Philippians 2:12

marks · Aug 31, 2019

justbyfaith said:
I will add that a holy walk/the doing of good works is the result of a living faith in Jesus Christ...we cannot accomplish it apart from faith.

Some try...but will find themselves singing the song, "What's going on inside of me? I despise my own behaviour...this only serves to confirm my suspicion, that I'm still a man in need of a Saviour."

If we put our trust in our works to save us, I believe that the Lord will graciously not allow us to live the perfect life that is required of those who put their trust in their works to save them (see Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48)....so that we can convert from trusting in our works to save us unto trusting in the finished work of Christ: as His blood was shed as the propitiation for our sins. He paid the penalty of our wrongdoing on the Cross. If we are thus forgiven, and receive the Holy Spirit as the result...then yes, we will live a different life than before. We will walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh...because we are new creatures in Christ...the old has gone; behold, all things are become new! (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).

This reminds me of Job, where God says if Job can abase ALL the proud and haughty people, the God would admit Job's own hand could save him, something like that. Ch 40, I think.

Much love!

justbyfaith · Aug 31, 2019

marks said:
This reminds me of Job, where God says if Job can abase ALL the proud and haughty people, the God would admit Job's own hand could save him, something like that. Ch 40, I think.

Much love!

Interesting...

Ernest T. Bass · Aug 31, 2019

farouk said:
Wrong, Sir; Philippians 1.6 would indicate otherwise. And Romans 8.38-39. And John 10.28-29.

None of those verses say it is impossible for a Christian to become an apostate.

Again, an apostate, one who falls is one who's position has changed and none of the verse you cite does away with apostasism

Ernest T. Bass · Aug 31, 2019

justbyfaith said:
But certainly, we are saved by faith apart from works:

Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

We are saved entirely by an obedient faith; and most assuredly, it is the faith that saves and not the obedience that is attached to it.

Not necessarily. A person can have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith, mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel...and such a faith may indeed not be a living and saving faith. Therefore a person can go from being in the faith to being apostate...and yet never have been saved.

Christ was obedient to God and men are to imitate Christ, do as Christ did therefore not being obedient is un-Christ like.

None of the verses you cite eliminate obedience to God but eliminate works of merit, flawless works required by the OT law to be justified. Romans 6:16-18 clearly require obedience and obedience to God's will earns nothing but a necessary requirement God has placed upon His free gift of grace.

If one does not have a 'saving faith' then he has not been saved therefore his position has not changed, he was fallen and remains fallen. An apostate is one who's position has changed, one who has gone from saved to fallen...a position change

Ernest T. Bass · Aug 31, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Why do so many denominations throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to works. According to James "works" is not the dirty word some denominations make it out to be. What Paul was talking about were outward works of the flesh such as physical circumcision, eating only clean meat, or keeping the Sabbath or feasts. Nothing outward will justify us and make us better than someone else. However, if our faith is true we will walk in the Spirit. That is us cooperating with the Spirit. The Spirit doesn't lead us into sin, so not sinning is not a work Paul or any other apostle is talking about. If we walk in the Spirit we will not sin. We just won't have any desire to. It is not work, but pleasure.

James 2:21 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works,..." Why kind of works? "... when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"

The kind of works James speaks about are obedient works in doing the will of God. James is not talking about works of merit or works of the flesh or flawless works required by the OT Law of Moses but obedience to God. Therefore all works are not alike therefore cannot all be lumped together.

I see the problem being that there are those that will not see the difference between:
- works done to earn some thing
and
- meeting the conditions placed upon a free gift

Abraham's justification was not earned by his obedience in offering Isaac but offering Isaac was a necessary condition placed upon God's free gift of justification.

Waiting on him · Aug 31, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
James 2:21 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works,..." Why kind of works? "... when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"

The kind of works James speaks about are obedient works in doing the will of God. James is not talking about works of merit or works of the flesh or flawless works required by the OT Law of Moses but obedience to God. Therefore all works are not alike therefore cannot all be lumped together.

I see the problem being that there are those that will not see the difference between:
- works done to earn some thing
and
- meeting the conditions placed upon a free gift

Abraham's justification was not earned by his obedience in offering Isaac but offering Isaac was a necessary condition placed upon God's free gift of justification.

Hmmmmm, a gift with conditions. Kinda like my paycheck?

CharismaticLady · Aug 31, 2019

justbyfaith said:
"What's going on inside of me? I despise my own behaviour...this only serves to confirm my suspicion, that I'm still a man in need of a Saviour."

I wonder why they never let the Savior in? Jesus said it best - they prefer the darkness.

Ernest T. Bass · Aug 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
Hmmmmm, a gift with conditions. Kinda like my paycheck?

No, one earns a paycheck.

Noah did not earn the saving of his house but God conditionally required Noah to build the ark so his house would be saved.
Would you agree with me that the saving of Noah's house was by grace? If so, then the obedient work Noah did in building the ark could not, did not earn the saving of his house but a condition GOD put upon HIS free gift of grace.

CharismaticLady · Aug 31, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
James 2:21 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works,..." Why kind of works? "... when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?"

The kind of works James speaks about are obedient works in doing the will of God. James is not talking about works of merit or works of the flesh or flawless works required by the OT Law of Moses but obedience to God. Therefore all works are not alike therefore cannot all be lumped together.

I see the problem being that there are those that will not see the difference between:
- works done to earn some thing
and
- meeting the conditions placed upon a free gift

Abraham's justification was not earned by his obedience in offering Isaac but offering Isaac was a necessary condition placed upon God's free gift of justification.

I see it as trying to be good when you are dragging around a sin nature that wants to do bad vs. being freed of the sin nature, given a divine nature, then doing what comes naturally.

CharismaticLady · Aug 31, 2019

justbyfaith said:
I will add that a holy walk/the doing of good works is the result of a living faith in Jesus Christ...we cannot accomplish it apart from faith.

Some try...but will find themselves singing the song, "What's going on inside of me? I despise my own behaviour...this only serves to confirm my suspicion, that I'm still a man in need of a Saviour."

If we put our trust in our works to save us, I believe that the Lord will graciously not allow us to live the perfect life that is required of those who put their trust in their works to save them (see Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48)....so that we can convert from trusting in our works to save us unto trusting in the finished work of Christ: as His blood was shed as the propitiation for our sins. He paid the penalty of our wrongdoing on the Cross. If we are thus forgiven, and receive the Holy Spirit as the result...then yes, we will live a different life than before. We will walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh...because we are new creatures in Christ...the old has gone; behold, all things are become new! (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).

Yes, living the new life with a new nature is easy and a pleasure.

By the way, was that a real song that people sing in some churches, or something you made up? It horrified me if it was real.

Waiting on him · Aug 31, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
No, one earns a paycheck.

Noah did not earn the saving of his house but God conditionally required Noah to build the ark so his house would be saved.
Would you agree with me that the saving of Noah's house was by grace? If so, then the obedient work Noah did in building the ark could not, did not earn the saving of his house but a condition GOD put upon HIS free gift of grace.

Ok, kids it’s Christmas time; time to open the gifts, but hold up first you have to labor for them?

marks · Aug 31, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
No, one earns a paycheck.

Noah did not earn the saving of his house but God conditionally required Noah to build the ark so his house would be saved.
Would you agree with me that the saving of Noah's house was by grace? If so, then the obedient work Noah did in building the ark could not, did not earn the saving of his house but a condition GOD put upon HIS free gift of grace.

Didn't you just say that the saving of Noah and his family was by the ark he had to build?

God told Noah that God would save him, and told Noah how it would be done.

Now, we're not the ones building our ark, Jesus is our ark, and He did all the building.

Much love!

marks · Aug 31, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
None of those verses say it is impossible for a Christian to become an apostate.

Again, an apostate, one who falls is one who's position has changed and none of the verse you cite does away with apostasism

It's impossible for a spirit child of God to be "unborn" from God. Can you become "unborn" from your father and mother?

Either you are their child or you are not. Either you are His child or you are not.

Much love!

Ernest T. Bass · Aug 31, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
I see it as trying to be good when you are dragging around a sin nature that wants to do bad vs. being freed of the sin nature, given a divine nature, then doing what comes naturally.

No one is born with a sin nature, men are born with equal ability to do what is well or not well, Genesis 4:7.

But the remaining issue is those who have allowed them selves to believe in Luther's faith only-ism will not see the difference between obedience to Gods will that does not earn God's grace and works of merit.

Ernest T. Bass · Aug 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
Ok, kids it’s Christmas time; time to open the gifts, but hold up first you have to labor for them?

You work to open a present, to open a box does not mean you earned the present. Your work in opening the present though was just a necessary condition.

marks · Aug 31, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Yes, living the new life with a new nature is easy and a pleasure.

And all one need to do is believe. God really does do all the work of producing righteousness in us.

By the way, was that a real song that people sing in some churches, or something you made up? It horrified me if it was real.

Way too many songs are written as though we aren't born again. That's the main reason I stopped listening to "christian radio", that is, commercial radio targeting a Christian market.

People are told over and over in their songs, I'm a sinner, I can't do it, One day . . .

It's amazing the renewing of the mind that can take place when one stops listening to those voices, and only takes in Scripture, and pure doctrine.

Much love!

Ernest T. Bass · Aug 31, 2019

marks said:
Didn't you just say that the saving of Noah and his family was by the ark he had to build?

God told Noah that God would save him, and told Noah how it would be done.

Now, we're not the ones building our ark, Jesus is our ark, and He did all the building.

Much love!

Had Noah not built the ark as commanded by God he would not have received God's grace (saving of his house).

God's grace hath appeared to all men (Titus 2:11) but all men will not receive that grace for man must conditionally obey God to receive it.

My point in bring up Noah and Hebrews 11:7 is to show that obedience does NOT earn God's grace. Therefore obedience is not a work of merit. Which means the necessary obedience to Christ NT in doing the obedient works of believing, repenting, confessing, submitting to baptism and living faithful unto death do not earn God's grace either

Waiting on him · Aug 31, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
Had Noah not built the ark as commanded by God he would not have received God's grace (saving of his house).

God's grace hath appeared to all men (Titus 2:11) but all men will not receive that grace for man must conditionally obey God to receive it.

My point in bring up Noah and Hebrews 11:7 is to show that obedience does NOT earn God's grace. Therefore obedience is not a work of merit. Which means the necessary obedience to Christ NT in doing the obedient works of believing, repenting, confessing, submitting to baptism and living faithful unto death do not earn God's grace either

You didn’t read psalm 19?

Ernest T. Bass · Aug 31, 2019

marks said:
It's impossible for a spirit child of God to be "unborn" from God. Can you become "unborn" from your father and mother?

Either you are their child or you are not. Either you are His child or you are not.

Much love!

One can become spiritually unborn.

Physically one father does not change but spiritually one father can/does change. Before one becomes a Christian the devil is their father yet upon becoming a Christian God is now their father. If one quits obeying God the devil will become his father again.

Ernest T. Bass · Aug 31, 2019

Waiting on him said:
You didn’t read psalm 19?

There is nothing in Psalms 19 that changes the fact that obedience to the will of God does NOT earn God's grace.

Philippians 2:12

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads