gadar perets
Well-Known Member
I consider Tertullian to be the father of the trinity doctrine. It did not exist in Yeshua's day or in the days of the twelve apostles. That last paragraph you quoted proves how deceived the man was.
The Problem With The Trinity
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The Trinity doctrine is clearly portrayed in one of Jesus' last statements before He ascended into heaven...
Mat 28:19, Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
This is indisputably a verse in Matthew 28. I have presented this Scripture several times, but it makes absolutely no impact on the naysayers. It just goes to show that wilful blindness does blind people to the truth.
DoveSpirit05
Active Member
it say's he refers to "two gods" doesn't say he's 2 gods, He says that (all things of the Father belong also to the Son),
including his (names), such as (Almighty God), Most High, Lord of Hosts, or King of
Israel, so the (title) God belongs 2 son also not 2 mean dat he's actually the God head.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
Why do you care what Tertullian said? You should care what the Bible says. Nowhere in Scripture is the Son called "Almighty God, Most High, Lord of Hosts".
The title "God" belongs to the Father alone (monotheism). The Son is called an "elohim" and a "theos", but only in the sense that other men are as well, ie; Psalm 82:6.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
The "Trinity doctrine" states the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons comprising the one God and that all three are co-equal and co-eternal. Matthew 28:19 teaches none of that. Trinitarians read all of that into the text. Sad indeed. If it is a genuine text, then it simply mentions three things that exist. Not one person in Scripture baptised anyone with such a formula. Every NT example shows baptism in the name of the Son alone. Also, "name" (singular) can refer to authority as opposed to a literal name such as "Yahweh" or "Yeshua". The Holy Spirit has no "name".
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Tecarta Bible
Revelation 1:17-18 KJV
[17] And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: [18] I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Tecarta Bible
Revelation 22:13 KJV
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Tecarta Bible
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Revelation 1:8 KJV
[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Tecarta Bible
Revelation 1:17-18 KJV
[17] And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: [18] I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Tecarta Bible
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5). The Father is that Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). No one can say that Jesus is rthe Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3). Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).
The Holy Ghost teaches us when we compare spiritual thing with spiritual.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
This is Yeshua speaking. He has the same title as his Father YHWH (the first and the last). Shared titles do not mean the two are the same person.
This verse usually appears in red letters because the translators thought Yeshua was speaking. However, notice the context including verse 12.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
We know Yeshua is coming, however, YHWH is coming as well.
Isaiah 40:10 Behold, Adonai YHWH will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him: behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him.
They are both coming in a sense. Yeshua will come as YHWH's representative. When he comes, it will be as though YHWH (Yeshua's Father and "God") will come as well. YHWH will literally come later to dwell in New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:1-5).
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
Think with me. Would you say that the Father is YHWH?
Well, it is written in Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, that the Father (YHWH) is the Lord (not just "the LORD").
The Bible teaches us that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6). That Lord is the Father according to the verses above.
But no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3).
This indicates that if I cannot confess that Jesus is the Father, I do not have the Holy Ghost.
Because the Father is the one Lord of scripture (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21)...
and it is also clear from holy scripture that Jesus is that one Lord (1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6).
I say to you verily that Jesus is the one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6), the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).
Without convoluting it with scripture, let me put it this way:
There is one Lord, even the Father. And we can only proclaim that Jesus is the Lord through the power of the Holy Ghost. Therefore if anyone has the Holy Ghost, they will proclaim that Jesus is the Father.
Scriptures: Ephesians 4:5, Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6.
Well, it is written in Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, that the Father (YHWH) is the Lord (not just "the LORD").
The Bible teaches us that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6). That Lord is the Father according to the verses above.
But no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3).
This indicates that if I cannot confess that Jesus is the Father, I do not have the Holy Ghost.
Because the Father is the one Lord of scripture (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21)...
and it is also clear from holy scripture that Jesus is that one Lord (1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6).
I say to you verily that Jesus is the one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6), the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).
Without convoluting it with scripture, let me put it this way:
There is one Lord, even the Father. And we can only proclaim that Jesus is the Lord through the power of the Holy Ghost. Therefore if anyone has the Holy Ghost, they will proclaim that Jesus is the Father.
Scriptures: Ephesians 4:5, Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6.
DoveSpirit05
Active Member
Hes an early church father man and i'm ansering ur argument by explaining what it says he teaches, as I said b4 hes referring 2 him does titles not calling him God, if u look at jewish cultural history theres say certain titles in jewish culture which jewish people relate 2 which affirm a certain position.
Like the "good shepard" and masiah, jewish people know these as titles of the "Lord and saviour" dats not 2 say their calling him the God head.
1 Timothy 3:16 16 By common confession, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory. so it wouldn't be irrational 2 refer 2 him as say God in the flesh dats a title, so for the last time
"He says that all things of the Father (belong) also to the Son,
including his """"""names"""""" (not calling him God) such as Almighty God, Most High, Lord of Hosts, or King of
Israel. God is not a king of Israel because a king has 2 be appointed, God has always been ruler over Israel and always will be....
DoveSpirit05
Active Member
Now if u wanna argue about the titles or names dat turtil.... has used are wrong I can agree wiv some of dat!!
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
I cannot think with you because your thinking is wrong. Actually, anyone who proclaims the Son is really the Father is either so sadly deceived that he rejects the leading of the Holy Spirit as it teaches the Son IS NOT the Father or he does not have the Holy Spirit at all. The Father did NOT beget Himself, or talk to Himself in prayer, or appoint Himself Lord and Messiah, or serve Himself, or worship Himself as God, or give Himself all things that He already owned as an inheritance to Himself, or ...
The reference to "one Lord" is referring to one Lord that the Father appointed to be Lord;
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God has made that same Yeshua, whom you have crucified, both Lord and Messiah.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
Yes, they share certain titles that do not make Yeshua God like "good shepherd", but to say Yeshua holds the title "Almighty God" definitely makes Yeshua God. There are NO titles or actions that make Yeshua "God" with a capital "G". He is the Son of the "only true God" (John 17:3).
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