No Heaven if you don't mortify the deeds of the flesh

amadeus · Sep 6, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Certainly not. Although, a certain atheist made the following statement: If I believed as Christians say they do, I would tackle people in order to try to get them to see my pov that they could go to hell if they don't believe. It would be like if a blind and deaf friend were walking in front of an oncoming bus. I would physically do something about it. He might complain that I laid my hands on him, but I wouldn't care about that. I would be saving his life.

That is my paraphrase of what Penn of Penn and Teller said after having an encounter with someone who actually had the guts to witness Christ to him.

Not everything an atheist says is wrong, but I would be very slow to follow his advice with regard to walking with God or in witnessing to other people about God and the things of God.
On the other side, not everything a believer in Christ says is right, so we should let the Holy Spirit in us help us sift through what he says.

Then again remember always these words:

"Lay hands suddenly on no man..." I Tim 5:22

What we should be doing is waiting on God. Sometimes we, believing we've got this [understand this], move out ahead of God and take hold of that man in the midst of his troubles/trials and effectively shake him [sometimes even physically], to set him straight.

"Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD." Psalm 27:14

But of course, all we can really do is lead a horse to water. We can't make him drink; that is entirely up to the horse.

Amen! And when it comes to leading men to God grabbing them forcibly by the arm and dragging them to the altar of God will NOT usually be God's Way.

However, if we retain our saltiness as believers, we will be a thirst-producing factor in other people's lives. They will want to drink because they are thirsty and also realize that there is living water flowing from within us.

This is our best witness to all of the people around us who see us and our ways regularly. Then sometimes as a result God will open a door and it will time to open our mouths and speak.

The Lord spoke to me recently and told me that His word is like a two-edged sword. And therefore all I have to do is apply it to myself in a public manner; and it will cut to the quick on the other end those people to whom the scripture also applies. It deals pretty concisely with my tendency to be the judge of other people. If I take the beam out of my own eye, I will be able to see clearly to take the speck out of my brother's eye. This is how we become salty again: by applying the word to our own lives in front of other people and letting the Holy Spirit transform us from the inside out.

I hear what you are saying. You won't be wrong so long as you know how to wield the sword... or you know when to ask God for help. Don't get ahead of God.

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." John 5:30

Davy · Sep 6, 2019

amadeus said:
Why are you so touchy? It was not shown in the post to which I responded. Should I have reread the entire thread?

Nice attempt to elude what you did, but you DID your denial remark in responding to the very post where I quoted that John 8 Scripture. Nice try at refusing to admit guilt, but it doesn't work. Your post #160 is where you first responded to my post #149. You only quoted two sentences of my post, when my quote of John 8:58 is at the bottom of it. You simply failed to read all of that post, and then made a false witness against me like I was making up the idea of Christ calling Himself God.

That verse does not prove Jesus was God. It shows that He existed before Abraham. Therefore He was older than Abraham. So was Enoch the 7th from Adam.

And there you reveal plainly... that you do not believe what Jesus said in John 8:58 by quoting from the Old Testament, God's Name, "I AM". That is specifically why the unbelieving Pharisees tried to stone Jesus after He said...

John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto Him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"

58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

59 Then took they up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
KJV

When Jesus said that, He was saying that He existed before creation, which is to say He is The I AM, one of GOD's sacred names, and that why the Jews sought to stone Him right then and there. To deny that is very close to denying that Jesus is God having come in the flesh.

amadeus · Sep 6, 2019

Davy said:
Nice attempt to elude what you did, but you DID your denial remark in responding to the very post where I quoted that John 8 Scripture. Nice try at refusing to admit guilt, but it doesn't work. Your post #160 is where you first responded to my post #149. You only quoted two sentences of my post, when my quote of John 8:58 is at the bottom of it. You simply failed to read all of that post, and then made a false witness against me like I was making up the idea of Christ calling Himself God.

And there you reveal plainly... that you do not believe what Jesus said in John 8:58 by quoting from the Old Testament, God's Name, "I AM". That is specifically why the unbelieving Pharisees tried to stone Jesus after He said...

John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto Him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"

58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

59 Then took they up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
KJV

When Jesus said that, He was saying that He existed before creation, which is to say He is The I AM, one of GOD's sacred names, and that why the Jews sought to stone Him right then and there. To deny that is very close to denying that Jesus is God having come in the flesh.

Oh my, Davy! Do you have many friends? Believe me, nit picking, whether you are right or wrong, is not the best way to make them or keep them, is it? Neither will apparently or actually winning against people be assurance that you have pleased God.

"A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother." Prov 18:24

When I was a young child I had a cousin just 6 months younger than me who had been terribly spoiled. When we used to play monopoly and other such board games, he could not stand to lose. When he did lose he got angry as if his opponents had cheated him.

He was in those days the closest thing I had to a friend, so when it was just the two of us playing one of those games, I would cheat to make sure that I lost so as to keep him in a good temper. Eventually I learned that what I was doing was not a good thing to do... so I stopped losing on purpose and avoided playing with him. It was better to have no friends than such as that...which was not really a friend anyway. Now if a person is too persistent in his must win attitude, I simply don't race in that race with that person anymore.

Solomon recognized that this kind of thing happened among men...

"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all." Ecc 9:11

Jesus was willing to walk without friends and so must we be as we endure to the end anyway. Competition has nothing to do with it:

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." Matt 10:22

Davy · Sep 6, 2019

amadeus said:
Oh my, Davy! Do you have many friends? Believe me nit picking whether you are right or wrong is not the best way to make them or keep them, is it? Neither will apparently or actually winning against people be assurance that you have pleased God.

I'm done talking with deceivers like you. After this you go on my Ignore list.

Stan B · Sep 6, 2019

justbyfaith said:
I don't believe that our Lord is a mocker...mocking another is not holy behaviour; I would identify it as sinful. And Jesus was without sin.

justbyfaith, The God I have learned about from Scripture, regularly portrays Himself as a mocker. laughing at others. He has a great sense of humour. Here is just a brief sample:

"rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying, “Let us burst their bonds apart and cast away their cords from us.” He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. Psalm 2:4

"But you, O Lord, laugh at them; you hold all the nations in derision." Psalm 59:8

"But the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he sees that his day is coming." Psalm 37:13

"I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when terror strikes you" Proverbs 1:26-28

justbyfaith · Sep 6, 2019

Stan B said:
justbyfaith, The God I have learned about from Scripture, regularly portrays Himself as a mocker. laughing at others. He has a great sense of humour. Here is just a brief sample:

"rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and against his Anointed, saying, “Let us burst their bonds apart and cast away their cords from us.” He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. Psalm 2:4

"But you, O Lord, laugh at them; you hold all the nations in derision." Psalm 59:8

"But the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he sees that his day is coming." Psalm 37:13

"I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when terror strikes you" Proverbs 1:26-28

The latter verse is a symbolic quote of how wisdom will treat you if you do not seek her early.

The other verses may indeed speak of the Lord laughing; but I do not find the Lord mocking in these verses.

amadeus · Sep 6, 2019

Davy said:
I'm done talking with deceivers like you. After this you go on my Ignore list.

I really am sorry to hear this. There has been no deceit intended in what I have said. I really was trying help you, not so much in your doctrine as in your attitude [wrong spirit]. You do need to seriously examine yourself and ask for God's help so as to see yourself from His viewpoint. Hopefully someone else will quote my words so you will be able to read them even if I am on your ignore list.

justbyfaith · Sep 6, 2019

Davy said:
I'm done talking with deceivers like you. After this you go on my Ignore list.

[QUOTE="amadeus, post: 620301, member: 924"~]I really am sorry to hear this. There has been no deceit intended in what I have said. I really was trying help you, not so much in your doctrine as in your attitude [wrong spirit]. You do need to seriously examine yourself and ask for God's help so as to see yourself from His viewpoint. Hopefully someone else will quote my words so you will be able to read them even if I am on your ignore list.[/QUOTE]

07-07-07 · Sep 7, 2019

Heart2Soul said:
How about dealing with what's in your heart first? When our heart is pure then our actions will reflect it

A circumcised heart is indeed necessary to mortify the deeds of the flesh as the Lord commands. Jesus said, " If ye love me, keep my commandments" - John 14:15. Love is the mystery to walking in God's holiness and righteousness, sheltered under His wings.

07-07-07 · Sep 7, 2019

justbyfaith said:
It should be clear however that if salvation is real, one will show forth this fruit. Which means that without the fruit you can be pretty certain salvation is lacking.

Jesus said that a tree is known by its fruit. If someone claims to be born again while bearing the devil's fruit of sin, then that person is either deceived or a liar.

07-07-07 · Sep 7, 2019

marks said:
Hi Willie,

That's just the thing. This thinking is so easily shown for what it is for those who truly want to know the truth.

John wrote, Little children I write these things to you that you may not sin, and if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father, even Jesus Christ the Righteous.

He did Not write, and if you sin, then you can know you are not in Christ, not born again, and you need to get saved!

That people buy into this bondage breaks my heart!

Much love!

1 John 2
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Stan B · Sep 8, 2019

justbyfaith said:
The latter verse is a symbolic quote of how wisdom will treat you if you do not seek her early.

The other verses may indeed speak of the Lord laughing; but I do not find the Lord mocking in these verses.

If people, even Christians would spend more time embracing Scripture, that than discrediting it, perhaps diversity within the church would cease.

Willie T · Sep 8, 2019

Stan B said:
Enoch, IMO justbyfaith obviously has the spirit of discernment, and is on the right track. She and I have both sensed...…...

Wow, your "discernment" is so keen that you cannot even tell *justbyfaith* is a MALE.

justbyfaith · Sep 8, 2019

Stan B said:
If people, even Christians would spend more time embracing Scripture, that than discrediting it, perhaps diversity within the church would cease.

Diversity within the church is not a bad thing. Division, yes; diversity, no.

farouk · Sep 10, 2019

friend of said:
Galatians 3:3 is in order here

Easy for legalism to creep in...

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No Heaven if you don't mortify the deeds of the flesh

amadeus

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