Judaizers! They Live!!!! They walk among us!!!

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brakelite

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What you wrote was beautiful...then came the condemnation.
Which is odd and out of place when beginning with


Read what you said...your own words ... “The work that Jesus did on the Sabbath was not labour that is be completed in the OTHER six days of the week.” ...you are right ...the real work taught of In what Jesus Christ fully shows the Father doing: “My words are Spirit. They are Life.”

“The work that Jesus did on the Sabbath was not labour that could be completed in the other six days of the week.”....they were works reserved for the Lord’s day...the Day of Rest. His Holy Sabbath Day.



“He healed the sick.” John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Matthew 18:3
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

“Gave sight to the blind.” 2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

”Made the Lame to walk” Hebrews 12:13-14 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. [14] Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

”He blessed people on the Sabbath.” Yes He did...to the fullest. Luke 6:20-21 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. [21] Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

So you are exactly right...the works He did (acts of Mercy)were the works which could only be done and we’re reserved for the Sabbath day: kept by the one who established it, sanctified it, and made it Holy. A day like no other. Set apart for the Lord. Enter into His everlasting Rest. The difference between a physical temple made with hands ...and a Spiritual temple made without Hands with Christ as the chief corner stone. So also...The difference between a physical day of the week when God is not bound by time (Lord of the Sabbath), and the Spiritual everlasting Rest (refreshing) of God...the sabbath day of the Lord...where man ceases from his own works and is free to serve a living God.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. <is that what we want to insist on saying? Christ is dead in vain?
Am interesting perspective and not altogether irrelevant, however, we are talking about a universal moral law of which the Sabbath commandment is an integral part, and because Christ is our example in all things, I think my question, (not condemnation) is pertinent. Particularly when Jesus's assumed breaking of the Sabbath is used as an excuse for our own violation of the commandment.
I said, quote,
The work that Jesus did on the Sabbath was not the labour (the same kind of work) that is to be completed in the other six days of the week.
The commandment says...6 days shalt thou labour and do all thy work... Thy work... Doing our Fathers work however, as Jesus did, is something not to be ignored on the Sabbath day. Doing the Father's work... Doing justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly, is something to be done every day is the week... But labour as spoken of in the commandment and what the Pharisees and some contributors to this thread have also s suggested, is that the work Jesus did and the labour spoken of in the commandments are the same. They aren't.
So my question still stands. The Sabbath is still a holy day set apart for holy use. What do you do with it? Do you also think it is Judaising to challenge people to consider the commandments as holy, just, and good and relevant to all people at all times? Can we pretend to be obeying God when we only reference 9 of the 10?? and being relevant to the Christian faith? Is obedience to God's commandments only a Jewish thing or a human thing?
 
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farouk

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You are right. Jesus did indeed break the Sabbath. He broke the Sabbath away from the man made strictures and burdens that made the Sabbath impossible to observe as God intended. The work that Jesus did on the Sabbath was not the labour that is to be completed in the other six days of the week. Look at the work he did. Healed the sick. Gave sight to the blind. Made the lame to walk. He blessed people on the Sabbath. He worked yes, but for others... Selflessly. That is not the labour spoken of in the commandments. It is the kind of work that was always lawful to do. Works of mercy such as when David gave the bread in the temple to his men.... Such as when Jesus and the disciples ate the grain in the corn field. God in His nature cannot be unmerciful or unkind... And to create a Sabbath such as what the Jews had done whereby acts of mercy and kindness were forbidden, and such as you are also advocating, is contrary to the love of God.
Jesus never sinned. Jesus never broke the 4 th commandment. Jesus never broke the Sabbath commandment as it was intended to be kept by the one who established it, sanctified it, and made it holy in the first place. Which was Jesus, and which explains why He is Lord of the Sabbath day.
The question is what are you doing with the Sabbath day...a day which is still sanctified, and holy.
Interesting that Hebrews 7 shows that the law was changed (verse 12) and what we now have is better than the law (verse 19).
 
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Grailhunter

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Am interesting perspective and not altogether irrelevant, however, we are talking about a universal moral law of which the Sabbath commandment is an integral part, and because Christ is our example in all things, I think my question, (not condemnation) is pertinent. Particularly when Jesus's assumed breaking of the Sabbath is used as an excuse for our own violation of the commandment.
I said, quote,

The commandment says...6 days shalt thou labour and do all thy work... Thy work... Doing our Fathers work however, as Jesus did, is something not to be ignored on the Sabbath day. Doing the Father's work... Doing justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly, is something to be done every day is the week... But labour as spoken of in the commandment and what the Pharisees and some contributors to this thread have also s suggested, is that the work Jesus did and the labour spoken of in the commandments are the same. They aren't.
So my question still stands. The Sabbath is still a holy day set apart for holy use. What do you do with it? Do you also think it is Judaising to challenge people to consider the commandments as holy, just, and good and relevant to all people at all times? Can we pretend to be obeying God when we only reference 9 of the 10?? and being relevant to the Christian faith? Is obedience to God's commandments only a Jewish thing or a human thing?



@VictoryinJesus
The Mosaic Law does not apply to Christians, but knowing the Mosaic Law is important for several reasons. One, so that you know that you do not want to be obliged to follow the 613 Mosaic Laws and two, it is good to know the status of Judaism, their Laws, and their customs during the era of the Gospels. If you don’t, there are going to be things that will be hard to understand and questions you are not going to be able to answer. But first let’s establish the baseline of truth that indicates that Christ never sinned.

2nd Corinthians 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

1st Peter 2:22 who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;

Hebrew 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

So these scriptures are the answer to if He sinned, He did not. But still there is a question as to why what He did was not a sin? The Pharisees did call Him on a few things. First I would like to point out the absurdity of questioning God on the interpretation of, and or the letter of the Law, can God sin against Himself? The Pharisees were more or less the lawyers and they interpreted the Law to suit themselves. But who better to interpret the Law, than Christ Himself. In any legalistic system, interpretation and context is 90 percent of the meaning. The Pharisees had tampered with the meaning of the Law so as to add further burden to their brothers while edifying themselves. Now Christ is going to explain this in detail….

Matthew chapter 23 Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else. They pile heavy burdens on people’s shoulders and won’t lift a finger to help. Everything they do is just to show off in front of others. They even make a big show of wearing Scripture verses on their foreheads and arms, and they wear big tassels for everyone to see. They love the best seats at banquets and the front seats in the meeting places. And when they are in the market, they like to have people greet them as their teachers. But none of you should be called a teacher. You have only one teacher, and all of you are like brothers and sisters. Don’t call anyone on earth your father. All of you have the same Father in heaven. None of you should be called the leader. The Messiah is your only leader. Whoever is the greatest should be the servant of the others. If you put yourself above others, you will be put down. But if you humble yourself, you will be honored. You Pharisees and teachers of the Law of Moses are in for trouble! You’re nothing but show-offs. You lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. You won’t go in yourselves, and you keep others from going in. You Pharisees and teachers of the Law of Moses are in for trouble! You’re nothing but show-offs. You travel over land and sea to win one follower. And when you have done so, you make that person twice as fit for hell as you are. You are in for trouble! You are supposed to lead others, but you are blind. You teach that it doesn’t matter if a person swears by the temple. But you say that it does matter if someone swears by the gold in the temple. You blind fools! Which is greater, the gold or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also teach that it doesn’t matter if a person swears by the altar. But you say that it does matter if someone swears by the gift on the altar. Are you blind? Which is more important, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Anyone who swears by the altar also swears by everything on it. And anyone who swears by the temple also swears by God, who lives there. To swear by heaven is the same as swearing by God’s throne and by the one who sits on that throne. You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you’re in for trouble! You give God a tenth of the spices from your garden, such as mint, dill, and cumin. Yet you neglect the more important matters of the Law, such as justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the important things you should have done, though you should not have left the others undone either. You blind leaders! You strain out a small fly but swallow a camel. You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you’re in for trouble! You wash the outside of your cups and dishes, while inside there is nothing but greed and selfishness. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of a cup, and then the outside will also be clean. You Pharisees and teachers are in for trouble! You’re nothing but show-offs. You’re like tombs that have been whitewashed. On the outside they are beautiful, but inside they are full of bones and filth. That’s what you are like. Outside you look good, but inside you are evil and only pretend to be good. You Pharisees and teachers are nothing but show-offs, and you’re in for trouble! You build monuments for the prophets and decorate the tombs of good people. And you claim that you would not have taken part with your ancestors in killing the prophets. But you prove that you really are the relatives of the ones who killed the prophets. So keep on doing everything they did. You are nothing but snakes and the children of snakes! How can you escape going to hell? I will send prophets and wise people and experts in the Law of Moses to you. But you will kill them or nail them to a cross or beat them in your meeting places or chase them from town to town. That’s why you will be held guilty for the murder of every good person, beginning with the good man Abel. This also includes Barachiah’s son Zechariah,the man you murdered between the temple and the altar. I can promise that you people living today will be punished for all these things!

So did Christ sin? Did Christ break the Law? No on both counts, He is innocent!
 
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brakelite

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Interesting that Hebrews 7 shows that the law was changed (verse 12) and what we now have is better than the law (verse 19).
What was that law, that foregoing commandment that was dismissed to make room for a different priesthood? Was it not the law that required that the priests be sons of Aaron, so that Jesus could be made a priest after the new order? That had nothing to do with the ten commandments.
 

farouk

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What was that law, that foregoing commandment that was dismissed to make room for a different priesthood? Was it not the law that required that the priests be sons of Aaron, so that Jesus could be made a priest after the new order? That had nothing to do with the ten commandments.
It was by the order of Melchizedek.

What verses 12 and 19 say about the law is clear.
 
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brakelite

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. Yet you neglect the more important matters of the Law, such as justice, mercy , and faithfulness.
Did you notice that those things, justice, mercy, and faithfulness, (and one prophet would add humility) are an integral part of the very law you say is not relevant?
 

FollowHim

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Bingo! When you say "elect" that send up red flags for me...Calvinist?
This is why you and I went at it before.
And how far do you think you can become "like Jesus" ....god?

Bingo, you send up red flags, by saying you send up red flags.
Jesus wants us to obey Him, to walk in His ways, to know His love flowing from our hearts, to want to help others because we see a need and want to minister to it.

And bingo, these words mean nothing to you, but "elect" causes a reaction.

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
1 Peter 1

You do not know what you are talking about, but you are copying others behaviour. Those in Christ are God's elect.

10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
2 Tim 2

There are too many who are trained for confrontation and not enough for listening to Jesus.
But then if one is not taught by Jesus and do not listen to Him what is one?
 

Grailhunter

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Did you notice that those things, justice, mercy, and faithfulness, (and one prophet would add humility) are an integral part of the very law you say is not relevant?

Did you notice that those things, justice, mercy, and faithfulness, (and one prophet would add humility) are an integral part of the very law you say is not relevant?

Relevant is a different topic. No Mosaic Law in Christianity. All Mosaic Laws are relevant to Christianity. Mosaic Laws are alive and well. Relevant to Christianity because they are the burden that Christ lifted from Christians. Relevant to Christians because it is a historic snap shot of Old
Testament morals and customs. The ministry of death still applied to the Jews. I say "applied to the Jews" because most modern Jews have....let say made some adjustments.
 

Grailhunter

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Bingo, you send up red flags, by saying you send up red flags.
Jesus wants us to obey Him, to walk in His ways, to know His love flowing from our hearts, to want to help others because we see a need and want to minister to it.

And bingo, these words mean nothing to you, but "elect" causes a reaction.

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
1 Peter 1

You do not know what you are talking about, but you are copying others behaviour. Those in Christ are God's elect.

10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
2 Tim 2

There are too many who are trained for confrontation and not enough for listening to Jesus.
But then if one is not taught by Jesus and do not listen to Him what is one?


Nice enough....knowledgeable enough....not honest enough. Admit what you are and we can continue this conversation in good will, or do you want to slither around like a snake. Forgiveness is yours....for a bit of honesty.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Am interesting perspective and not altogether irrelevant, however, we are talking about a universal moral law of which the Sabbath commandment is an integral part, and because Christ is our example in all things, I think my question, (not condemnation) is pertinent. Particularly when Jesus's assumed breaking of the Sabbath is used as an excuse for our own violation of the commandment.
I said, quote,

The commandment says...6 days shalt thou labour and do all thy work... Thy work... Doing our Fathers work however, as Jesus did, is something not to be ignored on the Sabbath day. Doing the Father's work... Doing justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly, is something to be done every day is the week... But labour as spoken of in the commandment and what the Pharisees and some contributors to this thread have also s suggested, is that the work Jesus did and the labour spoken of in the commandments are the same. They aren't.
So my question still stands. The Sabbath is still a holy day set apart for holy use. What do you do with it? Do you also think it is Judaising to challenge people to consider the commandments as holy, just, and good and relevant to all people at all times? Can we pretend to be obeying God when we only reference 9 of the 10?? and being relevant to the Christian faith? Is obedience to God's commandments only a Jewish thing or a human thing?

I say if not keeping the Sabbath(Saturday) brings you shame and guilt against God; then most definitely you are doing right by keeping it. Not attempting to encourage you to not keep the Sabbath as a day set apart for the Work of God. Only sharing another perspective ...to me it is necessary and much needed: to enter into His Rest and to cease from my own works to serve the Living God. The mercy you speak of ...that is desperately needed toward the world; I am truly convinced Entering into God’s Rest(the refreshing) is the only way to fully serve Him and not myself...and to possess all things as in 2 Corinthians 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

poor ...yet what is provided and comes from God gets the glory in “making many rich” as only He can make one rich toward Him. “As having nothing” ...yet possessing all things, so they know it is not of man...but given of God.

So no, I’m not waning to convince you of another way or to make you feel any less about the Sabbath being set apart for the Lord’s Work ...but hopefully maybe you can consider the power of this Rest of God He says to enter into where we cease from our own work and serve Him. Completely. Luke 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
 

VictoryinJesus

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@VictoryinJesus
The Mosaic Law does not apply to Christians, but knowing the Mosaic Law is important for several reasons. One, so that you know that you do not want to be obliged to follow the 613 Mosaic Laws and two, it is good to know the status of Judaism, their Laws, and their customs during the era of the Gospels. If you don’t, there are going to be things that will be hard to understand and questions you are not going to be able to answer. But first let’s establish the baseline of truth that indicates that Christ never sinned.

2nd Corinthians 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

1st Peter 2:22 who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;

Hebrew 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

So these scriptures are the answer to if He sinned, He did not. But still there is a question as to why what He did was not a sin? The Pharisees did call Him on a few things. First I would like to point out the absurdity of questioning God on the interpretation of, and or the letter of the Law, can God sin against Himself? The Pharisees were more or less the lawyers and they interpreted the Law to suit themselves. But who better to interpret the Law, than Christ Himself. In any legalistic system, interpretation and context is 90 percent of the meaning. The Pharisees had tampered with the meaning of the Law so as to add further burden to their brothers while edifying themselves. Now Christ is going to explain this in detail….

Matthew chapter 23 Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else. They pile heavy burdens on people’s shoulders and won’t lift a finger to help. Everything they do is just to show off in front of others. They even make a big show of wearing Scripture verses on their foreheads and arms, and they wear big tassels for everyone to see. They love the best seats at banquets and the front seats in the meeting places. And when they are in the market, they like to have people greet them as their teachers. But none of you should be called a teacher. You have only one teacher, and all of you are like brothers and sisters. Don’t call anyone on earth your father. All of you have the same Father in heaven. None of you should be called the leader. The Messiah is your only leader. Whoever is the greatest should be the servant of the others. If you put yourself above others, you will be put down. But if you humble yourself, you will be honored. You Pharisees and teachers of the Law of Moses are in for trouble! You’re nothing but show-offs. You lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. You won’t go in yourselves, and you keep others from going in. You Pharisees and teachers of the Law of Moses are in for trouble! You’re nothing but show-offs. You travel over land and sea to win one follower. And when you have done so, you make that person twice as fit for hell as you are. You are in for trouble! You are supposed to lead others, but you are blind. You teach that it doesn’t matter if a person swears by the temple. But you say that it does matter if someone swears by the gold in the temple. You blind fools! Which is greater, the gold or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also teach that it doesn’t matter if a person swears by the altar. But you say that it does matter if someone swears by the gift on the altar. Are you blind? Which is more important, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Anyone who swears by the altar also swears by everything on it. And anyone who swears by the temple also swears by God, who lives there. To swear by heaven is the same as swearing by God’s throne and by the one who sits on that throne. You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you’re in for trouble! You give God a tenth of the spices from your garden, such as mint, dill, and cumin. Yet you neglect the more important matters of the Law, such as justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the important things you should have done, though you should not have left the others undone either. You blind leaders! You strain out a small fly but swallow a camel. You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you’re in for trouble! You wash the outside of your cups and dishes, while inside there is nothing but greed and selfishness. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of a cup, and then the outside will also be clean. You Pharisees and teachers are in for trouble! You’re nothing but show-offs. You’re like tombs that have been whitewashed. On the outside they are beautiful, but inside they are full of bones and filth. That’s what you are like. Outside you look good, but inside you are evil and only pretend to be good. You Pharisees and teachers are nothing but show-offs, and you’re in for trouble! You build monuments for the prophets and decorate the tombs of good people. And you claim that you would not have taken part with your ancestors in killing the prophets. But you prove that you really are the relatives of the ones who killed the prophets. So keep on doing everything they did. You are nothing but snakes and the children of snakes! How can you escape going to hell? I will send prophets and wise people and experts in the Law of Moses to you. But you will kill them or nail them to a cross or beat them in your meeting places or chase them from town to town. That’s why you will be held guilty for the murder of every good person, beginning with the good man Abel. This also includes Barachiah’s son Zechariah,the man you murdered between the temple and the altar. I can promise that you people living today will be punished for all these things!

So did Christ sin? Did Christ break the Law? No on both counts, He is innocent!

Thank you. I don’t think He sinned. But then as mentioned by others earlier ...it gets confusing in the Pharisees sure thought He did, but I do realize in their eyes and by their standard which was not His and never was. He lifted up a New Standard...which is not New but His. In reading the Old Testament Laws...by no means understand them but putting Christ at the center clarifies many. Even some really weird ones. It is the same in your discussion here...to some it may appear someone is not keeping a Law by their standard of keeping it...but that doesn’t necessarily make it right. “Let God be right.” As those first two commandments of Love God with your whole heart and love your neighbour as you love yourself. ...as a beginning...
 

Grailhunter

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Thank you. I don’t think He sinned. But then as mentioned by others earlier ...it gets confusing in the Pharisees sure thought He did, but I do realize in their eyes and by their standard which was not His and never was. He lifted up a New Standard...which is not New but His. In reading the Old Testament Laws...by no means understand them but putting Christ at the center clarifies many. Even some really weird ones. It is the same in your discussion here...to some it may appear someone is not keeping a Law by their standard of keeping it...but that doesn’t necessarily make it right. “Let God be right.” As those first two commandments of Love God with your whole heart and love your neighbour as you love yourself. ...as a beginning...

It is actually a complex and long topic, I just tried to put it in a short explanation. There is a long history of Jews in Jerusalem and their interactions with the Romans....before Christ. Within that history the Pharisees are positioning themselves politically and religiously, to be the upper class, and as they do that they start to change the meaning / interpretation of the Laws. So by the time of Christ, the meaning of the Laws are almost unrecognizable, even though the written Law had not changed. Christ did not cross the line, he may have went right up to it to the line, to do what rightly needed to be done, but He did not cross the line. I like to point to this when I talk about "doers" Doers get in trouble more often than those that sit and watch those do what needs to be done. lol
 
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justbyfaith

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I consider that I have ceased from my own works as God did from His; while at the same time I operate in a labour of love.

This is because I do not have to do anything to get into heaven other than what I have already done; which is to receive and believe in Jesus Christ and what He did for me on the Cross.

Therefore the labour that I accomplish is accomplished from the perspective of rest.

I do it out of enjoyment and for fun; I find joy in the preaching of righteousness and it is in no way a drudgery or even what I would consider to be work.
 

VictoryinJesus

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I like to point to this when I talk about "doers" Doers get in trouble more often than those that sit and watch those do what needs to be done. lol

Not sure I understand what you mean here? The rest, agree on.
 

VictoryinJesus

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That Ok. People....if you do nothing, you cannot make a mistake, people can only be so critical. But nothing gets done.

Then pray something gets done...His Spirit’s movement over His body. We want the same thing, I think. A great move of God in His people where the hearts cry is answered. There is Good news of Victory: Isaiah 60:5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

The abundance of the sea... WILL BE converted unto thee...
 
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FollowHim

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Nice enough....knowledgeable enough....not honest enough. Admit what you are and we can continue this conversation in good will, or do you want to slither around like a snake. Forgiveness is yours....for a bit of honesty.
So you want to use snake analogies. Is this because of your bite?

You talk of honesty, yet all I share is honest and truthful. Liars and slanderers talk like you, and cannot find the lies, because they only believe they are there. This is what defines delusion, thinking something is there but being unable to say what

It is meaningless, because it is erroneous feelings. Jesus is about truth and life, love in the heart of the elect. Do you not know this love?

I know many who say yes, everyday, the life of Christ dwelling on them. Amen.
 

Grailhunter

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Then pray something gets done...His Spirit’s movement over His body. We want the same thing, I think. A great move of God in His people where the hearts cry is answered. There is Good news of Victory: Isaiah 60:5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

The abundance of the sea... WILL BE converted unto thee...

For example, Paul put himself out on a limb....a doer....took the ministry to the Gentiles. It was the right thing to do, but he took a lot of criticism from the Jewish-Christians for doing it. Closer to our times, the American Revolutionary War....not all of the colonists wanted to go to war with Britain and start a new country of freedom an liberty. So the revolutionists were criticized.