Philippians 2:12

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justbyfaith

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Are we going to be judging angels in the millennial period?

Or, are we going to judge both men and angels as the 24 elders at the judgment seat of Christ; as well as at the GWT judgment?

The 24 elders come out of ever tongue, tribe, people, and nation; and there are more than 24 nations in the world. Therefore the number 24 is symbolic; and I believe that scripture teaches that the 24 elders will have a part in the final judgment.

Just so it's clearer, allow me to quote the passage in view.

1Co 6:1, Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2, Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3, Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
 
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Davy

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Just the opposite. If you don't sin, you don't need to repent. There is no license to sin except for those who don't know that Jesus takes away our sin - freeing us FROM sin, not freeing us TO sin.

I'd definitely be afraid to stand before our Lord Jesus with that attitude. Reason is, because it means you believe you can't sin anymore while in this flesh when you will do exactly that, even when trying your best not to! And it means cutting off a walk with Jesus. That means killing the relationship with Him, for He taught us in praying to ask forgiveness of our sins, and for those who sin against us, and taking Communion with Him is about examining ourselves while communing with Him.

Now if you still take Communion, and still say the prayer He taught us in Luke 11, then you still are... admitting you still sin and need His help. If not, then you are showing Him that you no longer need Him in your life.

Matt 25:11-12
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, "Lord, Lord, open to us."
12 But he answered and said, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not."
KJV
 

Davy

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Are we going to be judging angels in the millennial period?

Or, are we going to judge both men and angels as the 24 elders at the judgment seat of Christ; as well as at the GWT judgment?

The 24 elders come out of ever tongue, tribe, people, and nation; and there are more than 24 nations in the world. Therefore the number 24 is symbolic; and I believe that scripture teaches that the 24 elders will have a part in the final judgment.

Just so it's clearer, allow me to quote the passage in view.

1Co 6:1, Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2, Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3, Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?


Yeah, you already quoted that Scripture once. It doesn't say where we judge them to. A judgement to perish by us is your addition to the Scripture.

Each soul must appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ. (Romans 14:10)

Rev 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

KJV
 

justbyfaith

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It doesn't say where we judge them to.
If it doesn't say, then it could go either way.

But personally, I don't think that we are going to be judging angels during the millennial reign; but rather at the end of time.

And I think that I may have only referenced that scripture before. Sometimes it helps to get a full look at it for everyone to see.
 

Davy

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If it doesn't say, then it could go either way.

But personally, I don't think that we are going to be judging angels during the millennial reign; but rather at the end of time.

We'll see. But I only see God doing the judging into the future "lake of fire", which means destruction of one's soul. And that's what the end of Rev.20 shows.

And I think that I may have only referenced that scripture before. Sometimes it helps to get a full look at it for everyone to see.

You referenced it in your post #95, and then quoted it in your post #221.
 

justbyfaith

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You referenced it in your post #95, and then quoted it in your post #221.
Of course, that is what I figured. Because if I had actually quoted it the first time, you wouldn't have responded as you did; because an actual quote of the scripture in question refutes your belief before you started.
 
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CharismaticLady

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I'd definitely be afraid to stand before our Lord Jesus with that attitude. Reason is, because it means you believe you can't sin anymore while in this flesh when you will do exactly that, even when trying your best not to! And it means cutting off a walk with Jesus. That means killing the relationship with Him, for He taught us in praying to ask forgiveness of our sins, and for those who sin against us, and taking Communion with Him is about examining ourselves while communing with Him.

Now if you still take Communion, and still say the prayer He taught us in Luke 11, then you still are... admitting you still sin and need His help. If not, then you are showing Him that you no longer need Him in your life.

Matt 25:11-12
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, "Lord, Lord, open to us."
12 But he answered and said, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not."
KJV

Hi Davy,

When we are born again of the Spirit, something miraculous happens. The sin nature is replaced with the divine nature of Jesus. Did Jesus sin? Do you see Him confessing His sins? No, He lived in complete obedience. That is what you misunderstand as to my beliefs. I know it is hard to fathom unless you are living it, and it does perfect from maturity in Jesus and abiding in Him. Instead of confessing sins I've committed, I walk in the Spirit and follow Him, not disobey Him. If someone is like what you describe, I would have to wonder if they have the Spirit to walk in. That being said, I do agree that we WILL commit trespasses, which are sin, but not sins unto death. It appears you believe all sin is the same. No. Trespasses are faults unwittingly (not with knowledge) we commit even while walking in the Spirit that we may not even be aware of and committed unintentionally, but as you see in 1 John 1:7 even as we commit them, they are being cleansed by the blood of Jesus, with one condition. And they will continue to be cleansed as long as we forgive others their slights against us that cause us pain. It is important that we reconcile ourselves to each other in love.
 

Davy

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Hi Davy,

When we are born again of the Spirit, something miraculous happens. The sin nature is replaced with the divine nature of Jesus. Did Jesus sin? Do you see Him confessing His sins? No, He lived in complete obedience. That is what you misunderstand as to my beliefs.

Sorry, but our Lord Jesus did not promise us that we would become our 'own' Christ. You still sin because of the flesh you live in, and you will continue to slip up until the day of His coming (Romans 7; 1 John 1). What you have succumbed to by such a belief is a philosophy of men, and not God's Holy Writ. It's like Apostle Paul said in Romans 7, those who have died have ceased from sin.

I know it is hard to fathom unless you are living it, and it does perfect from maturity in Jesus and abiding in Him. Instead of confessing sins I've committed, I walk in the Spirit and follow Him, not disobey Him.

The spirits have seduced you with your charismatic ideas. And you are blasphemous, because by your own words you are saying you walk perfectly by The Spirit, which Jesus well knows you don't, otherwise you wouldn't need Him anymore. You will have become your OWN CHRIST. And that FALSE idea is exactly what the OCCULT MYSTICS in your charismatic movements are wrongly teaching!
 

CharismaticLady

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Sorry, but our Lord Jesus did not promise us that we would become our 'own' Christ. You still sin because of the flesh you live in, and you will continue to slip up until the day of His coming (Romans 7; 1 John 1). What you have succumbed to by such a belief is a philosophy of men, and not God's Holy Writ. It's like Apostle Paul said in Romans 7, those who have died have ceased from sin.



The spirits have seduced you with your charismatic ideas. And you are blasphemous, because by your own words you are saying you walk perfectly by The Spirit, which Jesus well knows you don't, otherwise you wouldn't need Him anymore. You will have become your OWN CHRIST. And that FALSE idea is exactly what the OCCULT MYSTICS in your charismatic movements are wrongly teaching!

I am Charismatic, but don't belong to some Charismatic "movement." But you are very wrong in your beliefs about sin. Jesus was manifested to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. This is talking about sins of lawlessness, which are sins unto death. Christians do not commit sins unto death because of the seed of the Father residing in them. And if someone does not have that seed of the Father they do not belong to Christ and are damned.

BTW, Romans 7 is not about a Christian, so if you only relate to Romans 7, and not to Romans 8, you've got bigger problems than you know.
 
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justbyfaith

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Romans 7:14-25 is referring to babes in Christ; compare Romans 7:14 to 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

She has me on ignore. Someone might want to copy and paste.
 

Davy

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I am Charismatic, but don't belong to some Charismatic "movement." But you are very wrong in your beliefs about sin. Jesus was manifested to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin.

You keep on believing that you are Jesus like they try to tell you. And you ought to read Scripture instead of listening to those hirelings...


Rom 3:24-25
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

KJV


Apostle John said the following to believers on Christ Jesus...

1 John 1:7-10
7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
KJV

Those are all conditions with that "If". Like Apostle Paul taught in Galatians 5, IF... we walk by The Spirit, then we simply won't be doing anything against God's laws, because like John said in 1 John 3:4, "... sin is the transgression of the law."

But... IF... we instead walk by our flesh, then we will transgress God's laws, because we won't be walking in The Spirit. This is what happens when at times our flesh gets the best of us, and we slip up, and don't always do what The Spirit would desire.

And don't tell me someone who claims to have The Holy Spirit always lives a perfect Spirit-filled life like our Lord Jesus! That would be to tell another lie. Try Todd Bentley as an example. He's a Charismatic, did adultery against his wife, divorced her, and married another. And others in the Charismatic movement kept supporting his false ministry after that!

There was a girl at my work one time who was a believer on Christ, claimed to speak in tongues and said it was evidence of having The Holy Spirit. Yet after she divorced her husband she went on a wild dating-intercourse spree, and even admitted it. So don't tell me having The Holy Spirit means your flesh won't still test you to see who you will listen to!
 

justbyfaith

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Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

This is not to say (by the first half of the verse) that the girl you are speaking of is justified in her behaviour (although the Lord Jesus will be her judge); but rather to say that when we walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh, that the spirit of the law is fulfilled in us rather than the letter.

We are not required, for example, to wear tzitzit and tallit and tefilin.
 

Davy

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Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

This is not to say (by the first half of the verse) that the girl you are speaking of is justified in her behaviour (although the Lord Jesus will be her judge); but rather to say that when we walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh, that the spirit of the law is fulfilled in us rather than the letter.

We are not required, for example, to wear tzitzit and tallit and tefilin.


Again, you show your ignorance of Scripture (likely because of men's traditions). Our Lord Jesus did not nail all... of God's laws to His cross:

1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

KJV

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV


By the way, all that above Scripture is CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT. So much for your tzitzit and tallit and tefilin reference.
 

Davy

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....
BTW, Romans 7 is not about a Christian, so if you only relate to Romans 7, and not to Romans 8, you've got bigger problems than you know.

That requires special attention, because it is so... false!

Apostle Paul wrote the WHOLE BOOK OF ROMANS for The CHURCH, not just parts of it.'

Your saying that reveals exactly the kind of problem with your listening to spirits from those possessed hirelings I was pointing to.

Romans 7 is ESPECIALLY for the Christian. The whole Book is Christian Doctrine for Christ's Church! Romans and Galatians are FOUNDATION BOOKS of Christian Doctrine by Apostle Paul.
 

marks

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And they will continue to be cleansed as long as we forgive others their slights against us that cause us pain. It is important that we reconcile ourselves to each other in love.
Hi CL,

Do you mean to say that our forgiveness from God ceases should we not forgive another?

Much love!
 
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justbyfaith

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Again, you show your ignorance of Scripture (likely because of men's traditions). Our Lord Jesus did not nail all... of God's laws to His cross:

1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

KJV

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV


By the way, all that above Scripture is CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT. So much for your tzitzit and tallit and tefilin reference.

What of 1 John 3:4? The tzitzit and talllit and tefilin reference is valid; and it shows clearly that we cannot be bound to the letter but will be obedient to the spirit of the law as born again believers.

Also, have you never read:

Col 2:13, And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Apparently you are now going to seek to oppose meat every turn because I showed you (in the other thread) that in adhering to the NASB, and the NIV, (knowing what they say in Isaiah 14:12) you are even denying the Lord that bought you.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Since the Bible tells us to trust Jesus, and love each other, and these are our commandments, or let's say that you want to add in all the OT commandments, tell me,

How much obedience is required so that you will be saved?

What of the disobedience before now? The disobedience after now? What do you do having already failed?

Much love!

For one to be saved, the gospel says one must obey by believing (John 8:24) repenting (Luke 13:3) confessing (Matthew 10:32-33) submit to baptism (Mark 16:16) and live faithfully unto death (Revelation 2:10)

Paul shows in Roman 6:16 we each serve one of two masters, we serve either:
--sin unto death
or
--obedience unto righteousness

I serve obedience unto righteousness. Which do you serve?
 
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marks

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For one to be saved, the gospel says one must obey by believing (John 8:24) repenting (Luke 13:3) confessing (Matthew 10:32-33) submit to baptism (Mark 16:16) and live faithfully unto death (Revelation 2:10)

I have a question for you. Do you, at all times, love God, your God, with All of your heart, and All of your mind, and All of your strength?

If yes, that is good!

If not, what then of our faithfulness to death? Can you do that even for 1 hour? And have you done that faithfully in the past?

If salvation is by obedience, then this is what is to be obeyed first of all.

Much love!
 

Ernest T. Bass

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I have a question for you. Do you, at all times, love God, your God, with All of your heart, and All of your mind, and All of your strength?

If yes, that is good!

If not, what then of our faithfulness to death? Can you do that even for 1 hour? And have you done that faithfully in the past?

If salvation is by obedience, then this is what is to be obeyed first of all.

Much love!

No, for I am not perfectly sinless....."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48.

How can I be perfect if I sin? Does God require the impossible of me? John says God's commands are not grievous 1 John 5:3. But if God requires me to be sinless then God's commands would be grievous.

Yet there is a saying I have heard...what God requires, Christ provides. I cannot be perfectly sinless and perfectly obey God's commands in and of myself, yet Christ provides a way for me to be perfect before God though. For those who obey the gospel are baptized into Christ and are therefore "in Christ" (Galatians 3:27) Now being 'in Christ' I am clothed in Christ's perfect righteousness therefore God sees me, through Christ, as perfect as He requires of me. Again, I cannot keep all God's commands perfectly all the time, but Christ provides me a way to be continual perfect. As long as I remain faithful and walk in the light (1 John 1:7) Christ's blood cleanses away ALL my sins leaving me with no sin. My walk is not perfect but as long as I do not abandoned that walk altogether Christ's blood will continue wash away all sins and that continued washing leaves me without sin before God.

Therefore what I cannot do in and of myself, Christ provides a way. Therefore God's commands are not grievous, they can be obeyed with Christ as my help so all men are without excuse for not obeying God.
 
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marks

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No, for I am not perfectly sinless....."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48.

How can I be perfect if I sin? Does God require the impossible of me? John says God's commands are not grievous 1 John 5:3. But if God requires me to be sinless then God's commands would be grievous.

Thank you for your straightfoward reply. You may be surprised at how certain people dodge and evade that question! It just makes sure we're on the same playing field.

But let me ask a follow-up question.

If faithfulness until death is what is required, then aren't you already by your own admission disqualified?

Much love!

I realize I'm confused at what you've written . . . faithfulness as in "trusting Jesus", or faithfulness as in "obedience unto righteousness", that is, faithful obedience to the end?