Judaizers! They Live!!!! They walk among us!!!

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Grailhunter

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This does not answer the basics of becoming like Jesus. Such a vacuum is so obvious to the elect. Some have a vague view of Jesus and grace, like a drunk at a party for tee totallers claiming the caller of the party thinks drunks are ok .....

Bingo! When you say "elect" that send up red flags for me...Calvinist?
This is why you and I went at it before.
And how far do you think you can become "like Jesus" ....god?
 
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Enoch111

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Except He didn't really break the sabbath; because He is the Lord of the sabbath.
Christ never broke the sabbath. And within the sabbath itself, certain works were permissible by God. So you still don't have the whole picture.

And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? (Luke 14:5) [Note: acts of mercy were not forbidden on sabbath days, and all of Jesus' healings on sabbath days were acts of mercy]

And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? (Mk 2:24-25) [Note: showbread was baked and placed on the special table for it on sabbath days (work), and what David received was that which would have been discarded].

LEVITICUS 24
5 And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth deals shall be in one cake.
6And thou shalt set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before the LORD.
7 And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
9 And it shall be Aaron's and his sons'; and they shall eat it in the holy place: for it is most holy unto him of the offerings of the LORD made by fire by a perpetual statute.



 
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justbyfaith

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Bingo! When you say "elect" that send up red flags for me...Calvinist?
This is why you and I went at it before.
And how far do you think you can become "like Jesus" ....god?

Is Jesus god or God?

The word "elect" is found in the Bible...

Isa 42:1, Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whommy soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isa 45:4, For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isa 65:9, And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Isa 65:22, They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Mat 24:24, For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mat 24:31, And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mar 13:22, For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Mar 13:27, And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luk 18:7, And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Rom 8:33, Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Col 3:12, Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1Ti 5:21, I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Tit 1:1, Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1Pe 1:2, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1Pe 2:6, Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

2Jo 1:1, The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

2Jo 1:13, The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

Also, election:

Rom 9:11, (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)


Rom 11:5, Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:7, What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Rom 11:28, As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

1Th 1:4, Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

predestination:

Rom 8:29, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Eph 1:5, Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


Eph 1:11, In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
 

justbyfaith

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Christ never broke the sabbath. And within the sabbath itself, certain works were permissible by God. So you still don't have the whole picture.

And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? (Luke 14:5) [Note: acts of mercy were not forbidden on sabbath days, and all of Jesus' healings on sabbath days were acts of mercy]

And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? (Mk 2:24-25) [Note: showbread was baked and placed on the special table for it on sabbath days (work), and what David received was that which would have been discarded].

LEVITICUS 24
5 And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth deals shall be in one cake.
6And thou shalt set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before the LORD.
7 And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
9 And it shall be Aaron's and his sons'; and they shall eat it in the holy place: for it is most holy unto him of the offerings of the LORD made by fire by a perpetual statute.


Jesus, by setting the example in commanding the lame man to take up his bed on the sabbath day, violated the sabbath through His teaching: By His example He was teaching others to violate the sabbath, in that He told the lame man, on the sabbath day, to take up his bed.

He also told the Pharisees (John 5:17), My Father worketh hitherto, and I work; and that day was the sabbath day (John 5:10).

So Jesus was working on the sabbath day by His own admission.

Scripture says:

Exo 20:8, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9, Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
 

justbyfaith

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I am certainly aware that the priests violated the sabbath day in the temple, and were blameless. This is one of the reasons why Jesus was also blameless in His violation of the sabbath. Because He is greater than the temple. Also because He is the Lord of the sabbath. Also because He is High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec, which is not based after a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life. Being the Son of God, His virtue is not compromised by a violation of the letter.
 
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Grailhunter

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Is Jesus god or God?

The word "elect" is found in the Bible...

Isa 42:1, Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whommy soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isa 45:4, For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isa 65:9, And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Isa 65:22, They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Mat 24:24, For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mat 24:31, And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mar 13:22, For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Mar 13:27, And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luk 18:7, And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Rom 8:33, Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Col 3:12, Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1Ti 5:21, I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Tit 1:1, Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1Pe 1:2, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1Pe 2:6, Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

2Jo 1:1, The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

2Jo 1:13, The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

Also, election:

Rom 9:11, (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)


Rom 11:5, Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:7, What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Rom 11:28, As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

1Th 1:4, Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

predestination:

Rom 8:29, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Eph 1:5, Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


Eph 1:11, In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Very true....elect appears in the Bible....and applies to all that believe in Christ. But there are those that believe they are special in Christ. Part of a religion were they edify themselves above others and slander God....who are those? I am saying Calvinism and predestinationists, believes that an evil entity created heaven, and earth and mankind. Then took freewill away from them and forced some to be good and some to be bad. Which means that it nullifies, belief, faith, scriptures, love, grace, prayers, salvation, and good deeds because all of that was forced on them so none of that is to their merit or free-will. Alternatively this entity forces people to be bad, forces them to sin and then damns them to hell. For no sin of their own accord they are damned to be tortured forever, no free-will, no escape, no mercy, just predetermined damnation. Historically those that believe they are the “elect” have committed the worst atrocities. The term “elect” is used to edify themselves. All Christians that believe are the “elect” not the few that slander God. Evil lurks on the Internet, this is a warning to those that run into it. They come talking of love and scriptures, but it is all a lie. Why need scriptures if you are forced to believe and love and grace means nothing if you are forced to love. Oh Oh wait, are you saying that was not evil entity! That it is God! Oh that makes it much better! The question is, do your really thing God is a monster! Sad for you.
 

justbyfaith

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I am no Calvinist.

But for the sake of discussion I will play devil's advocate for a moment.

Calvinists would tell you that those who go to hell go there because they are sinners; not because God didn't choose them. Those who go to heaven go because He did choose them out of the primordial ooze of sinners and that it is to His glory that He chose them. But those whom He didn't choose don't go to heaven because they are predisposed towards sin and cannot choose God.

So He didn't force them to be bad. They were simply bad because of Adam's transgression; because they inherited sin from Adam. This was Adam's choice. So God is not to blame, but Adam, then Eve, then the serpent.
 

Grailhunter

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I am no Calvinist.

But for the sake of discussion I will play devil's advocate for a moment.

Calvinists would tell you that those who go to hell go there because they are sinners; not because God didn't choose them. Those who go to heaven go because He did choose them out of the primordial ooze of sinners and that it is to His glory that He chose them. But those whom He didn't choose don't go to heaven because they are predisposed towards sin and cannot choose God.

So He didn't force them to be bad. They were simply bad because of Adam's transgression; because they inherited sin from Adam. This was Adam's choice. So God is not to blame, but Adam, then Eve, then the serpent.

You have said that before, a Calvinist by another name. As soon as you say predestination that means God forced them. Sad for you.
 

Enoch111

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Jesus, by setting the example in commanding the lame man to take up his bed on the sabbath day, violated the sabbath through His teaching: By His example He was teaching others to violate the sabbath, in that He told the lame man, on the sabbath day, to take up his bed.
How many times are you going to repeat this NONSENSE?

Had Christ violated the Sabbath even once, He could not have become your Savior. So what you are promoting is a sinful Savior. Which is ludicrous. Especially after what I posted.
 

justbyfaith

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You have said that before, a Calvinist by another name. As soon as you say predestination that means God forced them. Sad for you.
The Bible uses the words predestinated and predestinate.

But no, in that the Lord did not force them. It is according to foreknowledge. From before the beginning of time, He saw those who will make it to heaven already there worshipping and praising Him over having been redeemed from the earth. Because God is outside of time.

Eternity's perspective is different than time's perspective.

From time's perspective we all have a choice in the matter.

From eternity's perspective it is all foreordained from eternity past (and eternity future, and everything in between).
 

Grailhunter

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The Bible uses the words predestinated and predestinate.

But no, in that the Lord did not force them. It is according to foreknowledge. From before the beginning of time, He saw those who will make it to heaven already there worshipping and praising Him over having been redeemed from the earth. Because God is outside of time.

Eternity's perspective is different than time's perspective.

From time's perspective we all have a choice in the matter.

From eternity's perspective it is all foreordained from eternity past (and eternity future, and everything in between).

First off, if this was not you i would not be this nice. You can talk out of the side of your mouth and it will never work. So move on in peace while we are both ahead.
 

justbyfaith

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How many times are you going to repeat this NONSENSE?

Had Christ violated the Sabbath even once, He could not have become your Savior. So what you are promoting is a sinful Savior. Which is ludicrous. Especially after what I posted.
No; I am saying that He didn't sin in violating the sabbath, because the change in law that is spoken of in Hebrews 7:12 had already been instituted. Jesus is High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec; not after a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life. I am saying that Jesus has always been entirely obedient to the spirit of the law, but was never bound by the letter of it. Therefore, when we abide by Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6, we are following His example.
 
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justbyfaith

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First off, if this was not you i would not be this nice. You can talk out of the side of your mouth and it will never work. So move on in peace while we are both ahead.
Okay. But I don't think that I am talking out of the side of my mouth. You simply need to meditate on time and eternity and how they relate to each other.
 

Grailhunter

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Okay. But I don't think that I am talking out of the side of my mouth. You simply need to meditate on time and eternity and how they relate to each other.

Look I intend to talk to you in the future. So you have said your peace I have said mine, so lets leave it at that. God Bless
 

justbyfaith

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What does John 5:18 say?

Jhn 5:18, Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath <in the estimation of the Pharisees>, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

What is found in <> is your added interpretation; but is not found in holy scripture.

It really says this:

Jhn 5:18, Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

It is the estimation of the apostle John, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, that Jesus had broken the sabbath.
 
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brakelite

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In John 5:17-18, Jesus said, My Father is working up till now, and I also work. He said this on the sabbath day.

And then, it was the estimation of the apostle John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that the Pharisees and scribes sought to kill Him because 1) He broke the sabbath; and, 2) He claimed that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

So then, if Jesus didn't really break the sabbath, that is one less scripture passage that a man can use to prove the Deity of Christ. Because if one of them isn't true then the other one also probably isn't true. It was just the Pharisees' estimation that Jesus was claiming to be equal with God. No; for it is clear to me that it was indeed the estimation of the apostle John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that 1) He was claiming to be equal with God; and 2) He broke the sabbath.

Except He didn't really break the sabbath; because He is the Lord of the sabbath.

But if He were subject to the letter and the way that the law is laid out in scripture, He did indeed break the sabbath. Except for the fact that He is Lord over it. (He is High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec, which is not based in a carnal commandment but is after the power of an endless life).

Exo 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Jhn 5:17, But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Jhn 5:18, Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

context:

Jhn 5:10, The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
Jhn 5:11, He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
You are right. Jesus did indeed break the Sabbath. He broke the Sabbath away from the man made strictures and burdens that made the Sabbath impossible to observe as God intended. The work that Jesus did on the Sabbath was not the labour that is to be completed in the other six days of the week. Look at the work he did. Healed the sick. Gave sight to the blind. Made the lame to walk. He blessed people on the Sabbath. He worked yes, but for others... Selflessly. That is not the labour spoken of in the commandments. It is the kind of work that was always lawful to do. Works of mercy such as when David gave the bread in the temple to his men.... Such as when Jesus and the disciples ate the grain in the corn field. God in His nature cannot be unmerciful or unkind... And to create a Sabbath such as what the Jews had done whereby acts of mercy and kindness were forbidden, and such as you are also advocating, is contrary to the love of God.
Jesus never sinned. Jesus never broke the 4 th commandment. Jesus never broke the Sabbath commandment as it was intended to be kept by the one who established it, sanctified it, and made it holy in the first place. Which was Jesus, and which explains why He is Lord of the Sabbath day.
The question is what are you doing with the Sabbath day...a day which is still sanctified, and holy.
 

justbyfaith

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Jesus never sinned. Jesus never broke the 4 th commandment. Jesus never broke the Sabbath commandment

Hebrews 4 tells us that there is a rest for the people of God....and that it is not the seventh day of the week.

The sabbath is epitomized by Jesus' statement in Matthew 11:28-30...

Mat 11:28, Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29, Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30, For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


It is a spiritual rest that supersedes the legalistic burden of being forbidden to do anything on a specific day of the week.

Fact is, Jesus worked on the sabbath...

Jhn 5:10, The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

Jhn 5:17, But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.


And this was in violation of the following:

Exo 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
 
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VictoryinJesus

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What you wrote was beautiful...then came the condemnation.
The question is what are you doing with the Sabbath day...a day which is still sanctified, and holy.
Which is odd and out of place when beginning with
He broke the Sabbath away from the man made strictures and burdens that made the Sabbath impossible to observe as God intended

The work that Jesus did on the Sabbath was not the labour that is to be completed in the other six days of the week.
Read what you said...your own words ... “The work that Jesus did on the Sabbath was not labour that is be completed in the OTHER six days of the week.” ...you are right ...the real work taught of In what Jesus Christ fully shows the Father doing: “My words are Spirit. They are Life.”

“The work that Jesus did on the Sabbath was not labour that could be completed in the other six days of the week.”....they were works reserved for the Lord’s day...the Day of Rest. His Holy Sabbath Day.

Look at the work he did. Healed the sick. Gave sight to the blind. Made the lame to walk. He blessed people on the Sabbath.

“He healed the sick.” John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Matthew 18:3
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

“Gave sight to the blind.” 2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

”Made the Lame to walk” Hebrews 12:13-14 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. [14] Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

”He blessed people on the Sabbath.” Yes He did...to the fullest. Luke 6:20-21 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. [21] Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

So you are exactly right...the works He did (acts of Mercy)were the works which could only be done and we’re reserved for the Sabbath day: kept by the one who established it, sanctified it, and made it Holy. A day like no other. Set apart for the Lord. Enter into His everlasting Rest. The difference between a physical temple made with hands ...and a Spiritual temple made without Hands with Christ as the chief corner stone. So also...The difference between a physical day of the week when God is not bound by time (Lord of the Sabbath), and the Spiritual everlasting Rest (refreshing) of God...the sabbath day of the Lord...where man ceases from his own works and is free to serve a living God.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. <is that what we want to insist on saying? Christ is dead in vain?