Why are the 7 Churches in Revelation each greeted differently...
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Waiting on him
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Waiting on him
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Waiting on him
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Waiting on him
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Gods wrath is love pours out even to the horses bridles
Waiting on him
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I am so pleased that passage came to your mind. There are dots to connect. After all, Solomon said it was the glory of God to conceal a matter.
It is John, Mary's son, who gives us the passage about "born again" in his Gospel. John takes up theme again about "sons of God" in his epistles.; and in Revelation, we see it again when he talks about the man child!
John tells us about the woman and dragon -- taking us back to Genesis with Eve and serpent. The war was between the "seed of the serpent " and the "seed of the woman." That verse in Genesis is critical to understanding many odd things in the Bible. People can debate what the "man child" caught up into Heaven means. Could it be Jesus? It could be since a pattern is seen: Jesus went to Heaven while Mary stayed behind and was persecuted by the dragon. But then we must ask who are the other children of this woman?
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The woman is also said to be given eagle wings.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
I have to think about:
Exodus 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exodus marked the beginning of an age and the beginning of another. It was not only people born to Israel after the flesh who left Egypt. There were Egyptians who left with them. We see that Moses' in-laws, although not from Egypt, also joined Israel. Gentiles took the vow at Sinai and were "added on" to the "original tree" which was growing new branches -- just the way Paul talked about Gentiles being grafted on in the Christan era. There is no mistaking the similarities. We see this "eagle" playing a role.
That "eagle" can be take on the form of a dove too at times. If it's an eagle, it means it's going to "take up the serpent" with its mouth and take care of it. If it's a dove, it means things are peaceful -- no serpents around.
The first reference to this "bird" can be seen in Genesis 1:2. The translation is difficult since the Hebrew could mean different things.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
It could easily be read as "fluttered" the way a bird flutters its wings. It is translated "flutter" here:
Deu 32:11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:
12 So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.
I see the Holy Spirit being depicted as a bird in Genesis 1:3, so I think "flutter" would be a better translation than the ambiguous "moved."
We can not possibly escape noticing how the bird is depicted at the end of another age and beginning of another when the dove flies over the waters. It's Genesis 1 being replayed but in a fuller manner. Each world-age is making progress. Each world-age also seems to follow a similar pattern.
Jesus also indicated that this bird fluttering its wings to collect its offspring had been going on for a long time -- and that he had been involved in it.
Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
I think this started in Genesis. God's plan took into account the "the children" of Jerusalem even then. We should not think Jesus sat in heaven for 4000 years doing nothing to help people on the earth. He was doing what he could --preparing things so the hearts of men could receive him.
I am confident that Jesus was doing what he could, and suffering too in his efforts to help mankind. He did not like, God did not like, the idea of animal sacrifices; but if man was not ready to receive Messiah, then the animals' blood could at least remove the earthly stain of sin. It did nothing about removing the spiritual stain. It was necessary at some point to change the patterns of things in heaven. Those patterns change at the end of each age. John is telling us his eye-witness account of how things were changing in heaven and how that interplays with earth. Those changes were to take place shortly -- they did too -- the whole pattern of things in Heaven were changed.
Hebrews 6:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
The "clean" animals at the time of Noah had taken on this role in the covenant God made with Noah and the animals. The "clean" animals agreed to it. The "unclean" animals did not, so they were not acceptable sacrifices. Covenants are made by parties who agree to the terms, so I cannot believe God imposed this on the clean animals. They were willing to do what they could.
Note too that the passage from Hebrews mentions Jesus appearing a "second time without sin" to those who look for him. Compare that to what John said about those who are fully born of God do not sin. At baptism, the soul is washed -- a new soul emerges not from the physical water but by the Waters of Life. The temptation to sin remains however. Our task is to "work out our own salvation" to a certain extent. As we mature, we need to stop relying too much on what Jesus bore on the cross and take up our own. Those who stumble at taking up their own crosses when the time comes Jesus may fall by the wayside. Jesus asks us to imitate him.
Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
It watches and waits, and wonders if there are any more stains to be washed. This soul is like the bride fretting about all the details -- "Is this right, is that right? I want everything to be perfect when he sees me."
And though she does not know the day or hour, the bridegroom knows. When she is ready, he comes.
Try imagining yourself in her shoes at the crucifixion and remembering what Gabriel said. You can see your child dying but the angel told you:
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
I think her answer again was "How shall this be?" I also think she remembered what Gabriel said, "For with God nothing shall be impossible."
I also love how she "laid up treasure" in heaven. After the shepherds came, she still didn't understand everything. She knew she didn't. But what she had been given, what she had heard, was stored as "treasure" in her heart.
Luke 2:19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
She didn't talk about them that much. Only Luke seems to have gotten her to talk about them to him. Why talk if you aren't sure? You treasure what you were given and ponder it, waiting, waiting, and having faith. You ponder. There is a wonderful message in that verse, and I think it right if we can imitate Mary when reading Revelation. Read it, yes. Hear it, yes. Do what we know we need to do -- and then wait.
Hebrews 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
I can think of only one case where this wasn't so. I could be wrong, but I can think of only one case where a man had a loved one brought back to life. It is almost always women who want it, and holy men get God to do it. Male and female agree -- and then, by the Grace of God, it becomes so.
There are a few times when it seems Jesus changed his mind. The two I can think of now were both to make women happy. What they wanted was good, so he did it and made them happy. There may be some "hidden" wisdom in that. Maybe you don't really deserve something. Maybe Jesus will tell you no if you ask him. If you can get Mary to ask or pray to him, maybe he'll do it for her even if you don't deserve it. If Protestants find that hard to accept and don't believe in the saints in Heaven being able to pray to Jesus on our behalf, then I recommend they find good women they know to pray for them.
Hebrews 6:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
The "clean" animals at the time of Noah had taken on this role in the covenant God made with Noah and the animals. The "clean" animals agreed to it. The "unclean" animals did not, so they were not acceptable sacrifices. Covenants are made by parties who agree to the terms, so I cannot believe God imposed this on the clean animals. They were willing to do what they could.
Note too that the passage from Hebrews mentions Jesus appearing a "second time without sin" to those who look for him. Compare that to what John said about those who are fully born of God do not sin. At baptism, the soul is washed -- a new soul emerges not from the physical water but by the Waters of Life. The temptation to sin remains however. Our task is to "work out our own salvation" to a certain extent. As we mature, we need to stop relying too much on what Jesus bore on the cross and take up our own. Those who stumble at taking up their own crosses when the time comes Jesus may fall by the wayside. Jesus asks us to imitate him.
Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
It watches and waits, and wonders if there are any more stains to be washed. This soul is like the bride fretting about all the details -- "Is this right, is that right? I want everything to be perfect when he sees me."
And though she does not know the day or hour, the bridegroom knows. When she is ready, he comes.
The faith and purity of Mary continues to astonish me. How easy it would have been for most of us to stumble at the crucifixion if we were in her shoes. I am almost 100% sure she thought about what Gabriel told her. How could what Gabriel said to her come to pass when she could see Jesus dying on the cross?
Try imagining yourself in her shoes at the crucifixion and remembering what Gabriel said. You can see your child dying but the angel told you:
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
I think her answer again was "How shall this be?" I also think she remembered what Gabriel said, "For with God nothing shall be impossible."
I also love how she "laid up treasure" in heaven. After the shepherds came, she still didn't understand everything. She knew she didn't. But what she had been given, what she had heard, was stored as "treasure" in her heart.
Luke 2:19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
She didn't talk about them that much. Only Luke seems to have gotten her to talk about them to him. Why talk if you aren't sure? You treasure what you were given and ponder it, waiting, waiting, and having faith. You ponder. There is a wonderful message in that verse, and I think it right if we can imitate Mary when reading Revelation. Read it, yes. Hear it, yes. Do what we know we need to do -- and then wait.
Hebrews 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
I can think of only one case where this wasn't so. I could be wrong, but I can think of only one case where a man had a loved one brought back to life. It is almost always women who want it, and holy men get God to do it. Male and female agree -- and then, by the Grace of God, it becomes so.
There are a few times when it seems Jesus changed his mind. The two I can think of now were both to make women happy. What they wanted was good, so he did it and made them happy. There may be some "hidden" wisdom in that. Maybe you don't really deserve something. Maybe Jesus will tell you no if you ask him. If you can get Mary to ask or pray to him, maybe he'll do it for her even if you don't deserve it. If Protestants find that hard to accept and don't believe in the saints in Heaven being able to pray to Jesus on our behalf, then I recommend they find good women they know to pray for them.
How earthly churches perform should not be a mystery. The men can do all they want in their public roles -- they can teach and preach and exercise authority -- but if the women in the church are not not asking God for good things (perhaps even things that seem impossible), I doubt that church will go very far. Paul may have been in a hurry when he wrote that men having authority and women having children. He is certainly hard to understand at times, as Peter tells us. It is true that "holy mothers" tend to have "holy children" -- that pattern is seen time and time again in the Old Testament; but I give it another application too -- I don't believe people will move too much in the right direction of that perfection of being "born of God" "without sin" unless godly women in a church are praying. The war between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent starts in Genesis, is discussed in Revelation -- and of course, it continues today.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
People can either accept Revelation or reject it; but I doubt, really I do, if it is possible to understand much in Revelation if someone shows any disrespect for Mary. I do not say people must see Mary the way I do; but I do wonder how can I be like Jesus too much if Mary is not my mother as well? It is enough perhaps not to revile Mary as I have seen some do. I don't insist people adopt my views; but if anyone has anything negative to say about her, I have to see their words as coming from the serpent who seems to revel in accusations. I have seen some people say shocking things about Mary. Did they ever ask themselves what Jesus would think if he heard such things about someone he loved?
The people who seemed to enjoy reviling Mary did not have "the testimony of Jesus Christ" to me -- they are not of the remnant of the seed of the correct type of woman as Eve was before the fall. They seemed like the seed of the serpent to me -- enjoying saying poisonous things. Some things are hard to grasp, and even harder if we're taught things to the contrary. The proper course to take about such things is not to revile about things we know we don't yet understand. If we don't understand something, the best course is to abstain from saying negative things. Postpone judgment, wait for truth to be revealed. Do not become, as Peter put it, like "brute beasts."
2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
He is taking about the "tongue" that James says God must tame for us. Don't say some things -- don't let evil words, bitter words, come from the fountain of your mouth. Wait for God to purify your tongue and lips. Ask Him to. Isaiah had his lips purified after he knew he had unclean lips. It's one thing to think something -- but what comes out of us is what defiles us.
James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Consider Cain. He "inherited" the impure lips or unclean tongue. God asked him, told him, warned him, that sin was at the door after those wrathful words were spoken. Cain did not allow God to bridle his tongue by regretting his words and asking God for help. It led to murder. God can tame our tongues . . . if we refuse to allow poison to come out. He can even remove the poison that wants to come out; and if people offer you poison and you swallow it, it will do no harm. If we allow the Holy Spirit to work, it can handle the poison within and even allow us to heal the sick. I hope no one takes this passage to mean only physical serpents, that we must handle snakes to prove something. Maybe some can handle snakes in the physical sense, but I don't think the physical is the most important way to read this:
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
People can either accept Revelation or reject it; but I doubt, really I do, if it is possible to understand much in Revelation if someone shows any disrespect for Mary. I do not say people must see Mary the way I do; but I do wonder how can I be like Jesus too much if Mary is not my mother as well? It is enough perhaps not to revile Mary as I have seen some do. I don't insist people adopt my views; but if anyone has anything negative to say about her, I have to see their words as coming from the serpent who seems to revel in accusations. I have seen some people say shocking things about Mary. Did they ever ask themselves what Jesus would think if he heard such things about someone he loved?
The people who seemed to enjoy reviling Mary did not have "the testimony of Jesus Christ" to me -- they are not of the remnant of the seed of the correct type of woman as Eve was before the fall. They seemed like the seed of the serpent to me -- enjoying saying poisonous things. Some things are hard to grasp, and even harder if we're taught things to the contrary. The proper course to take about such things is not to revile about things we know we don't yet understand. If we don't understand something, the best course is to abstain from saying negative things. Postpone judgment, wait for truth to be revealed. Do not become, as Peter put it, like "brute beasts."
2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
He is taking about the "tongue" that James says God must tame for us. Don't say some things -- don't let evil words, bitter words, come from the fountain of your mouth. Wait for God to purify your tongue and lips. Ask Him to. Isaiah had his lips purified after he knew he had unclean lips. It's one thing to think something -- but what comes out of us is what defiles us.
James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Consider Cain. He "inherited" the impure lips or unclean tongue. God asked him, told him, warned him, that sin was at the door after those wrathful words were spoken. Cain did not allow God to bridle his tongue by regretting his words and asking God for help. It led to murder. God can tame our tongues . . . if we refuse to allow poison to come out. He can even remove the poison that wants to come out; and if people offer you poison and you swallow it, it will do no harm. If we allow the Holy Spirit to work, it can handle the poison within and even allow us to heal the sick. I hope no one takes this passage to mean only physical serpents, that we must handle snakes to prove something. Maybe some can handle snakes in the physical sense, but I don't think the physical is the most important way to read this:
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
VictoryinJesus
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What is the significance of Genesis 8:12-And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
...the waters were abated
...the cover was removed from the ark ...and behold, the face of the ground was dry.
To Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
She found a place for the soles of her feet to rest and made her abode...John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
“The Kingdom of God is in your midst”
Matthew 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
A great point. You remind me of another passage:
Matthew 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
Almost, but . . . she tried to kill them all and Elijah thought she had, but he found out later he was mistaken.
I have a question about Elijah and Jezebel. He could call down fire from heaven and have the prophets of Baal killed, but he fled from Jezebel.
1 Kings 19:1 And Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and withal how he had slain all the prophets with the sword.
2 Then Jezebel sent a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to morrow about this time.
3 And when he saw that, he arose, and went for his life, and came to Beersheba, which belongeth to Judah, and left his servant there.
Why did he flee like that?
VictoryinJesus
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Thank you for all you shared here. It is beautiful and I Agree. Although I am probably not the best to respond concerning Mary. From a young girl up I was not taught to value women very much, so I had never considered Mary before and maybe even downplayed her significance. Until recently, when that view changed. There is Hope that others who speak ignorantly as I have in the past, can change their mind.
VictoryinJesus
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“if people offer you poison and you swallow it, it will do no harm.”
“I don't think the physical is the most important way to read this:
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover”
Exactly!!
VictoryinJesus
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Consider Revelation 1:1-2 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: [2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
The blessing being in Galatians 1:10-13
[10] For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. [11] But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. [12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. [13] For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
“The gospel which was preached of me” ...neither received it of man...was not taught it...but BY the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:12-13 Unto whom (the prophets of old)it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. [13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
What?? Grace brought unto you at the Revelation of Jesus Christ?? Then why does man turn it into such a dark book that should be avoided??
Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
“For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.” ...which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants.
Waiting on him
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