Judaizers! They Live!!!! They walk among us!!!

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justbyfaith

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posts #1-#4...

HolyBookEnds?

That was a little long, I have to say I didn't read past the first few sentences. Maybe I'll look into it later when I have more time and also want to read it.
 

Heart2Soul

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lol Ya we are a lawless bunch! Particularly if you are Jew, I could see that statement. The Law of Christ, the law of Liberty, the Royal Law....but no Mosaic Law....
Exactly....thought about converting to Judaism but the Law of Moses was just too much! Lol
 
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justbyfaith

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I didn't read all of posts #1-#4 (though I read more of it).

So I don't know if the following has been addressed.

The law has a place in Christianity. It is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24-25). By it is the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20); and it also defines sin for us (1 John 3:4). Psalms 19:7 (kjv) tells us that it has the power to convert the soul; while Galatians 3:21 tells us that it doesn't have the power to impart life. It converts us by showing us we are sinners in need of a Saviour; and in pointing us to the Saviour that we are in need of Him.

Once we are redeemed, the law is written on our hearts and minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16). This is for all who are under the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10).

When we get born again, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5); and this love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6). This love is not in word or in tongue only; but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). So then, when we walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh (according to God's love), the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

We are not bound by the letter; but all of the above means that we are obedient to the spirit of the law (Romans 7:6).
 

marks

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Add to the list legalists, any who point you to your works as though they give a benefit towards your being accepted by God. As if they take you to some new "level" of relationship or status, "split-level holiness", stuff like that.

If we are looking to be accepted in Jesus, we are looking to Jesus. If we think our works add to our acceptance, then we are looking to our works.

It's like trying to drive on the freeway, while you have your eyes glued to the video of another road somewhere.

Much love!
 

aspen

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and or ignore the rest. If you have a desire to follow any part of the Mosaic Law, you need to give up Christianity and be a Jew. If you pull the Ten Commandments out to sight as religious guidance or observance you have commit 613 sins. If you violate one Law, you violate them all. James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. The Mosaic Law is a body of Laws, amputate a finger and you violate the whole body. If you post the Ten Commandments you posted 613 sins or 613 times ten depending on how you look at it. The only saving grace is that some of the Apostles referenced some of the Ten Commandments, and I say “some” because the phrase “Ten Commandments” does not appear in the New Testament and the Apostles only referenced a few but still never said, “These are your Laws.’ Of the first ten laws we do not observe the Sabbath, the Saturday holyday of the Jews, we observe the Lord’s day on Sunday, and even at that, we have a choice to pick another day, because we are not governed by the Law. Engraved images… You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. NASB Or Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: KJV That is pretty much any image made by man, figurine, statue, picture, or video …. television. We pretty much blew that one out of the water. Christianity has always had symbols and images. What would a Church be without a cross or a crucifix? The New Testament teaches us not to covet…. "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."…We do not covet but, human beings are not listed along with our property. And then; Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. This one is funny! Again many Christians do not understand Judaism or the culture. In a legal system where the testimony of two or three can get someone executed, there has to be a Law against false witness. People think this means; Thou shalt not lie. No, that is not what it means. I can take you on a walk through the Old Testament and prove that trickery and deceit was considered wisdom. The story of Jacob and Esau is a prime example. God even sided with Jacob on this one. This is a concept that exists in the Middle East even to this day. When the Americans sit down in good faith with the Moslems to come to an agreement, they consider us fools because we believe good people do not lie and they believe good people do lie. So they take what they can from the arrangement, never intending to honor what they agreed to. Whatever Laws that are left that are common sense, Christ and the Apostles explained better. For those that like the word “Law” the New Testament has the Law of Christ, the Law or Liberty, and the Royal Law. But in the New Testament the truth will set you free….so they are not really Laws. 1st Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.

Why do modern Judaizers do what they do? Why do they quote the Old Testament? It does have some religious and historical information, the creation story and other biblical stories. A lot of it is because they do not understand Judaism or know the 613 Mosaic Laws. They are usually drawn to some of the first ten laws but they do not have much interest in the rest of them. You cannot blame them, who would want to believe that God’s wisdom and righteousness came up with a Law that if a woman is raped in the city and she did not scream, she whould be killed with the man that raped her. Deuteronomy 22:23 Would Christ say anything like that? Or how about the Mosaic Law that says that if a Hebrew wife did not bleed (sign of virginity) on her wedding night that her husband could kill her and leave her on her father’s doorstep. Deuteronomy 22:20 Now I am sure pointing this out, even though it is true it could offend some, but I assure you I am in good company because Christ had issues with the Mosaic law. Matthew 19:8 He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.” And another Mosaic Law that He had issues with….But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty, life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. Exodus 21:23-24 Christ addressed this in Matthew 5:38-39 You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Again a lot of the interest in the Old Testament Laws are because they do not understand Judaism or know the 613 Mosaic Laws. If they would go through them line for line they would understand that they do not apply to Christianity nor would they want them to. Christ removed us from the burden of the Law. The Mosaic Law is a template for the morals and righteousness of the Old Testament but it had its flaws on both counts, morals and righteousness. Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. And one of those faults was that none of it led to salvation.

In the New Testament, God walked among us. It is a different type of teaching, a different type of relationship. He lived, worshiped, ate, slept, and walked with us. And He kinda liked us….In the end, He called us friends. There is no Law or religious teaching in the Old Covenant that can hold a candle to Christ’s teachings. No reason to reach back into the teachings or philosophical comments of men in the Old Testament, when you have the best that God had to offer in the New Testament. They are two different covenants, two different religious teachings, mixing them only causes confusion and muddies the living water of the truth. I love the Jewish people, and have had many Jewish friends. They are a good people, so if you love the Law go be one, Bon Appétit. If you want to be a Christian, focus on Christ our Lord, our God, our Messiah, He is enough.

Here is my take; everything in the Bible is supposed to be there. The OT contained the most compassionate, nonNationalist, reasonable ideas of the time. True, Gods word never changes, but people do! Today we are not so in need to hearing about God’s supremacy every other verse, but, apparently, desert warriors liked to hear about that aspect of God. Hopefully, we will tune into the love of God today, and let it change our hearts.
 

justbyfaith

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Oh it was a blessing, I have already studied the Mosaic Law....started a thread a couple of years ago inquiring the difference between the Law of Moses and the 10 Commandments or Law of God and did Jesus do away with both? The new commandments to Love...God first....neighbor second.
He did away with neither...Matthew 5:17-20.

However, we cannot save ourselves by keeping the law and the sooner we realize that the better.

It is only through faith in Christ's shed blood that we are even saved.

He sanctifies us through that blood (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29); so that we begin to walk in a holy manner that the law and prophets bear witness to the fact that it is righteousness indeed (Romans 3:21). But this righteousness is apart from the law according to the same scripture.
 

Grailhunter

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I didn't read all of posts #1-#4 (though I read more of it).

So I don't know if the following has been addressed.

The law has a place in Christianity. It is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24-25). By it is the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20); and it also defines sin for us (1 John 3:4). Psalms 19:7 (kjv) tells us that it has the power to convert the soul; while Galatians 3:21 tells us that it doesn't have the power to impart life. It converts us by showing us we are sinners in need of a Saviour; and in pointing us to the Saviour that we are in need of Him.

Once we are redeemed, the law is written on our hearts and minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16). This is for all who are under the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10).

When we get born again, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5); and this love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6). This love is not in word or in tongue only; but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). So then, when we walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh (according to God's love), the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

We are not bound by the letter; but all of the above means that we are obedient to the spirit of the law (Romans 7:6).


Christ is the fulfillment of the Law but not the continuance of the Mosaic Law for Christians. You are referencing New Testament scriptures, referencing Old Testament scriptures foretelling of a change and the New Covenant. I believe I provided enough scriptures to clarify what that change meant. This is why Christ did not find Judaism and Christianity compatible. Pulling in beliefs and Laws from the Old Testament just confuses things. If you prefer Jewish beliefs, you can still convert to Judaism. But then you would want to pull Christian beliefs into Judaism. And around and around the circle of confusion goes. In all things Christ's teaching are not only enough but are far superior in morels and character.
 

Grailhunter

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He did away with neither...Matthew 5:17-20.

However, we cannot save ourselves by keeping the law and the sooner we realize that the better.

It is only through faith in Christ's shed blood that we are even saved.

He sanctifies us through that blood (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29); so that we begin to walk in a holy manner that the law and prophets bear witness to the fact that it is righteousness indeed (Romans 3:21). But this righteousness is apart from the law according to the same scripture.

The Ten Commandments are part of the Mosaic Law and as a blanket statement, Paul made it clear that those Laws are not part of the new covenant. If you find a scripture that Paul says we are going keep part of the Mosaic Law....let me know.
 
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Waiting on him

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For the Israelites, as an ethnic people.

It's actually quite impossible to keep the Law here today. At least I don't know any Levites to give my tithes to.

Much love!
I believe that’s only every third year. Those in between years we’re to take it to where God has placed his name and consume it before Him.
 

Enoch111

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The Ten Commandments are part of the Mosaic Law and as a blanket statement, Paul made it clear that those Laws are not part of the new covenant. If you find a scripture that Paul says we are going keep part of the Mosaic Law....let me know.
While the Ten Commandments are a part of the Mosaic Law, they are also unchanging and eternal and have been incorporated into the Law of Christ, or the Law of Love (or the Law of Liberty).

Now please note carefully why you are mistaken:

ROMANS 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the Law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love (AGAPE) is the fulfilling of the Law.

1 CORINTHIANS 13

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away...
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity (AGAPE).
 

Heart2Soul

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While the Ten Commandments are a part of the Mosaic Law, they are also unchanging and eternal and have been incorporated into the Law of Christ, or the Law of Love (or the Law of Liberty).

Now please note carefully why you are mistaken:

ROMANS 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the Law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love (AGAPE) is the fulfilling of the Law.

1 CORINTHIANS 13

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away...
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity (AGAPE).
And that is how we are not bound to live according to the laws of Moses....because love supercedes the law. Love fulfills it in one action. Love cannot fail.
 
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