Philippians 2:12
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Nevertheless, if anyone is seeking to be saved through what they are doing unto the Lord, they are subject to every law, Old Testament and New. Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48.
And sin is still defined as the transgression of the law. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-20 that not one jot or tittle shall in any wise pass away from the law till heaven and earth pass away. That if we obey the least of the commandments in the OT, and teach men to do so, we will be called great in the kingdom. But that if we disobey the least of these commandments, and teach men so, we will be called least.
Therefore even the least of every law in the OT is still valid as a testimony bringing the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20).
I've been thinking about this.
Isn't a faith of mere mental consent a dead faith?
If it doesn't save, isn't it a dead faith?
As to nominal, lukewarn or shallow....
Didn't Jesus say the faith of a mustard seed is enough?
Do I have to have a certain amount of faith to be saved?
I was thinking of the verse where it states that to each is given a measure of faith...but its context is not for the above.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Lets look some of God's commands:
Genesis 2:
9 And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food.
Genesis 9:
3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
Leviticus 11:
Now the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying, ‘These are the animals which you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth: 3 Among the animals, whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves and chewing the cud—that you may eat. 4 Nevertheless these you shall not eat among those that chew the cud or those that have cloven hooves: the camel, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 5 the rock hyrax, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 6 the hare, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; 7 and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. 8 Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. They are unclean to you.
9 ‘These you may eat of all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers—that you may eat. 10 But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you. 11 They shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. 12 Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales—that shall be an abomination to you.
13 ‘And these you shall regard as an abomination among the birds; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, the vulture, the buzzard, 14 the kite, and the falcon after its kind; 15 every raven after its kind, 16 the ostrich, the short-eared owl, the sea gull, and the hawk after its kind; 17 the little owl, the fisher owl, and the screech owl; 18 the white owl, the jackdaw, and the carrion vulture; 19 the stork, the heron after its kind, the hoopoe, and the bat.
20 ‘All flying insects that creep on all fours shall be an abomination to you. 21 Yet these you may eat of every flying insect that creeps on all fours: those which have jointed legs above their feet with which to leap on the earth. 22 These you may eat: the locust after its kind, the destroying locust after its kind, the cricket after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind. 23 But all other flying insects which have four feet shall be an abomination to you.
1 Timothy 4:
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Are we to keep all these directives of God?
We are saved by grace, not through law-keeping...and therefore we are not required to keep the OT food requirements as long as we are under grace and not under the law.
But it is also true that if anyone wishes to be called great in the kingdom, they should obey the OT food requirements.
Paul taught us to obey the OT food requirements, not because we would lose our salvation if we didn't, but in order to preserve the faith of, and to not be a stumbling block to, any brothers or sisters present who might be weaker in faith...whose conscience would condemn them if they violated food laws.
Therefore, Paul makes love the motivation for obeying food laws. Even as he made clear in Romans 13:8-10 and Galatians 5:14, that love is the fulfilling of the law.
Therefore, we obey food laws out of love for the weaker brother; but if we didn't, there would be no condemnation for us either; because we are not under the law but under grace...we are dead to the law...we are delivered from the law. I believe these things are clear to you if you have read the holy scriptures for any length of time.
But it is also true that if anyone wishes to be called great in the kingdom, they should obey the OT food requirements.
Paul taught us to obey the OT food requirements, not because we would lose our salvation if we didn't, but in order to preserve the faith of, and to not be a stumbling block to, any brothers or sisters present who might be weaker in faith...whose conscience would condemn them if they violated food laws.
Therefore, Paul makes love the motivation for obeying food laws. Even as he made clear in Romans 13:8-10 and Galatians 5:14, that love is the fulfilling of the law.
Therefore, we obey food laws out of love for the weaker brother; but if we didn't, there would be no condemnation for us either; because we are not under the law but under grace...we are dead to the law...we are delivered from the law. I believe these things are clear to you if you have read the holy scriptures for any length of time.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
You have already claimed that sin is transgression of the law. Now you say we can sin as long as we are under grace.
Paul said,
Romans 6:
Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
What does grace mean to you? Does it mean God overlooks the sins we commit?
Where there is no law there is no transgression (Romans 4:15); and sin is not imputed where there is no law (Romans 5:13). And also, we are not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14)...we are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19)...we are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).
So then, if we are under grace, the law does not apply. It does not any longer point us out as sinners. We cannot sin; because we cannot transgress the law.
Does this mean that we are lawless? No; for the law is written on our hearts and in our minds under the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16). Love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14) and is also shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5).
Therefore we are no longer bound to the letter; but our tendency is to be obedient to the spirit of the law.
The spirit of the law is love.
But the letter of the law no longer has the power to condemn us from the outside because we are forgiven of all of our sin(s).
We obey the law because of love, even though we would not be condemned if we were entirely disobedient (hypothetically).
Of course, if we were entirely disobedient, it would be a sign that we are not born again; and if that be the case, we are also not forgiven: and therefore we would still be under the law (and not under grace).
But if we have been regenerated and renewed, there is no condemnation in the case that we were to mess up because of human weakness.
So then, if we are under grace, the law does not apply. It does not any longer point us out as sinners. We cannot sin; because we cannot transgress the law.
Does this mean that we are lawless? No; for the law is written on our hearts and in our minds under the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16). Love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14) and is also shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5).
Therefore we are no longer bound to the letter; but our tendency is to be obedient to the spirit of the law.
The spirit of the law is love.
But the letter of the law no longer has the power to condemn us from the outside because we are forgiven of all of our sin(s).
We obey the law because of love, even though we would not be condemned if we were entirely disobedient (hypothetically).
Of course, if we were entirely disobedient, it would be a sign that we are not born again; and if that be the case, we are also not forgiven: and therefore we would still be under the law (and not under grace).
But if we have been regenerated and renewed, there is no condemnation in the case that we were to mess up because of human weakness.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Again, what do you believe is the meaning of GRACE. Does is mean God overlooks the sins we commit, because we are not under the law? Without the true meaning of grace, we will overlook the meaning of not being under the law.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
You said it, not I...
the Lord only sees the blood of Jesus when He looks at us, is what this is saying...
Of course, He is also able to cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7). This is what I would term as a second benefit (2 Corinthians 1:15).
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
No, Jesus wasn't around in the Old Testament and what you quoted was a quote from the Old Testament.
There is a difference between what the blood of bulls and goats accomplished - "covered" - and what the blood of Jesus does. What does the blood of Jesus do - cover?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Wow, I went back and saw this! Which one - complete vegetarianism; eat everything that moves including rats; only eat meats that could be sacrificed to God? I can see why you scampered off somewhere. You have a lot you don't understand, especially what took the place of keeping the law, and its not your version of grace covering the sins you commit.
I hope you come back. There is so much more I could teach you. I know you are probably thinking, what a pompous thing to say, but you haven't even broken the surface of the truth. I am a teacher, and would love to open up the meaning of the Scripture to you the same way the Holy Spirit opened them up to me when I gave up denominationalism and asked Him to teach me the meaning of His Word. And He did. I just want to share what I learned.
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It was from the New Testament...specifically Romans.
Yep.
I didn't "scamper off somewhere." But when there are no immediate responses, I don't hover around my computer waiting for people to respond either. I go and do other business required by my daily life; and also spend time in the word while I am waiting for a response.
I'm sorry, but your moniker is "Charismatic Lady"...
And, call me an MCP if you wish; but I hold that 1 Timothy 2:11-15 is inspired of the Lord.
I am interested in what you think took the place of keeping the law, since you fancy yourself a teacher and it is expedient for me to know what it is that you teach from your "pulpit".
It is also true that the Lord has given me great understanding in the things of Him; even to the point that it is necessary for me to have a thorn in my flesh to keep me from being exalted above measure.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Paul, who wrote Romans, was quoting the Old Testament.
The blood of Jesus does more than just cover as it rots underneath, it takes it completely away.
That was Paul's instruction to Timothy, but not a command from the Lord.
You have sooooooooooooo much to learn, but are being closed minded.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Since Adam sinned, we have all inherited the sin nature from Satan, as he was the first to sin. God gave the Jews His laws but did not do anything about the sin nature, so they had a struggle to keep the law when their flesh wanted to sin.
The New Covenant is not based on law, but on Jesus' Spirit. Those who have repented of their sin nature and want to be completely free from sin, Jesus gives His Holy Spirit to empower them. This is called being born again of the Spirit. Romans 7 shows a person who knows the law but is encumbered by the sin nature, so it is Law vs. sin nature. It is contrasted by Romans 8 which is Spirit plus divine nature that, instead of laws engraved on stone, is now part of the born again of the Spirit divine nature. With the Spirit we are no longer in the old carnal nature called the flesh, but in the Spirit. Only those who have the Spirit belong to Christ. Instead of the law of sin and death, we have been freed from sin and keep the law of the Spirit of life in Christ.
Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
As I said, the blood of Jesus does more than merely cover up our sin, it takes it away.
Hebrews 10:
For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Jesus frees us from sin.
John 8:34-36: (We have gone from sinner to children of God)
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
1 John 3:1-9
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. (No where does it say the blood of Jesus merely covers our sin.)
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
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