Spiritual versus Religious

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aspen

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Hi Ron,
Have you seen the movie about C.S.. Shadowland? With Anthony Hopkins playing C.S.? Deborah Winger is in it too.
And, then there is "The Letters", which IMHO is the best adaptation of Mother Theresa...

Yes. Shadowlands came out in theaters when I was taking a class on CS
Lewis - we went to see it as a class

I will look up The Letters
 

ScottA

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Hey Scott,

I think I'm getting a handle on how you see these things!

My wife and I have discussed the same sort of time abstraction, as we consider the rapture, and those who die before, that regardless, we all arrive at the same moment, I hesitate to say "time".

And so then at the end of this world's history, as it were, then what happens? Is there a time when God calls everyone home, and this world stops existing?

Much love!
If we understand that this world is the manifestation of what occurred in a timeless God ("in the twinkling of an eye"--His eye); then yes, this finite world only exists for [a time] and then is no more. But to fully understand, we must consider that it was all comparable to what we would call "all in our mind", and that is all that makes it real. If we were to consider the same thing in our own mind...we would not even consider it "real." But God is God, and so if He spoke it or determined it so--it is real indeed. And yet, both science and God have described the world of time to be an illusion. As it is written, it is all a "created" "image." Which in the mind of man is not real, but in the mind of God is real.

The same is true of the scriptures: with men they are words in stone or on paper, that only become real in God. All of which makes time and the scriptures a form of Godly media. The fact that He can speak things into reality only speaks of Him, and not of any actual reality of time, space, and matter. Things that are only real in God, are not real otherwise. It is God that is real. Period. Thus, atheists are kidding are simply under the illusion of their perceived reality actually being real, like being convinced that a dream is real.

The good news is, what we have to look forward to is the reality only known to God.
 
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marks

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If we understand that this world is the manifestation of what occurred in a timeless God ("in the twinkling of an eye"--His eye); then yes, this finite world only exists for [a time] and then is no more. But to fully understand, we must consider that it was all comparable to what we would call "all in our mind", and that is all that makes it real. If we were to consider the same thing in our own mind...we would not even consider it "real." But God is God, and so if He spoke it or determined it so--it is real indeed. And yet, both science and God have described the world of time to be an illusion. As it is written, it is all a "created" "image." Which in the mind of man is not real, but in the mind of God is real.

The same is true of the scriptures: with men they are words in stone or on paper, that only become real in God. All of which makes time and the scriptures a form of Godly media. The fact that He can speak things into reality only speaks of Him, and not of any actual reality of time, space, and matter. Things that are only real in God, are not real otherwise. It is God that is real. Period. Thus, atheists are kidding are simply under the illusion of their perceived reality actually being real, like being convinced that a dream is real.

The good news is, what we have to look forward to the reality only know to God.

Having read this several times now, the one thing I want to clarify . . . you are beginning to see there is always something with me . . .

" . . . and not of any actual reality of time, space, and matter. Things that are only real in God, are not real otherwise. It is God that is real. Period."

To my thinking God creates a reality, and that reality exists, and is something that is "not God", though, perhaps this may fit both of our ideas, it could be thought of as a projection by God, something like a hologram, that exists in its own right, but the moment God stops making it exist it will cease to be.

Very interesting thoughts and explanation! Very well put, imho.

But while I think of the end of the age being with great tribulation, and plagues and wrath, and the landing of Jesus on the earth to rule the earth from Jerusalem, the millennium, then the final battle, you see these as representative of the lives we live, the story of humanity, like that?

Much love!
 

ScottA

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Having read this several times now, the one thing I want to clarify . . . you are beginning to see there is always something with me . . .

" . . . and not of any actual reality of time, space, and matter. Things that are only real in God, are not real otherwise. It is God that is real. Period."

To my thinking God creates a reality, and that reality exists, and is something that is "not God", though, perhaps this may fit both of our ideas, it could be thought of as a projection by God, something like a hologram, that exists in its own right, but the moment God stops making it exist it will cease to be.

Very interesting thoughts and explanation! Very well put, imho.

But while I think of the end of the age being with great tribulation, and plagues and wrath, and the landing of Jesus on the earth to rule the earth from Jerusalem, the millennium, then the final battle, you see these as representative of the lives we live, the story of humanity, like that?

Much love!
What you are describing is a "created" "reality", but He calls it all a "created" "image." If you are correct, you have caught God in a lie. But No, that is not the case. It is only an "image."

As for the end, no, that is not what is written of the end of the age. Those are the thoughts of men prone to think within the sphere of time. But these are events rooted in the timelessness of God, that are only drawn out in the telling. But just as the Beginning and the End are one man, all of time exist within the times of that one man: "This generation" all shall come to pass...and has. Thus, each of those things you listed can be named to have happened in that one generation, and also in all of history. But the mistake that is made by men...is that it is not chronological. No, all exists around the apex of Christ. Those who believed in the promise of His coming rightly looked forward in time. But we do not look forward to the greatest event in the history of the world...we look back. Thus, Jesus said, the end shall come "as the days of Noah", meaning the end is as the beginning, with the finale in the middle ("the middle of the seven"). When the hour had come (His hour), the glass was turned to run the other way.

But not to worry, the worst that happens during these times, instead of a foreshadowing coming to fulfillment, many will say "see here, Christ must surely be coming again soon" and point to post shadows (reflections) of things that were fulfilled in Christ (during that generation). And so it is written, "Look behind you, O Benjamin!"
 
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historyb

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Religion is the structure and how the Word is taught as well as what is taught. Spiritual is the intimate connection between God and people through the Word of God. Both are important. Spiritual is felt through the Spirit and feeds the spirit. Religion is what feeds the soul. Spiritual connections are much harder to find I believe, so once you find them and they help you grow more intimately with God, hang on to them!!!!

For me they are the same. I know the big thing is for people to say "I'm not Religious but Christian" which is silly because Christianity is a Religion. I love my Religion
 
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historyb

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It’s very obvious that religion doesn’t unify, it divides. You need look no further than this forum.
The Spirit of God unifies his body.

Actually Christ said he came to bring a sword not unite.

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the world. No, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matt 10:34

It's not Religion that has done this but man who rejected Church and made their own ideas up like some Evangelicals
 

Waiting on him

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Actually Christ said he came to bring a sword not unite.

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the world. No, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matt 10:34

It's not Religion that has done this but man who rejected Church and made their own ideas up like some Evangelicals
It’s not quite that simple Bob

John 16:33 KJV
[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


Tecarta Bible
Revelation 21:7 KJV
[7] He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


Tecarta Bible
 

marks

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What you are describing is a "created" "reality", but He calls it all a "created" "image." If you are correct, you have caught God in a lie. But No, that is not the case. It is only an "image."

As for the end, no, that is not what is written of the end of the age. Those are the thoughts of men prone to think within the sphere of time. But these are events rooted in the timelessness of God, that are only drawn out in the telling. But just as the Beginning and the End are one man, all of time exist within the times of that one man: "This generation" all shall come to pass...and has. Thus, each of those things you listed can be named to have happened in that one generation, and also in all of history. But the mistake that is made by men...is that it is not chronological. No, all exists around the apex of Christ. Those who believed in the promise of His coming rightly looked forward in time. But we do not look forward to the greatest event in the history of the world...we look back. Thus, Jesus said, the end shall come "as the days of Noah", meaning the end is as the beginning, with the finale in the middle ("the middle of the seven"). When the hour had come (His hour), the glass was turned to run the other way.

But not to worry, the worst that happens during these times, instead of a foreshadowing coming to fulfillment, many will say "see here, Christ must surely be coming again soon" and point to post shadows (reflections) of things that were fulfilled in Christ (during that generation). And so it is written, "Look behind you, O Benjamin!"
Thank you Scott!

I'd like to mull this all over for a bit. Thank you for going into all this!

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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It's not Religion that has done this but man who rejected Church and made their own ideas up like some Evangelicals
Looks like the Catholic Church made up its own ideas and then refused to acknowledge its errors.
 
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historyb

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Looks like the Catholic Church made up its own ideas and then refused to acknowledge its errors.

Don't know since I am not Catholic I do know Evangelicalism is of men. Christ created on Church not 10,000 plus unless you all think Christ was skioprahic (sp) and set up 10,000 plus
 

Enoch111

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Don't know since I am not Catholic I do know Evangelicalism is of men. Christ created on Church not 10,000 plus unless you all think Christ was skioprahic (sp) and set up 10,000 plus
The one Church that Christ created remains the one Church -- the Body of Christ. It is visible only to God and Christ.

BTW there are no more that about 30 denominations -- not 10,000 or 300,000. And within almost all will be found the true Church of God, even while there are many unscriptural things within those denominations (including all the Catholic groups). The RCC claims that it is the one true Church, but the evidence disclaims that.
 

aspen

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The one Church that Christ created remains the one Church -- the Body of Christ. It is visible only to God and Christ.

BTW there are no more that about 30 denominations -- not 10,000 or 300,000. And within almost all will be found the true Church of God, even while there are many unscriptural things within those denominations (including all the Catholic groups). The RCC claims that it is the one true Church, but the evidence disclaims that.

Where is that in the Bible? That Christ’s Body is only visible by God? I thought we were supposed to be a light on a hill?
 

marks

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Where is that in the Bible? That Christ’s Body is only visible by God? I thought we were supposed to be a light on a hill?
1 John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Maybe this?
 
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amadeus

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Where is that in the Bible? That Christ’s Body is only visible by God? I thought we were supposed to be a light on a hill?
Indeed and while with Paul we may see only through a glass darkly [dimly] the whole vision, the face to face is coming. How clear is our vision? How clear can it and will it be? Can people see our Light?

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house." Matt 5:14-16
 
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aspen

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1 John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Maybe this?

Not quite - knowing and visibility are different
 
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Enoch111

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Where is that in the Bible? That Christ’s Body is only visible by God?
1 CORINTHIANS 12 (Christ's Body capitalized below)

PHYSICAL BODY (VISIBLE)
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ...
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?


SPIRITUAL & METAPHORICAL BODY (INVISIBLE)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit...
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the Body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where
were the Body?
20 But now
are they many members, yet but one Body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the Body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those
members of the Body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely
parts have no need: but God hath tempered the Body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
25 That there should be no schism in the Body; but
that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the Body of Christ, and members in particular.

[NOTE: Christians are spiritually members of the Body of Christ]
I thought we were supposed to be a light on a hill?
Correct. So those who are *lights* (metaphorical) demonstrate themselves to be *members* (metaphorical).