Paul didn't write Hebrews
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There are strong indications that it might indeed have been Paul. It just doesn't say so explicitly in the text itself.
I have to log off ,,,,
but what do you mean?
Not EVERY LETTER that was written went into the N.T.
Only certain letters made it into the N.T.
THOSE letters were chosen by the Early Church Fathers....
Those are canon...
Who do YOU think put the N.T. together?
Tomorrow...
Nothing in Scripture later gained the status of being the Word of God that it didn't have before. Otherwise the church is supposedly exercising some kind of infallibility over and above that of Scripture.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
Marks says >>"There is an underlaying assumption here that all men receive life in the same method that the first man received his life."
Adam was formed from dirt, and God breathed into his nostrils, and that dirt form came alive, became a living being."
"An unborn baby is not a dirt formation, it's a moving, eating, reacting, responding creature which is thinking, forming memories, exhibiting personality, and individuality."
Okay Marks, When did God change His plan? Scriptural reference?
The dirt routine was still going full speed ahead in Job's day:
“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay."
“The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33
God forms man from a pile of dust (the womb). It has no life on it's own, it is created merely as a body to contain and convey the spirit of man.
When the fetus is fully formed, God gives man his spirit, WHEN when He breathes into man's nostrils the breath of life, and he becomes a living being. And when he dies man's body returns to the dust from whence it came; And the spirit returns to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7
The body is merely a temporary pile of dust, crafted to convey the spirit of man. Not only is the body created from dust, but it is sustained by dust. Everything we eat comes from dirt!
Looking forward to hearing your revelation as the when God stopped making man from dirt.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
Philip said "Once upon a time it was 'legal' to sacrifice children to Molech too..."
How silly! Murdering children was never sanctioned by God's law!!
Philip said "Men 'legalizing' murder does not change it from still being murder."
For sure! Murder is a crime against both man's and God's law. And your point being?
When did a woman being 'with child' morph into being 'with fetus'? When people wanted to justify murdering their children.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
GodsGrace>>Is he not human because he may or may not be breathing?
IF HE DOES NOT BREATH....He is still a human being...
one that HAS DIED...not one that never lived - because in the womb his heart was beating and there was life because there was movement.
I have no personal opinion on this, but Job did. Do you think I should discard Job as a heretic, and rip those pages from my Bibles?
“The Spirit of God has made me,
And the BREATH of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33:44
"For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27
A fetus does not become a living being unitil God breathes it's nostrils, the breath of life, and having nostrils would seem to be a prerequisite for that to happen.
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Stan B
Well-Known Member
GodsGrace >>Hey "As a Christian person that represents the word of God,
it would behoove you and those that come into contact with
you to study this and come to understand the word of God.
THOU SHALT NOT KILL."
If you are using an ancient version of the Bible that says "THOU SHALT NOT KILL.", maybe it is time for you to get a version that has corrected errors contained in an outdate 5 century old version.
Notwithstanding, I am most receptive to hearing what Scripture has to say about abortion. Let's start off with the simple stuff, like where in Scripture does it say "Thou shalt not have an abortion". I can't find it in my Bible. Can you find it in yours?
Stan B
Well-Known Member
Your speculative hypothesis does not work for me. When did Paul ever call Timothy a "brother"?
In his first letter he addresses "Timothy, my true child "
And in his second letter he addresses "Timothy, my beloved son."
No 'brother' stuff in there.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
GodsGrace >>"Was Hebrews written in Greek ORIGINALLY or was it written with a Greek style?
I can't remember and Stan B brought this up."[/QUOTE]
Don't look at me! I wasn't there, so I have no personal knowledge of the authorship. but I have a lot of scholars who share the same opinion. While interesting, ultimately, the language in which it was written is makes little difference. If the Holy Spirit thought it was important, I am sure He would have provided that information to us.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
I suppose John the baptist wasn't a 'living being' when he leaped for joy in Elizabeth's womb either?
You are ABSOLUTELY wrong about this.
America and its cesspool of death is doomed unless it repents, humbles itself and begs for God's mercy.
But it will not repent... Come out of her my people!
Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!
Stan B
Well-Known Member
GodsGrace>>"But was Calvin led by the Holy Spirit?
He penned a lot of stuff that this theology goes by.
His writings are referred to more than the bible,,,although this is
starting to change."
John was a fetus at the time, and if you check out normal pregnancy, fetuses jump around in the womb about 30 times per hour, and in this instance, all the shouting and exuberance in meeting Mary was enough to shock her fetus into reacting. It must have been an awesome noisy reunion, after Mary, a 13 year old girl had traveled 70 km in the desert on foot to meet Elizabeth!
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
What language was New Testament written in?
How many Greek manuscripts of the New Testament are there?
Answer: 5,800
Parts of the New Testament have been preserved in more manuscripts than any other ancient work. There are over 5,800 complete or fragmented Greek manuscripts.
Every year, several New Testament manuscripts handwritten in the original Greek format are discovered. The latest substantial find was in 2008, when 47 new manuscripts were discovered in Albania at least 17 of them unknown to Western scholars.
Of the known 5,800+ Greek New Testament manuscripts, there are more than 2.6 million pages! That equates to one mile of New Testament manuscripts (and 2.5 miles for the entire Bible), compared with an average four feet of manuscript by the average classical writer. Combining both the Old and New Testament, we have more than 66,000 manuscripts and scrolls!
The earliest manuscript of a New Testament text is a business-card-sized fragment from the Gospel of John, Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which may be as early as the first half of the 2nd century.
How many Greek manuscripts of the New Testament are there?
Answer: 5,800
Parts of the New Testament have been preserved in more manuscripts than any other ancient work. There are over 5,800 complete or fragmented Greek manuscripts.
Every year, several New Testament manuscripts handwritten in the original Greek format are discovered. The latest substantial find was in 2008, when 47 new manuscripts were discovered in Albania at least 17 of them unknown to Western scholars.
Of the known 5,800+ Greek New Testament manuscripts, there are more than 2.6 million pages! That equates to one mile of New Testament manuscripts (and 2.5 miles for the entire Bible), compared with an average four feet of manuscript by the average classical writer. Combining both the Old and New Testament, we have more than 66,000 manuscripts and scrolls!
The earliest manuscript of a New Testament text is a business-card-sized fragment from the Gospel of John, Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which may be as early as the first half of the 2nd century.
Deborah_
Well-Known Member
It was originally written in Greek. There is a word-play in chapter 9 (the word translated covenant/will/testament) that is central to the writer's argument and only works in Greek.
On the authorship of Hebrews: If it was important for us to know, the author's name would have been included.
Paul always signed his letters, so the absence of his name could be significant.
Timothy worked with a lot of other people in the early church, not just Paul.
The best suggestion that I've come across was that it was written by Apollos. We know that he was highly knowledgable about the Old Testament, and that he was a very eloquent speaker (and Hebrews is very eloquent). Also, he knew Timothy well!
But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.
Sure sounds like it, doesn't it?
What do you think is the deal with Paul fobbing off his being taught directly from Jesus as if he'd only heard it from others?
Much love!
My understanding has been that the canon of the New Testament was generally accepted well before the council, but it needed to be clarified because many others wanted to get their choices in.
Yes? No?
These assertions always seem to arise from Job and Ecclesiastes. No, we're clearly still made from dirt, but not the same process.
Since we're talking about interpretations of Poetic genre Scripture, I'd like to ask you this.
After babies are born, and before they breathe, are they dirt? Or are they flesh? If you look inside a womb at a growing baby, do you see dirt, or do you see flesh?
much love!
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I never thought about that but you're right, I'm sure!
I've read that passage so many times, and it's bugged me, something I knew I was seeing but couldn't put my finger on, and yeah!
Way cool!
Much love!
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