew would likely have the same Jewish slant to it from a Jewish translator.
Christ warned the world of these false teachers whose Father was the Father of lies and I would not give an ear to their teachings.
With that said........
You are welcome to explain the actual way things went down over 2000 years ago in Judea and how and when the Jew became known as Judaeans with a claim of being from the tribe of Judah.
I'm aware that many non-Jewish people converted to the tainted Judaism and may still claim to be Jewish which can be a religious or ethnic group depending on how advantageous the situation is.

Also if you can and you care to explain why the Old Jewish encyclopedia had Jews listed as children of Edom when that is exactly where the Jews were living in the first biblical mention of the people called Jews during the time Ahaz, a son of David ruled Jerusalem and Judea for 16 years. Even the Wiki online tells that Edomites moved to Hebron when Judeans were taken to Babylon after helping plunder and Slaughter the Judeans there. see Wiki/Edom/History
Maybe this is all new to you? Maybe you could explain the controversy of Zion too? Isa 34:8

.
Shlama/Shalom


Our Heavenly Father is going to sort it all out in time. It's likely not Tehilah's fault that he doesn't know about this stuff. Judaism is very much against the idea of anyone revealing how the ten tribes of Israel were scattered primarily to the West and called Caucasian Gentiles. In time many are going to be shocked to discover who the ten tribes of Israel are today, and how they way outnumber the number of Jews in the world.




 

veteran

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Jacob's name was changed to Isreal. The Jewish community have identified the 10 lost tribes and have documented them.

Name 10 christian nations. For a fact we know the USA is not a christian nation. Claims it is not a christian nation. And, has dedicated every building in washington to Baal. What is the Washington monument? The UK is not a christian nation. France.......surely you jest. Italy. Vatican..... no way. China. Russia...... I don't think so. Spain? Germany? There is no universal church or central church with its dictate from its throne --- local churches of believers is where you will find Christ.


England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Greece, Sweden, Norway, Portugal, Danmark, is that enough? I can keep going, Russia (prior to 1917), Romania, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Bulgaria, etc., all prior to WWII; these ALL became Christian Nations after Christ died on the cross and The Gospel was preached to them. Britain became the first on a national scale to accept Christ Jesus.

Obliesks like the Washington monument prove nothing since the Jews in Israel today allow a pagan temple like the Dome of The Rock to stand on the Temple Mount!!! And soon after the 1967 war when Israel took all of Jerusalem back, their Jewish leaders gave a portion of it right back to the Arabs!!!

Russia today still allows the Russian Orthodox Christian Church, even though Russia is still under Communist leadership control. Why is the Church allowed there? Because of its earlier Christian heritage. Christian believers in Russia did not stop believing on Christ Jesus when the Communists took control in 1917, and they still have not stopped believing today. The Communists lost that battle, had to re-open the Christian Churches that Stalin closed. The Communist Chinese in Red China also lost that battle, and have been forced to allow Christianity to continue to exist there too.

So it's not monuments, nor government leaders that define a nation of people. It's the people.

Iran is an Islamic nation because the majority of its people follow Islam.

The majority of people in the good ole' USA and in Europe still follow Christianity too!!

And the Jews are still a minority in those nations, even with their great wealth.
 

Charlie

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Do any of you know what, physically, separates a Jewish male from a Gentile?

It is given to us in Lev. 12:1-3

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Every Jewish male has been circumcised on the 8th day.

Any male who was not circumcised on the 8th day is not, repeat NOT, an Israelite, a Jew.

Our Lord was circumcised on the 8th day, according to Luke 2:21, in accordance with the law.

God Bless you. Charlie.

 

tomwebster

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Do any of you know what, physically, separates a Jewish male from a Gentile?

It is given to us in Lev. 12:1-3

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Every Jewish male has been circumcised on the 8th day.

Any male who was not circumcised on the 8th day is not, repeat NOT, an Israelite, a Jew.

Our Lord was circumcised on the 8th day, according to Luke 2:21, in accordance with the law.

God Bless you. Charlie.




And if the people do not know they are of Israel but think they are gentile? Do you know what percent of males in the USA are circumcised? Is physical circumcision still an ordinance for the people of God under Grace? Are YOU still living under the law?


 

Pato

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It may be funny but you have to admit it's really interesting....Oh BTW I know many people who are circumcised I even have a girlfriend of mine who is a christian and had her son circumcised on the eigth day and they're NOT Jewish at all. In fact he was NOT circumcised for any religious reasons at all....
 

veteran

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It's only funny to those who have been taught that they are Israelites by the law, when lot of them can't even prove their genealogy of Israel. They don't like getting exposed, and their leaders don't like anyone exposing all the non-Israelite peoples that crept in among Israel throughout Bible history.
 

TheWarIs1

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Do any of you know what, physically, separates a Jewish male from a Gentile?

It is given to us in Lev. 12:1-3

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Every Jewish male has been circumcised on the 8th day.

Any male who was not circumcised on the 8th day is not, repeat NOT, an Israelite, a Jew.

Our Lord was circumcised on the 8th day, according to Luke 2:21, in accordance with the law.

God Bless you. Charlie.

I realize this post has a few months of dust on it but allow me to point out a major flaw in this post that continues to spread amongst the church like a wildfire on a dry & windy summer day.


Please Scan Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy and show me every instance of the name JEW or JEWS
And explain how you arrived at this conclusion that JEWs are Jews because of circumcision mentioned in Leviticus.

Seriously if you find the word JEW in the Torah(first 5 books) then you have a really peculiar bible.


You could even go all the way to the 12th book of 2nd Kings to find out when the JEW Came on to the scene.
This will also give you an indication of just who the JEWS really were.
it may even anger you to find out how you've been had, lied too and deceived into believing the greatest deception in the bible.

Have you got eyes to see?

Wake up church


Shlama
(Peace)
 

logabe

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<div class='quotetop'>(tomwebster;64752)</div><div class='quotemain'>logabe,Just curious as to where you are getting all your material? And what does it have to do with the topic of this thread?</div>I know your question is not directed at me, but I'm missing something here. I think logabe's comments have everything to do with the subject of this thread, unless something was said that I missed somewhere.From what I read and understood, I think logabe did a fine job summarizing the fate of the lost house of Israel, the birthright and so forth. The story of Joseph is especially true. What logabe brought up is a truth seldom mentioned even by lost tribe ministries. Joseph was "lost" to his brethren and became "Gentile" and totally unrecognizable. This foreshadows a time when Israel would become great (as did Joseph) in their lost and Gentile state. In the end, all were reunited (as in Ezekiel 37 says one day will be the case).

Most of my material comes from Dr. Stephen Jones. He has helped me understand
the Bible in such a way that I can't thank him enough. I was in religion for 17 yrs. and
when Dr. Jones came along it was a fresh breath of air. You might want to try him out
sometime @ www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org.



Logabe
 

veteran

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Most of my material comes from Dr. Stephen Jones. He has helped me understand
the Bible in such a way that I can't thank him enough. I was in religion for 17 yrs. and
when Dr. Jones came along it was a fresh breath of air. You might want to try him out
sometime @ www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org.



Logabe


I checked out some of his articles. I like his position on Paul's Epistles, but not his suppositions on end time prophecy, for he appears to be a follower of Preterism.
 

logabe

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I checked out some of his articles. I like his position on Paul's Epistles, but not his suppositions on end time prophecy, for he appears to be a follower of Preterism.

No... the Preterist can't stand him... he uncovers some of their
half truths in his blogs and they are not to fond of him. I have
met some of them that didn't have anything good to say about
him.


Logabe
 

veteran

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No... the Preterist can't stand him... he uncovers some of their
half truths in his blogs and they are not to fond of him. I have
met some of them that didn't have anything good to say about
him.


Logabe


I checked out his exposition on the 70 weeks in the Book of Daniel, and he follows the Historicist and Preterist theology in that, treating the final "one week" as having been fulfilled by Christ's crucifixion, and that the 70 weeks was then completed. It's impossible to treat that final "one week" of Dan.9:27 being about Christ Jesus and stay within that 70 weeks prophecy, which also is determined by the other prophetic events given in Daniel, especially Dan.9:24 and the tribulation markers within the rest of the Book of Daniel.

 

Buzzfruit

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I believe that after the Assyrians captured the 10 northern tribes and 2 southern tribes of Israel and put them into captivity in the land of the Medes and Persians that the Israelites migrated northward into the area we call Europe today. The only segment of the Israelitish population that did not go into Assyrian captivity was that portion of Judah (and Benjamin) that we protected within the three fenced cities. The Babylonians later took that portion of Judah into captivity. Paul was an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin. A major misnomer taught in mainstream Christian churches is that all Israelites are Jews. This is simply a false belief. The term "Jew" was used to describe those of the tribe of Judah. Someone of the tribe of Judah could possibly be called a Jew but someone of the tribe of Dan or Manassah is not a Jew.

I agree with you 100%.
 

Duckybill

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It's amusing watching 'Christians' trying to deny that the Nation called Israel isn't really Israel. Sad but amusing.
 

Buzzfruit

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It's amusing watching 'Christians' trying to deny that the Nation called Israel isn't really Israel. Sad but amusing.


The Jews are not the house of Israel.......they were only one of 12 tribes of Israel. Just because the State of Israel is called the State of Israel does not mean that it is the house of Israel. To believe that the Jews in the State of are Israel is like saying that New York is the United State of America.

How many people in the State of Israel do you know or ever herd calling themselves anything other than a Jews? They are all Jews, of the tribe of Judah. None call themselves of the tribe of Ephraim or Manasseh for example. The Bible shows us that all the tribes had their own territory and boundaries……..they did not intermarry among themselves to become one single tribe.



The tribe is Israel and the tribe of Judah (the Jews) is mentioned separately.

2 Kings 17:18 (ASV)
[sup]18 [/sup]Therefore Jehovah was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.

God separated the house of Israel from the house of David (Judah).

2 Kings 17:20-23 (ASV)
[sup]20 [/sup]And Jehovah rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them, and delivered them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight.
[sup]21 [/sup]For he rent Israel from the house of David; and they made Jeroboam the son of Nebat king: and Jeroboam drove Israel from following Jehovah, and made them sin a great sin.
[sup]22 [/sup]And the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them;
[sup]23 [/sup]until Jehovah removed Israel out of his sight, as he spake by all his servants the prophets. So Israel was carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.

2 Chronicles 11:1 (ASV)
[sup]1 [/sup]And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled the house of Judah and Benjamin, a hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, that were warriors, to fight against Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam.

1 Kings 12:21-22 (ESV)
[sup]21 [/sup]When Rehoboam came to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah and the tribe of Benjamin, 180,000 chosen warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to restore the kingdom to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.
[sup]22 [/sup]But the word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God:
 

HammerStone

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I don't understand why this is such an uncomfortable issue. I know the extreme is to take this into the neighborhood of racism, but this understanding of what happened to the 10 tribes who went north is not about any sacred chosen race meant to be masters of another. Very clearly that ignores the grafting that Paul talks about in Romans 11:17-24. That's the promise of a God who loves any and all and is not bound by skin color. The time when these sticks are joined together is clearly not any past time.

I admit that I plan to leave the tares to God in all respects, but I think we need to challenge some notions based on tangible and qualitative evidence. We know that language patterns suggest a transition from areas in the middle east into Europe. (This is, of course, oversimplification, but nevertheless remains a general trend.) Place names and people names further suggest links at the very least in beliefs, but can suggest more than that. I don't think we have an appreciation or adequate understanding of old world populations in trade. In an unrelated subject, I've seen tangible evidence American continent Native American populations are perhaps larger than originally projected.

I'm not a man of junk science. I believe that with an all-powerful God and someone as evil as Satan out there that things in this world aren't always clear and immediate. We have to look at the reality that leftovers from past civilizations will not be complete. Dig a hundred or so years from now (much less thousands) and most common objects will not be available. We rely heavily on paper, but much of that won't be around. One might assume from these plastic and metal boxes that all of our information was stored there and conducted there somehow.

I'm all for science and certainly don't believe that every scientist is out there to fool us. However, I am aware of their limitations.