First Earth Age.

Selene · May 31, 2010

Brother Mike said:
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

I read it that the earth was finished, then we are given the account of how God created man.
Jesus Is Lord.

Brother Mike, you need to read further down in Chapter 2. Look closely at what Genesis Chapter 2 says when you read further down:

Genesis 2:5-20 And every plant of the field before it sprung up in the earth, and every herb of the ground before it grew: for the Lord God had not rained upon the earth; and there was not a man to till the earth. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil...............And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.

In Chapter 2, after forming Adam from the ground, God planted a garden and put man there. Then he formed the plants and the trees. Then he formed the animals. Brother Mike, the two chapters are not the same.

In Christ,
Selene

Brother Mike · May 31, 2010

Selene:

I understand your observation.

Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Proverbs gives us some insight to the creation, there is some "Obscure" scripture refrence that the Garden may have been the only habititable place on on earth at that time. Not that there we not any plants anywhere else or things, but plants that would sustain man.

The focus in Gen chapter 2 is the Garden. The plants put there for Adam must have come After God made Adam, and the concept to till the ground would indicate these plants were needed for food, and yet been created yet.

In any case, your view is fine by me.

What I am interested in, is this reincarnation theory, and getting the answers to my post above.........

God bless you Selene!!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

Selene · May 31, 2010

Brother Mike said:
Selene:

I understand your observation.

Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Proverbs gives us some insight to the creation, there is some "Obscure" scripture refrence that the Garden may have been the only habititable place on on earth at that time. Not that there we not any plants anywhere else or things, but plants that would sustain man.

The focus in Gen chapter 2 is the Garden. The plants put there for Adam must have come After God made Adam, and the concept to till the ground would indicate these plants were needed for food, and yet been created yet.

In any case, your view is fine by me.

What I am interested in, is this reincarnation theory, and getting the answers to my post above.........

God bless you Selene!!!!

Jesus Is Lord.

REINCARNATION????

I should have read more of the posts on this thread. Reincarnation is a Buddhist belief, not a Christian one.

God bless you too, Brother Mike.

Brother Mike · May 31, 2010

Yes Selene, reincarnation. Now mind you, it will be attempted to dress it up and hide what it really is.

JerryJohnson made a comment that what we have done in our past life, may effect us today. I pointed out that is reincarnation beliefs, and attempted to walk in love and just poke fun at it, not going into all the evils of it with Brother JerryJohnson and I was given a message from Hammerstone that I was in the Wrong.

If you read at the start of the Post, Hammerstone does not call Christiana out on the carpet for this reincarnation belief.

So, I want scriptures that prove men were on earth before Adam as spirits, I want to know why the Angels were judged and man escaped, and given a second chance in a flesh body. I want specific time periods mentioned in scriptures about when the spirit of man was created and where those spirits were placed.

If I am not given that, then we have yet another Eastern belief mixed with Christianity.

Selene as I told you before, your Catholic and we believe different, but not so different to allow a reincarnation belief. That was my point in that other thread.

God bless your family sister, and all you find to do, in the name of the Lord.

Jesus Is Lord.

Christina · May 31, 2010

This has nothing to do with reincarnation its just more smoke and mirrors by mike
its about we are spirit bodies God created our spirits before we were flesh this is where he fore knows us from I cor 15 describes these bodies when we die we return to spirit and are with the Lord ...flesh returns to the dust

39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Brother Mike · May 31, 2010

Who was the last Adam?

You missed all my questions Christina. I have already read Cor..................... You stated that we were in spirit form on earth before Adam.

We now came back again, that belief is called reincarnation.

I want to know.

1) What scripture put us here as spirits on earth before Adam. And why did God say lets create man in our image, and created that man in the image of God. Of course Adam had a spirit, in a flesh body. This was the start of man, and lets create man, was after the earth was laid to waste.

2) God knew us before the Womb, What scripture puts that time period in the first Earth age, before the first flood?

3) I want to know why the Angels were judged, be we escaped judgment somehow to get a second chance. I want scripture.
I would also like you to explain your thinking on each scripture, so I am asking you to teach.

Your post above does not answer any of my questions, and your attempt to dodge someone challenging your belief is evident. If I am wrong, then I have no issue with admitting so.

Jesus Is Lord.

jerryjohnson · May 31, 2010

Brother Mike said:
...

Mike you seem to know all the answers so why try to teach you anything. You need to check the spirit that rules your mind, it's the wrong one!

Brother Mike · May 31, 2010

JerryJohnson:

Mike you seem to know all the answers so why try to teach you anything. You need to check the spirit that rules your mind, it's the wrong one!

What spirit would that be? one that wants to learn?

If it is in the Word, then I need to know. What is wrong with that?

You mentioned about our first age life that may effect this life. Christina said that we as spirits where on earth during the first age.

So, If as a spirit and free, without the confines of a flesh body, gets pulled away somewhere for a time, then come back to endure a limited flesh body. That is down grading. It is also the belief of the Eastern doctrine called REINCARNATION.

If Christians are suppose to believe this, then I don't think it out of line for my questions to be answered.

thank you brother JerryJohnson.

Jesus Is Lord.

Brother Mike · Jun 1, 2010

Can someone please answer my questions concerning this reincarnation belief?

What spirit would that be? one that wants to learn?

If it is in the Word, then I need to know. What is wrong with that?

You mentioned about our first age life that may effect this life. Christina said that we as spirits where on earth during the first age.

So, If as a spirit and free, without the confines of a flesh body, gets pulled away somewhere for a time, then come back to endure a limited flesh body. That is down grading. It is also the belief of the Eastern doctrine called REINCARNATION.

This is important to me since Reincarnation goes against everything I have believed true in the Word of God, Yet we are told that Reincarnation is mentioned.

We were spirits on earth, left somewhere and come back as spirits hindered by flesh bodies.

This is much like Eastern Doctrines of people coming back as lesser things, or different people depending on what version you listen to.

If this is something I need to believe. I need to know.

Where is it mentioned that (Human) spirits were on earth before Adam.

How did We escape Judgment that came upon the Angels, and were given a second chance. Reincarnation belief.

God said let us make man in our image. God is a Spirit, so the first man spirit appeared before the Earth was laid waste. I want scripture that shows man created without body and placed on earth.

Thank you.

Jesus Is Lord.

jerryjohnson · Jun 1, 2010

Brother Mike said:
Can someone please answer my questions concerning this reincarnation belief?
….
God said let us make man in our image. God is a Spirit, so the first man spirit appeared before the Earth was laid waste. I want scripture that shows man created without body and placed on earth.
…

Mike, you have the Scripture, but you can not see the deeper Truths. I will try this again but you will still not understand it. “God said let us make man in our image. God is a Spirit,” “OUR” is plural, not singular. There were flesh animals, dinosaurs, etc, in the first earth age. Flesh man was not created yet but we were with God in spiritual bodies. We were, and still are, the Children of God. It is part of the meaning of the name אלהים, 'ĕlôhı̂ym, The “OUR” part.

Flesh man was created in Genesis 1, as humanity, male AND female. In Genesis 2, God “FORMED” a particular MAN to till the ground, and He created Farm animals. This is the eighth day formation of ‘eth-‘Ha’adham, not the sixth day ‘adam.

Again, this has nothing to do with reincarnation. Reincarnation is false. Nothing is reincarnated.

Judgment is not all bad. All are judged, one in the first earth age received condemnation, some received justification, all but the one condemned, were required to come through the flesh in this earth age. Look at the words “born again” in John 3:3.

Brother Mike · Jun 1, 2010

Ok.....................

We where here in spirit....... then in Gen 1 man was given a flesh body.

in the first earth age there was judgement. Judgement is just that, it can be judged as good or judged as bad.

So, those judged good in the first earth age, were given a second chance so to speak and put in flesh bodies.

(No matter how we dress it up JerryJohnson, that by all definition is reincarnation.)

In John 3:3 when Nicodemus asked about Miracles, and that no man can do that exepecpt God be with them. So, Jesus said in response to the Miracle question, one must be born again to enter the Kindom of God.

Now, the Kingdom of God (in my understanding) starts with the Sower sows the Word. The word produces faith, and God will comfirm His word with signs following. (You can not operate under the Power of the Anointing and faith without being born again. My understanding)

This was the Lord's response to the Miracle question.

You say that born again means What? coming back into a flesh body?

Am I clear on this concept or did I misunderstand somewhere.

Jesus Is Lord.

jerryjohnson · Jun 1, 2010

Brother Mike said:
...
You say that born again means What? coming back into a flesh body?

Am I clear on this concept or did I misunderstand somewhere.

Jesus Is Lord.

Yes, you misunderstood just like I said you would. "coming back into a flesh body" is were you are in error, re-read my post. Did I say we were in flesh bodies? NO! I said we were in spiritual bodies. We were then Children of God. In this age we spend 70 +/- years in flesh bodies, we are born "from above" that is what "again" means. While we are waiting to come through the flesh we, our souls/spirits, are with the Father in heaven (Children of God). We do not have wings. We are a part of this earth age to be tested, individually, to see if we will love and follow God the Father or if we will follow Satan, the condemned one. When we die, our souls/spirits return to the Father, some on the good side of the "gulf" some on the bad side, dependent on our choice of Fathers. (This is all from Scripture.)

Once again, you will likely not understand this.

I've got to go to work. I will be in and out but will not be able to post much more until later today.

whirlwind · Jun 1, 2010

Brother Mike said:
Ok.....................

We where here in spirit....... then in Gen 1 man was given a flesh body.

in the first earth age there was judgement. Judgement is just that, it can be judged as good or judged as bad.

So, those judged good in the first earth age, were given a second chance so to speak and put in flesh bodies.

(No matter how we dress it up JerryJohnson, that by all definition is reincarnation.)

In John 3:3 when Nicodemus asked about Miracles, and that no man can do that exepecpt God be with them. So, Jesus said in response to the Miracle question, one must be born again to enter the Kindom of God.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

This is not about reincarnation as I think of it. There one dies and comes back as someone...or something...else. Men are "appointed once to die" so there is no coming back and back and back until perfection is reached. We are the same soul we were in the previous age, that we are now, and will be in the following age. Same soul. The only difference in the ages is that we are presently in flesh. In the first age we were in spirit just as we will be when we die our appointed one time. As Christians we know we will be in spirit bodies when this age ends. Is it so odd to understand we were in spirit before this age?

So, in reply to your quote of being "born again," it is actually "born from above," not born again. We are not born again but have always been. We must come to earth in this age, be "born from above," to be proven.

Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

That is the purpose of this age...that is why we are all going through this battle for souls.

Now, the Kingdom of God (in my understanding) starts with the Sower sows the Word. The word produces faith, and God will comfirm His word with signs following. (You can not operate under the Power of the Anointing and faith without being born again. My understanding)

This was the Lord's response to the Miracle question.

You say that born again means What? coming back into a flesh body?

Am I clear on this concept or did I misunderstand somewhere.

Jesus Is Lord.

I believe you are misunderstanding....

John 3:5-6,8 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

A man must be born into flesh, "of water," which is what happens during our physical birth. The bag of waters surround us until it is time. Then, a man must be born "of the Spirit." Both are necessary to be in His kingdom. The fallen angels were not born of woman, "of water," but circumvented the physical process and came straight to earth and wreaked havoc. So, first we must go through this flesh life to be proven and to be of His kingdom we must be filled with His Spirit.

Brother Mike · Jun 1, 2010

Ok............. Thank you everyone.

so born again is not in a sense of our spirit being recreated. It is a sense of being placed on earth. Water being from the Womb, and denotes that we have a flesh body.

We sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Then, a man must be born "of the Spirit." Both are necessary to be in His kingdom

So, unlike the angels, we have a right to Earth born on this earth, and we have a spirit. both parts are needed to enter in the Kingdom of God............ am I getting this?

So, the New birth is not a recreated Spirit, we already have a spirit that is created of God, but must be born again in flesh, that we may enter the Kingdom of God. this is the second earth age to prove or be tested, that we see jesus as Lord and accecpt that.

We were just spirits (We are spirits) in the earth in the first Earth age.

This is sill the definition of reincarnation, but it is what it is................

JerryJohnson:

Once again, you will likely not understand this.

If you would just explain it clear...................... I will understand, where is your faith?

Whirlwind or Jerryjohnson do you see anyplace that I am not understanding here.

Thank you for you time an effort, for once I get a explination that I can follow from Brother Jerryjohnson.....Now if I need more insight, fill me in.

jerryjohnson · Jun 1, 2010

Brother Mike said:
...

So, the New birth is not a recreated Spirit, we already have a spirit that is created of God, but must be born again in flesh, that we may enter the Kingdom of God. this is the second earth age to prove or be tested, that we see jesus as Lord and accecpt that.

We were just spirits (We are spirits) in the earth in the first Earth age.

This is sill the definition of reincarnation, ...

What is your definition of reincarnation? Mine: Reincarnation is believed to occur when the soul or spirit, after the death of the body, comes back to Earth in a newborn body. This does not happen, never ever. One time only in flesh bodies, ONE TIME!

Who are the Children of God, Mike? In all three Heaven and earth ages. What are angels, Mike?

Back to work!

whirlwind · Jun 1, 2010

Brother Mike said:
Ok............. Thank you everyone.

so born again is not in a sense of our spirit being recreated. It is a sense of being placed on earth. Water being from the Womb, and denotes that we have a flesh body.

We sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

So, unlike the angels, we have a right to Earth born on this earth, and we have a spirit. both parts are needed to enter in the Kingdom of God............ am I getting this?

Yes, you're "getting this."

But, we all have spirits...some good some evil. To be of the kingdom we must have His Spirit.

So, the New birth is not a recreated Spirit, we already have a spirit that is created of God, but must be born again in flesh, that we may enter the Kingdom of God. this is the second earth age to prove or be tested, that we see jesus as Lord and accecpt that.

We were just spirits (We are spirits) in the earth in the first Earth age.

I have heard it explained that our spirit is the intellect of our soul. Our soul being the body that houses our spirit. I agree with that. That package of soul/spirit is the same entity we have always been and will always be if we are immortal or will cease to be if we walk the plank. :huh: For this reason we find understanding of why some are elect and some are not. He is "no respecter of persons" so the elect aren't chosen randomly because they're pretty, smart, witty or whatever. It is because they are those "He did foreknow" in the previous age. They stood with Him at Satan's rebellion and stand with Him now.

Romans 8:29-30 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

This is sill the definition of reincarnation, but it is what it is................

JerryJohnson:

If you would just explain it clear...................... I will understand, where is your faith?

Whirlwind or Jerryjohnson do you see anyplace that I am not understanding here.

Thank you for you time an effort, for once I get a explination that I can follow from Brother Jerryjohnson.....Now if I need more insight, fill me in.

:lol: I thought "reincarnation" too when I first thought about it but....it isn't. Give it some time. It has some characteristics but also vital differences. Most false religions have aspects of the truth. After all, they're led by the great deceiver, the one that takes truth and then gives it a twist. <_<

Brother Mike · Jun 1, 2010

Who are the Children of God, Mike? In all three Heaven and earth ages. What are angels, Mike?

Angles are spirits.....sons of god......??

3 earth ages?? I am trying to focus on just this one.............

Walk in Wisdome here JerryJohnson. you know the Idea of the first earth Age is a way out concept to most Christians, I just happened to see it on my own years ago, when I found the Earth to be laid to waste in Hebrew. That is the only thing that got me thinking on the topic....... I also saw that Peter said they are willfully ignorant that the Earth standing in water and out of water. Now, no Jew was Ignorant about the flood of Noah, So I knew Peter was talking about another flood, and Judgement.

So, this concept of man on earth, then man comes back as flesh, is something I have not heard, and I am sure those of you (In the Know) presume that the rest of us should have gotten it long ago. Not the case here, at least for me.

Now correct me if I am wrong.................

God creates us, God is spirit, we are spirit. We where on the earth during the first Earth Age. There could have been buildings, could have been anything, even dinosaurs. Satan feaks out, and Judgement. Being the Children of God, we were not condemned with as some of the Angels.

Next we get born again, but this time in flesh bodies. The is what Jesus Meant as being born again, of water and spirit. Only those born agin in flesh, and spirit can enter into the Kingdom of God. Angels can not, as they are missing that flesh body.

The traditional sense of Born again is misunderstood. A new recreated spirit in man. Only someone with a new spirit (Born again) can enter into the Kingdom of God. That concept is wrong..............

Our spirits are not changed, but put on earth in the Flesh, and hence born again. Blood and water agree..........

am I missing something............................ from the whole OP, this is the part I am hung up on.

Jesus is Lord.

jerryjohnson · Jun 1, 2010

Brother Mike said:
Angles are spirits.....sons of god......??

3 earth ages?? I am trying to focus on just this one.............

Walk in Wisdome here JerryJohnson. you know the Idea of the first earth Age is a way out concept to most Christians, I just happened to see it on my own years ago, when I found the Earth to be laid to waste in Hebrew. That is the only thing that got me thinking on the topic....... I also saw that Peter said they are willfully ignorant that the Earth standing in water and out of water. Now, no Jew was Ignorant about the flood of Noah, So I knew Peter was talking about another flood, and Judgement.

So, this concept of man on earth, then man comes back as flesh, is something I have not heard, and I am sure those of you (In the Know) presume that the rest of us should have gotten it long ago. Not the case here, at least for me.

Now correct me if I am wrong.................

God creates us, God is spirit, we are spirit. We where on the earth during the first Earth Age. There could have been buildings, could have been anything, even dinosaurs. Satan feaks out, and Judgement. Being the Children of God, we were not condemned with as some of the Angels.

Next we get born again, but this time in flesh bodies. The is what Jesus Meant as being born again, of water and spirit. Only those born agin in flesh, and spirit can enter into the Kingdom of God. Angels can not, as they are missing that flesh body.

The traditional sense of Born again is misunderstood. A new recreated spirit in man. Only someone with a new spirit (Born again) can enter into the Kingdom of God. That concept is wrong..............

Our spirits are not changed, but put on earth in the Flesh, and hence born again. Blood and water agree..........

am I missing something............................ from the whole OP, this is the part I am hung up on.

Jesus is Lord.

I'm not ready to give up on you yet Mike, we are plowing deep, but I am at work. I have a major paper due tomorrow for my second Master's degree and must concentrate on that now. Just remember what we have talked about. Whirlwind and I are in agreement. Look at my last question to you.

Three Heaven ages/three earth ages. First are seen in Genesis 1:1, second in Genesis 1:2, third is after the Millennium. We are the Children (sons) of God in all three. Do not confuse this with The Son of God, Christ.

whirlwind · Jun 1, 2010

Brother Mike said:
Angles are spirits.....sons of god......??

Yes, we are sons of God....we are also angels...we just haven't left our flesh bodies behind yet.

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1 John 3:1-2 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew Him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.

3 earth ages?? I am trying to focus on just this one.............

Walk in Wisdome here JerryJohnson. you know the Idea of the first earth Age is a way out concept to most Christians, I just happened to see it on my own years ago, when I found the Earth to be laid to waste in Hebrew. That is the only thing that got me thinking on the topic....... I also saw that Peter said they are willfully ignorant that the Earth standing in water and out of water. Now, no Jew was Ignorant about the flood of Noah, So I knew Peter was talking about another flood, and Judgement.

So, this concept of man on earth, then man comes back as flesh, is something I have not heard, and I am sure those of you (In the Know) presume that the rest of us should have gotten it long ago. Not the case here, at least for me.

Now correct me if I am wrong.................

God creates us, God is spirit, we are spirit. We where on the earth during the first Earth Age. There could have been buildings, could have been anything, even dinosaurs. Satan feaks out, and Judgement. Being the Children of God, we were not condemned with as some of the Angels.

The first age....

Jeremiah 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.

The judgment of the angels wasn't in the first age. This age proves all of us.

Next we get born again, but this time in flesh bodies. The is what Jesus Meant as being born again, of water and spirit. Only those born agin in flesh, and spirit can enter into the Kingdom of God. Angels can not, as they are missing that flesh body.

The traditional sense of Born again is misunderstood. A new recreated spirit in man. Only someone with a new spirit (Born again) can enter into the Kingdom of God. That concept is wrong..............

Having His Spirit indwell us is creating a new man so the idea most have of being born again , which properly translated is "born from above," isn't in opposition to this. We must be born from above and must be born of His Spirit.

Our spirits are not changed, but put on earth in the Flesh, and hence born again. Blood and water agree..........

am I missing something............................ from the whole OP, this is the part I am hung up on.

Jesus is Lord.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Being put on earth in the flesh is being born from above. Being born of His Spirit is entering His kingdom.

Brother Mike · Jun 1, 2010

So we are angels.............. got it.

we are not "Recreated spirits" but born from above. .......... correct?

The judgment of the angels wasn't in the first age. This age proves all of us.

umm. I had thought that something major got messed up in the first earth age...............but no judgement at that time?

am I missing anything else......... this is completly new on how I was looking at the scriptures.

Be blessed and sorry if I seem dense......

Jesus Is Lord.

First Earth Age.

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