Adoption 3

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Enoch111

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call yourself a child of God that sins.
Only those who are children of God call themselves children of God. Saints can and do sin, but remain saints by the grace of God, and the finished work of Christ. But that does not mean that they are free to do as they please They have been bought with a price, and therefore they are not their own.

But this has nothing to do with adoption. Biblical adoption is not the same as human adoption. In human adoption parents who are unrelated by blood adopt children and make them a part of their family. But children of God are children of God through the New Birth -- born of God.

Therefore adoption goes beyond being children of God (which in itself is tremendous). It means that the children of God have all the rights and privileges of adult heirs of God. They have received a position which they did not earn or deserve -- heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. God has reserved an eternal inheritance for them in Heaven, and their citizenship is in Heaven. But along with privileges come responsibilities, and there will be eternal responsibilities. Christians will not be floating on clouds and strumming harps, or just lazing around.
 

Nancy

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Romans 8:23,

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

You grow from suffering, why? Because suffering teaches you obedience. Jesus learned obedience from suffering why would we to be any different. Do you know how suffering lets up, you learn obedience. I'm sure there are other ways to learn but suffering will bring obedience. Have you ever been around those that have suffered and the humility they have and humbleness, you can feel it.

When I was in prison ministry I was impressed by this, it was my first experience in seeing how suffering had it's effects on us. Obedience may still be coming with some but they were well on there way. You need to know something about the prison system and it's effects on inmates before you judge the whole lot. We are quick to say throw the key away, but we don't know What the father is doing.

Alot of what we call God's judgement is nothing more than suffering that is built into creation, such as; a storm brewing or an earthquake or some tradgic event. They are all part of creation, does God use such events in the lives of people, sure he does. But he does not cause them, not since the cross, he uses the schoolhouse now, the world as a teacher.

The difference between the world and the believer when they suffer; the believer has the shed blood of Jesus and is a bonified offspring of God the father. The world does not have the blood and the suffering will continue. Why suffering in the world, to bring the non-believer to Christ. Why does a believer suffer, to teach them obedience. If you look at the prodigal son passage you will see it starts out with a certain man having two son's, Luke 15:11-12,

11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living

Now the real word's here you should fix your mind on are "two son's and the younger of them." Real word's because there we're two son's, not a saint and sinner as supposed by some. "The younger of them" because there is something in the father to where he always chooses the younger. Think of the choosing of others like Joseph or the son of Jesse are some that come to mind. The youngest and least expected in a large family. Mary, I dont know where she was in her family line but look at her age.

The podical just thought he was living it up, but in reality the father had a plan.

Good post @soul man , as usual...gets the gray matter a movin!
As far as Christians suffering... I see that we are to "share" in His sufferings: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory"(Romans 8:17)
And then, I look at what @GodsGrace posted: Romans 8:28
This is where I can see the difference between how the world suffers and how a Christian is to gracefully accept suffering as, we know He will work all things to the good..."
 

marks

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i used to believe this, but i have come to believe that Christians are actually in the worse shape of all, and the most deceived. ...even the elect, if it were possible
few there are who find it

So then, just asking, not saying anything here, why exactly do you call yourself Christian?
 

VictoryinJesus

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You didn't answer me.
Do YOU want your children to SUFFER?

So if God loves us MORE than you love your children...
why would He want us to suffer?

Hebrews was written to Jews that WERE suffering and the writer was trying to give them some kind of comfort.

I don't need to suffer to be obedient.

I was obedient to my parents without having to suffer first.
I was obedient to my husband without having to suffer first.
and I was obedient to God without having to suffer first.

And I don't think I'm the first.
Most persons who love God will obey Him whether they suffer or not.

Next time you have a tummy ache,,,don't take anything for it.
The suffering will teach you to be obedient.

Are you offended? He said one must pick up their cross and follow Him. I didn’t say it...He said it. You are obedient in all those things...then you are doing well!

Absolutely not...I don’t want my children to suffer. and I also don’t believe the Father enjoys watching the suffering of His children but rather He is long-suffering with them...to do whatever it takes to deliver them from evil and the bondage of death. His ways are sure higher than mine, for sure. So no...I don’t want my children to suffer but I trust them in His hands more than my own.


“A broken and contrite heart”...
 

marks

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I know a parent who want's their child to suffer.

Actually, this happens on a daily basis, parents pay strangers to use razor sharp knives to cut up their children, sometimes actually cutting away parts of their bodies! Surgeons of course.

Sometimes restoration involves pain.

It's still much love!
 
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Helen

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I know a parent who want's their child to suffer.

Actually, this happens on a daily basis, parents pay strangers to use razor sharp knives to cut up their children, sometimes actually cutting away parts of their bodies! Surgeons of course.

Sometimes restoration involves pain.

It's still much love!

Haha!! You almost had me there. True , good post. :)

When my mum used to comb my hair as a child ...and checking it for creepy crawler ...(which did often happened just after the war ) I'd cry because I had long hair and it got tangles in it...
Shed always say... " Now you don't want to have fleas in your hair do you, I must be cruel to be kind. " :)
 
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amadeus

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@soul man @"ByGrace" @GodsGrace @Nancy @marks @Enoch111 @bbyrd009 @VictoryinJesus
and any others, just to remember and consider with regard to suffering...


I don't want my children to suffer either, unless it is necessary for them to be what they need to be with God. What did Job do that his suffering was necessary?

What have we done that any one should or would persecute us and make us suffer? Certainly worse in every case than anything that Jesus did:

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

If we are not persecuted, should we be?
 

GodsGrace

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@soul man @"ByGrace" @GodsGrace @Nancy @marks @Enoch111 @bbyrd009 @VictoryinJesus
and any others, just to remember and consider with regard to suffering...


I don't want my children to suffer either, unless it is necessary for them to be what they need to be with God. What did Job do that his suffering was necessary?

What have we done that any one should or would persecute us and make us suffer? Certainly worse in every case than anything that Jesus did:

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

If we are not persecuted, should we be?
We are being persecuted...as we speak.
 

marks

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@soul man @"ByGrace" @GodsGrace @Nancy @marks @Enoch111 @bbyrd009 @VictoryinJesus
and any others, just to remember and consider with regard to suffering...


I don't want my children to suffer either, unless it is necessary for them to be what they need to be with God. What did Job do that his suffering was necessary?

What have we done that any one should or would persecute us and make us suffer? Certainly worse in every case than anything that Jesus did:

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

If we are not persecuted, should we be?

Paul wrote to Timothy that even wanting to live godly will mean that we'll be persecuted.

So . . . if we're not being persecuted, it bears asking, why not?

Much love!
 

GodsGrace

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But should we not be slow to point out our accusers and just accept the perhaps undeserved thrown stones as Stephen did and quietly not respond like Jesus?
What do you mean A?
I'm talking about Christians being killed all over the globe.

I think an army should go into these countries and stop this slaughter of men, women and
children.

I wish I could be Queen for a day.
 
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amadeus

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What do you mean A?
I'm talking about Christians being killed all over the globe.

I think an army should go into these countries and stop this slaughter of men, women and
children.

I wish I could be Queen for a day.
Which army should that be? Even the best stories of the Christian Crusades are not good stories. Would the Italian army do it right? Would the U.S. Army do it right? What is right? I spent 3 years in the US Army including time in both Viet Nam and in the Dominican Republic supposedly to help people but according to what I saw and have read they did not help who they should have helped.

It would have to be an army of Christians led by Jesus. Do we understand what that means? The argument when gathering our forces would be, who are the Christians? Some would exclude the Catholics. Some would exclude the JWs. Some would exclude the Mormons. Some would exclude the Pentecostals. Some would exclude all tongue talkers. And so forth. And then the question would arise, where is Jesus?

In any case I was speaking about the me of each one of us. Yes, when we can and where can we should help other believers, but when the persecution hits me, remember what Jesus did and what Stephen did? They died. God may not ask us to do that, but some of us should not be surprised if He does ask that of us. We need to have the right answer when He does. Will we recognize His voice?
 
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GodsGrace

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Which army should that be? Even the best stories of the Christian Crusades are not good stories. Would the Italian army do it right? Would the U.S. Army do it right? What is right? I spent 3 years in the US Army including time in both Viet Nam and in the Dominican Republic supposedly to help people but according to what I saw and have read they did not help who they should have helped.

It would have to be an army of Christians led by Jesus. Do we understand what that means? The argument when gathering our forces would be, who are the Christians? Some would exclude the Catholics. Some would exclude the JWs. Some would exclude the Mormons. Some would exclude the Pentecostals. Some would exclude all tongue talkers. And so forth. And then the question would arise, where is Jesus?

In any case I was speaking about the me of each one of us. Yes, when we can and where can we should help other believers, but when the persecution hits me, remember what Jesus did and what Stephen did? They died. God may not ask us to do that, but some of should not be surprised if He does ask that of us. We need to have the right answer when He does. Will we recognize His voice?

Two comments...
As I'm sure you know, we will not really know how we react to any given situation until we are actually placed in that situation.

As to the army...how about the U.N. forces? How about Nato?
ANYONE would do to stop the slaughter.
If my home were next on the list of families to slaughter,
YES...I would pray that ANYONE would come to our aide.

I think it's disgraceful that this is allowed to go on.
 

amadeus

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Two comments...
As I'm sure you know, we will not really know how we react to any given situation until we are actually placed in that situation.

As to the army...how about the U.N. forces? How about Nato?
I do hear you, but who can we trust to do it right according to what God would say right is? Unfortunately there is selfishness and politics involved wherever we might look for help among men. The UN or NATO might do it, but I would be surprised to see them send troops into any country with the primary purpose being to save persecuted Christians. I really would like to be surprised.

ANYONE would do to stop the slaughter.
If my home were next on the list of families to slaughter,
YES...I would pray that ANYONE would come to our aide.

I think it's disgraceful that this is allowed to go on.
The disgrace is applicable to anyone who claims to care about freedom and the right of people to live even in a measure according to their own beliefs and does nothing at all. The worst disgrace probably would apply to those who say they are on the Lord's side but do not always even try to seek 1st things 1st. Too many would rather argue with someone else about what should be 1st while others are suffering and dying. We cannot all be soldiers but every one of us can spend more time talking to God asking for His advice and help... He is the One we can always trust.
 
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GodsGrace

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I do hear you, but who can we trust to do it right according to what God would say right is? Unfortunately there is selfishness and politics involved wherever we might look for help among men. The UN or NATO might do it, but I would be surprised to see them send troops into any country with the primary purpose being to save persecuted Christians. I really would like to be surprised.


The disgrace is applicable to anyone who claims to care about freedom and the right of people to live even in a measure according to their own beliefs and does nothing at all. The worst disgrace probably would apply to those who say they are on the Lord's side but do not always even try to seek 1st things 1st. Too many would rather argue with someone else about what should be 1st while others are suffering and dying. We cannot all be soldiers but every one of us can spend more time talking to God asking for His advice and help... He is the One we can always trust.
Yes, I agree that there is no financial purpose to send troops and so they won't be arriving.
This makes me feel very helpless.

Persecution | Christian News Network
 

farouk

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Yes, I agree that there is no financial purpose to send troops and so they won't be arriving.
This makes me feel very helpless.

Persecution | Christian News Network
There can be difficulty in linking one country's foreign and military policy with items of news which happen to get a lot of publicity. For the believer, I think the point is that the Lord knows and sympathizes and strengthens His people under affliction; plenty of verses to show this, like in the Psalms, etc.
 
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