The House of Israel

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Paul

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im still not sure how the expression 'house of Isreal' referes to a geographical location.

But lets say it is the case....why does the NT speak so much of a 'heavenly kingdom' as opposed to an earthly one?

Also, i cant see how any restoration has taken place in the land of Isreal...they have been fighting over there for over 50 years and they are still beating their heads against the wailing wall....where is the restoration of the temple? Why is there no priesthood? because that would really spell a restoration.


The land of Israel could also refer to the place where the people of Israel currently live.
 

pastorlesofm

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im still not sure how the expression 'house of Isreal' referes to a geographical location.

But lets say it is the case....why does the NT speak so much of a 'heavenly kingdom' as opposed to an earthly one?

Also, i cant see how any restoration has taken place in the land of Isreal...they have been fighting over there for over 50 years and they are still beating their heads against the wailing wall....where is the restoration of the temple? Why is there no priesthood? because that would really spell a restoration.


Israel's fight is on the defensive, as most of the muslim country have only the total destruction of Israel, that was the whole idea of the PLO, and Jihad. The hate for Israel is seen in the Koran and heard in Muslim temples. The palestiians is a congregate of various members from surrounding muslim countries. Palestine comes from the British , who referred to Israel as Palestine during their occupation of Israel. The Bible discribes the Borders of Israel , not the history text books. Note that strangely the Palistinans came along shortly after Israel was declared a state by the UN. The motive is obvious for Palestinians. No matter how much land Israel hands over to Palestine, Palistians will want more, until all of Israel is in the hands of the Muslim World. Unfortunately the world is buying the Palestinuans' objective. Israel is not the occupiers , quite the opposite. You know the World hates the people, God's Son and God Himself. The Cross is where the hate of the World and the Love of God did battle and God's Love won the battle. He will win the battle over Israel also. Israel at times did turn its' back on God but believe me God never turned His back on Israel, and He never will, no more than He turns His back on us. If Jesus could say from the Cross;" Forgive them Father, for they know not what they did.", one must agree that God would do the same to Israel. Even though the world writes the Jews off, God will never write them off, rest assured. As far as a high priest in Israel , there is one, Jesus Christ, as He is our High Priest, daily making intercession for us. End time prophecy states that Israel will realize that they allowed the Messiah to go to the Cross, that the Messiah came in the Person of Jesus Christ. There will be great mourning among Israel.
 

brionne

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The land of Israel could also refer to the place where the people of Israel currently live.

It may be called that today, but it wasnt in bible times

'the house of Isreal' refered to Jacobs decendents...not the land as these scriptures show: Ob 17, 18 & Mic 1:5

And in Matt 10:6 Jesus was telling his apostles to go and preach to the 'people' of Isreal, not the land


So im still at a loss as to why/how 'the house of isreal' came to referre to the land and not the people.

Israel's fight is on the defensive, as most of the muslim country have only the total destruction of Israel, that was the whole idea of the PLO, and Jihad. The hate for Israel is seen in the Koran and heard in Muslim temples. The palestiians is a congregate of various members from surrounding muslim countries. Palestine comes from the British , who referred to Israel as Palestine during their occupation of Israel. The Bible discribes the Borders of Israel , not the history text books. Note that strangely the Palistinans came along shortly after Israel was declared a state by the UN. The motive is obvious for Palestinians. No matter how much land Israel hands over to Palestine, Palistians will want more, until all of Israel is in the hands of the Muslim World. Unfortunately the world is buying the Palestinuans' objective. Israel is not the occupiers , quite the opposite. You know the World hates the people, God's Son and God Himself. The Cross is where the hate of the World and the Love of God did battle and God's Love won the battle. He will win the battle over Israel also. Israel at times did turn its' back on God but believe me God never turned His back on Israel, and He never will, no more than He turns His back on us. If Jesus could say from the Cross;" Forgive them Father, for they know not what they did.", one must agree that God would do the same to Israel. Even though the world writes the Jews off, God will never write them off, rest assured. As far as a high priest in Israel , there is one, Jesus Christ, as He is our High Priest, daily making intercession for us. End time prophecy states that Israel will realize that they allowed the Messiah to go to the Cross, that the Messiah came in the Person of Jesus Christ. There will be great mourning among Israel.


politics aside, it doesnt explain how the 'house of Isreal' came to refer to the land and not the people.

And did you not realise that the modern jews have rejected the idea of a personal messiah? They don't believe in a real messiah anymore...they are not waiting for the christ...they are not convinced that a real physical messiah is what the OT prophesies were promising so i think you'll be waiting a very long time for them to suddenly accept that Jesus was in fact the messiah.
 

pastorlesofm

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It may be called that today, but it wasnt in bible times

'the house of Isreal' refered to Jacobs decendents...not the land as these scriptures show: Ob 17, 18 & Mic 1:5

And in Matt 10:6 Jesus was telling his apostles to go and preach to the 'people' of Isreal, not the land


So im still at a loss as to why/how 'the house of isreal' came to referre to the land and not the people.




politics aside, it doesnt explain how the 'house of Isreal' came to refer to the land and not the people.

And did you not realise that the modern jews have rejected the idea of a personal messiah? They don't believe in a real messiah anymore...they are not waiting for the christ...they are not convinced that a real physical messiah is what the OT prophesies were promising so i think you'll be waiting a very long time for them to suddenly accept that Jesus was in fact the messiah.


What the Word of God says is what I will go with and no ther text. That is the only reference you'll see me use or quote.No text b ooks, dictionaries, encylopedias, just the plain Word of God. Pegg you can research all of man's knowledge you want and disires out there, I will never begrudge Israel's right to the land they have now. It is the muslims who are the tent dwellers, not Israel.
 

Paul

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It may be called that today, but it wasnt in bible times

'the house of Isreal' refered to Jacobs decendents...not the land as these scriptures show: Ob 17, 18 & Mic 1:5

And in Matt 10:6 Jesus was telling his apostles to go and preach to the 'people' of Isreal, not the land


So im still at a loss as to why/how 'the house of isreal' came to referre to the land and not the people.


...


And the House of Israel is still here today but the vast majority of them live right here in the USA, that is the House of Israel I'm talking about.

...

And did you not realise that the modern jews have rejected the idea of a personal messiah? They don't believe in a real messiah anymore...they are not waiting for the christ...they are not convinced that a real physical messiah is what the OT prophesies were promising so i think you'll be waiting a very long time for them to suddenly accept that Jesus was in fact the messiah.

Pegg, do you know that there are people that claim to be Jews but are not? Did you know that there are true Jews that are descendents of the tribe of Judah and there are those that are called Jews because they live in the land of Judea?
 

brionne

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Pegg, do you know that there are people that claim to be Jews but are not? Did you know that there are true Jews that are descendents of the tribe of Judah and there are those that are called Jews because they live in the land of Judea?

No Jew can trace their decendency back to the tribe of Judah...none of them. Their genealogical records were destroyed by Rome in 70ce when jerusalem, its priesthood and temple were destroyed and over a million jews lost their lives.

but no one has explained how 'the house of Isreal' came to be refered to as the 'land of isreal' yet.
 

Paul

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No Jew can trace their decendency back to the tribe of Judah...none of them. Their genealogical records were destroyed by Rome in 70ce when jerusalem, its priesthood and temple were destroyed and over a million jews lost their lives.

but no one has explained how 'the house of Isreal' came to be refered to as the 'land of isreal' yet.


Because, as has been said, the house of Israel lives somewhere on the land, so it's called the land of Israel.
 

JarBreaker

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And did you not realise that the modern jews have rejected the idea of a personal messiah? They don't believe in a real messiah anymore...they are not waiting for the christ...they are not convinced that a real physical messiah is what the OT prophesies were promising so i think you'll be waiting a very long time for them to suddenly accept that Jesus was in fact the messiah.


Jews are indeed waiting for a physical messiah ... and not just one but TWO of them.
 

pastorlesofm

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Jews are indeed waiting for a physical messiah ... and not just one but TWO of them.


I do not really think the 12 Tribes of Israel are lost, but scattered. Jesus' lineage goes back to the Levites. Luke 3:23-38 and Matthew 1:2-17. I suggest that you might want to visit:http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/pics/TLWEB1106.pdf
 

Paul

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I do not really think the 12 Tribes of Israel are lost, but scattered. Jesus' lineage goes back to the Levites. Luke 3:23-38 and Matthew 1:2-17. I suggest that you might want to visit:http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/pics/TLWEB1106.pdf


Yes, they are only lost in the sense that they do not know who they are. God didn't lose them.
 

JarBreaker

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I do not really think the 12 Tribes of Israel are lost, but scattered. Jesus' lineage goes back to the Levites. Luke 3:23-38 and Matthew 1:2-17. I suggest that you might want to visit:http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/pics/TLWEB1106.pdf

These 2 things dont need each other to exist ... actually more jews believe in 2 coming messiahs than believe the 10 lost tribes will be regathered.
 

veteran

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Amos 9:8-9
8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
(KJV)

I think our Heavenly Father is reserving a time when this matter of what happened to the ten lost tribes will be revealed to all nations. I have no doubt it has already been revealed to many of His servants whom He called in Christ Jesus.

The Jewish historian Josephus said in his day (100 A.D.) the ten tribes were still scattered abroad, and were a great number of people, too many to be numbered. Quite a few Jewish rabbi understand Bible prophecy that the ten tribes are to one day return and be joined with the house of Judah. In the early days of Israel before God split it into two separate kingdoms after Solomon's days, the ten tribes in the north made up the majority of the nation of Israel. It's safe to assume based on God's prophecy that they would be as many as the stars of the sky and sands of the sea that they continued to increase in number like the house of Judah has.

The ten lost tribes message may appear to be a one-sided idea among ethnic believers on Christ, and that has been one of the reasons for not preaching about it in many Churches, for fear of alienating Gentiles while seeming to place the seed of Israel above God's Salvation Plan through His Son Jesus Christ. The Biblical fact remains that God said He chose Israel above all other nations for a purpose, and it was not about their being above His Plan of Salvation. That can easily be seen with Israel's history of following anything and everything except The LORD.

Israel being chosen was for duty to all other nations in The Gospel of Jesus Christ, to take The Gospel to all peoples. A realistic look at history reveals from among what nations and peoples that has been done. It has not historically been by orthodox Judaism, nor any nation in the holy land, but by Christian nations in the west that became Christian only after Christ's death on the cross and The Gospel was accepted by them on national levels. They in turn have sent ambassadors with The Gospel Message to nations primarily outside the west, as it still is today. As Christ foretold the scribes and Pharisees His vineyard would be taken from them and given to a nation that would bear the fruits of His vineyard (Matt.21), so that has happened with the western Christian nations of history. Both the saved remnant of believing Israel and believing Gentiles should rejoice in that blessing and duty.
 

Job one

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To quote the OP question:

"Why did Jesus say:"I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matt.15:24)when they were mostly not in the land "Israel" when he came?"

His earthly mission was among the House of Judah. The above scripture in my observation is a most powerful declaration of His additional assignment from the Father, to, as He stated: "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matt.15:24)

Where is there any record of His visit to these lost sheep of the house of Israel?

Did not Christ also teach us another powerful insight in connection with the above:

John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

From the above we learn that those other sheep that were not of this fold , would also "hear His voice"

Where do we find the account of the fulfillment of these words of Christ?
 

veteran

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To quote the OP question:

"Why did Jesus say:"I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matt.15:24)when they were mostly not in the land "Israel" when he came?"

His earthly mission was among the House of Judah. The above scripture in my observation is a most powerful declaration of His additional assignment from the Father, to, as He stated: "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matt.15:24)

Where is there any record of His visit to these lost sheep of the house of Israel?

Did not Christ also teach us another powerful insight in connection with the above:

John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

From the above we learn that those other sheep that were not of this fold , would also "hear His voice"

Where do we find the account of the fulfillment of these words of Christ?


Have to go back to the OT prophets about what our Lord Jesus was saying in John 10:16 (see examples further below).

With both, including Matthew 10:5-6 and 15:22-26, we have to consider what timing that was, for He had not yet been delivered up to die on the cross. Our Lord Jesus was prophesied to come to Israel first. A remnant of the Jews of the house of Judah was the only part of Israel remaining in the land, and as God foretold through His OT prophets, He would be rejected by them and be crucified.

Yet as God also foretold through His OT prophets, a remnant of Israel would believe, and carry forth The Gospel especially pointing to the ten lost tribes under Ephraim (see Book of Hosea). And that's the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" our Lord Jesus was pointing to.

Then after Christ's death and resurrection, He sent His Apostles to the Gentiles, and called Apostle Paul specifically to preach to the Gentiles, to kings, and to the children of Israel (i.e., scattered ten tribes among the Gentiles, the lost sheep house of Israel). Britain in the 1st century A.D. was the first Christian 'nation' to receive Christ Jesus. Britain's ancient historians record that Joseph of Arimethea came to the isles of Britain immediately after the passion of Christ. The Roman Church has admitted this through several of its historical Councils that Britain was the first Christian nation to receive The Gospel. Apostle Paul had planned to go to brethren in the Church in Spain (Rom.15). While Paul preached The Gospel in his captivity house at Rome, still then the Jews in Rome refused Christ Jesus (Acts 28). There was a palace in Rome at that time when a king of Britain was captive by the Romans.


Ps 98:1-4
1 O sing unto the LORD a new song; for He hath done marvellous things: His right hand, and His holy arm, hath gotten Him the victory.
2 The LORD hath made known His salvation: His righteousness hath He openly shewed in the sight of the heathen.
3 He hath remembered His mercy and His truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.
4 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.
(KJV)

The word "heathen" in verse 2 is put for Gentiles, but not in a derogatory sense.


Isa 11:10-13
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And He shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
(KJV)


In those Scripture examples, which are still future in final at Christ's return, different groups are specifically mentioned in His Salvation. The "nations" is put for Gentiles. "Ephraim" and the "outcasts of Israel" is put for the ten tribes of the house of Israel, and "dispersed of Judah" and "Judah" is put for the Jews.


John 17:18-23
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
22 And the glory which Thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are one:
23 I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent Me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved Me.
(KJV)

As The Father sent Christ Jesus into the world, so likewise Christ sent His elect servants into the world to bring forth God's Salvation through The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Those elect servants are sent to take The Gospel to all peoples, so that both may become one in The Father and The Son.

Those first called in that duty began in OT times with the Seed of the Woman, then continuing through a remnant of elect Israel, then to an elect among the Gentiles, and then to all others.


 

bud02

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Why did Jesus say:"I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matt.15:24)when they were mostly not in the land "Israel" when he came?

Israel is Jacobs name given to him by the LORD. Israel = all of his 12 sons. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those that don't know or did not recognise Jesus as being the promise of Abraham. the separation of Judea from Israel is a different matter. Israel "the 10 tribes proper" then became lost to history, but Josephus tells us at the time of Christ their whereabouts were known.
 

veteran

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Israel is Jacobs name given to him by the LORD. Israel = all of his 12 sons. The lost sheep of the house of Israel are those that don't know or did not recognise Jesus as being the promise of Abraham. the separation of Judea from Israel is a different matter. Israel "the 10 tribes proper" then became lost to history, but Josephus tells us at the time of Christ their whereabouts were known.


Some documentation from Judah, (which agrees with God's Word on the matter also)...

"The people known as Jews are the descendents of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, with a certain number of the Tribe of Levi. So far as is known, there is not any further admixture of other tribes. The Ten Tribes have been absorbed among the nations of the world. The Jews look forward to the gathering of all the tribes at some future date." -- Dr. Hertz, Chief Rabbi of the British Empire, 1918.

"While not a link is missing of the historical chain so far as the romance of the House of Judah is concerned, the Israelites who were subjected by the Assyrian power disappear from the page of history as sudden and completely as though the land of their captivity had swallowed them up. The Ten Tribes are certainly in existence, all that has to be done is to discover which people represent them." -- The Jewish Chronicles, May 22, 1879.

"The captives of Israel exiled beyond the Euphrates did not return as a whole to Palestine along with their brethren the captives of Judah; at least there is no mention made of this event in the documents at our disposal.... In fact, the return of the ten tribes was one of the great promises of the prophets, and the advent of the Messiah is therefore necessarily identified with the epoch of their redemption." -- Jewish Quarterly Review, Vol. I, 1888, pages 15, 17.

"The Jews do not claim to represent the Twelve Tribes for the Ten Tribes never returned from captivity and are lost to history." -- Rabbi Aaron Werner, when asked by Dr. Schiffner, "Do the Jews represent all 12 tribes?"

"The ten tribes did not return to Palestine; only two tribes served the Romans after Palestine became a Roman province... the ten tribes are beyond the Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude not to be estimated in numbers." -- Josephus (100 A.D.), in Antiquities Of The Jews, 11.5.2.


Just as our Heavenly Father promised He would preserve a remnant of the house of Judah in The Gospel, He also foretold the same through His prophet Ezekiel about a small preserved remnant of the house of Israel (ten tribes)...

Ezek 6:8-11
8 Yet will I leave a remnant, that ye may have some that shall escape the sword among the nations, when ye shall be scattered through the countries.
9 And they that escape of you shall remember Me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from Me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall lothe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations.
10 And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.
11 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Smite with thine hand, and stamp with thy foot, and say, Alas for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! for they shall fall by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence.
(KJV)


In Ezekiel 3, God said He sent Ezekiel as a prophet specifically to the House of Israel (ten tribes). The above promise shows that God also preserved a remnant among the scattered lost ten tribes that would remember Him in their captivity among the nations. That reveals not absolutely everyone of the ten tribes lost knowledge of their Israelite heritage of the northern ten tribes of Israel. That has nothing to do with Jews of the House of Judah which kept their identity when scattered.


Jer 31:2
2 Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
(KJV)


God said the above about all the families of Israel, but the "even Israel" phrase is especially about the ten lost tribes. This is why it's so important to understand the Biblical history about separation of Israel into two separate Houses. Not knowing that history means misassigning separate prophecies God gave to each House (like many Ezekiel Scripture specifically for the House of Israel and not the Jews of the House of Judah).

So what time was that when "even Israel" (ten tribes), was caused to rest, and found GRACE in the wilderness?



Ezek 20:30-38
30 Wherefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Are ye polluted after the manner of your fathers? and commit ye whoredom after their abominations?
31 For when ye offer your gifts, when ye make your sons to pass through the fire, ye pollute yourselves with all your idols, even unto this day: and shall I be inquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will not be inquired of by you.
32 And that which cometh into your mind shall not be at all, that ye say, "We will be as the heathen, as the families of the countries, to serve wood and stone."

Got to stay sharp with what our Heavenly Father is saying here about the ten tribes of Israel. He's asking them if they're still polluting themselves with idols like their fathers did. And they rebelliously say they will be like the pagan nations that follow idols in the places where God scatters them. But what does God say about that?...



33 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

God replies that He WILL RULE OVER THEM with a mighty hand. It's like whether they like it not, He is going to rule over them for His Own Sake. Our Heavenly Father is not like man who breaks promises. Keep focus, God is saying this specifically to the House of Israel, not the Jews of the House of Judah. This is about the ten tribes lost in captivity to the nations.


34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

Huge time pointer there. That "wilderness of the people" is not about the Holy Lands of Promise. So what's that? It's about another place He would lead them during their scattering among the nations. And it was there that He would plead with the ten tribes "face to face." Where was that, and how did He plead with them face to face?...


36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against Me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
(KJV)

In those new lands is where God began to plead with the ten lost tribes of Israel. They would pass under His rod of correction there, and then He would plead with them by The New Covenant Jesus Christ. And during that pleading He would "purge out" the rebels among them so those rebellious ones will not return with the faithful ones in final gathering to the lands of promise when Christ returns (that part is not yet complete today).

Much of this is an overlay of the prophecy to the House of Israel (Ephraim) given through Hosea, which Apostle Paul quoted from in the Book of Romans. The prophecy INCLUDES the believing Gentiles where the ten tribes were scattered among.


This is truly an amazing prophetic discovery about the scattered ten tribes of Israel, for those who understand it. It shows God's Purpose for scattering the ten tribes because of their falling away to idols, but keeping His Promise to them to still remain a chosen people to Him during their captivity among the nations, and using those new lands (wilderness) to purge out the dross tin among the ten tribes before gathering them and believing Gentiles together back to the Holy Land He promised their fathers. It's pointing to Christian history that began in Asia Minor and Europe, and not at all about unbelieving Jews.





 

bud02

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Some documentation from Judah, (which agrees with God's Word on the matter also)...

"The people known as Jews are the descendents of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, with a certain number of the Tribe of Levi. So far as is known, there is not any further admixture of other tribes. The Ten Tribes have been absorbed among the nations of the world. The Jews look forward to the gathering of all the tribes at some future date." -- Dr. Hertz, Chief Rabbi of the British Empire, 1918.

"While not a link is missing of the historical chain so far as the romance of the House of Judah is concerned, the Israelites who were subjected by the Assyrian power disappear from the page of history as sudden and completely as though the land of their captivity had swallowed them up. The Ten Tribes are certainly in existence, all that has to be done is to discover which people represent them." -- The Jewish Chronicles, May 22, 1879.

"The captives of Israel exiled beyond the Euphrates did not return as a whole to Palestine along with their brethren the captives of Judah; at least there is no mention made of this event in the documents at our disposal.... In fact, the return of the ten tribes was one of the great promises of the prophets, and the advent of the Messiah is therefore necessarily identified with the epoch of their redemption." -- Jewish Quarterly Review, Vol. I, 1888, pages 15, 17.

"The Jews do not claim to represent the Twelve Tribes for the Ten Tribes never returned from captivity and are lost to history." -- Rabbi Aaron Werner, when asked by Dr. Schiffner, "Do the Jews represent all 12 tribes?"

"The ten tribes did not return to Palestine; only two tribes served the Romans after Palestine became a Roman province... the ten tribes are beyond the Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude not to be estimated in numbers." -- Josephus (100 A.D.), in Antiquities Of The Jews, 11.5.2.


Just as our Heavenly Father promised He would preserve a remnant of the house of Judah in The Gospel, He also foretold the same through His prophet Ezekiel about a small preserved remnant of the house of Israel (ten tribes)...

Ezek 6:8-11
8 Yet will I leave a remnant, that ye may have some that shall escape the sword among the nations, when ye shall be scattered through the countries.
9 And they that escape of you shall remember Me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from Me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall lothe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations.
10 And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.
11 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Smite with thine hand, and stamp with thy foot, and say, Alas for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! for they shall fall by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence.
(KJV)


In Ezekiel 3, God said He sent Ezekiel as a prophet specifically to the House of Israel (ten tribes). The above promise shows that God also preserved a remnant among the scattered lost ten tribes that would remember Him in their captivity among the nations. That reveals not absolutely everyone of the ten tribes lost knowledge of their Israelite heritage of the northern ten tribes of Israel. That has nothing to do with Jews of the House of Judah which kept their identity when scattered.


Jer 31:2
2 Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
(KJV)


God said the above about all the families of Israel, but the "even Israel" phrase is especially about the ten lost tribes. This is why it's so important to understand the Biblical history about separation of Israel into two separate Houses. Not knowing that history means misassigning separate prophecies God gave to each House (like many Ezekiel Scripture specifically for the House of Israel and not the Jews of the House of Judah).

So what time was that when "even Israel" (ten tribes), was caused to rest, and found GRACE in the wilderness?



Ezek 20:30-38
30 Wherefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Are ye polluted after the manner of your fathers? and commit ye whoredom after their abominations?
31 For when ye offer your gifts, when ye make your sons to pass through the fire, ye pollute yourselves with all your idols, even unto this day: and shall I be inquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will not be inquired of by you.
32 And that which cometh into your mind shall not be at all, that ye say, "We will be as the heathen, as the families of the countries, to serve wood and stone."

Got to stay sharp with what our Heavenly Father is saying here about the ten tribes of Israel. He's asking them if they're still polluting themselves with idols like their fathers did. And they rebelliously say they will be like the pagan nations that follow idols in the places where God scatters them. But what does God say about that?...



33 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

God replies that He WILL RULE OVER THEM with a mighty hand. It's like whether they like it not, He is going to rule over them for His Own Sake. Our Heavenly Father is not like man who breaks promises. Keep focus, God is saying this specifically to the House of Israel, not the Jews of the House of Judah. This is about the ten tribes lost in captivity to the nations.


34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

Huge time pointer there. That "wilderness of the people" is not about the Holy Lands of Promise. So what's that? It's about another place He would lead them during their scattering among the nations. And it was there that He would plead with the ten tribes "face to face." Where was that, and how did He plead with them face to face?...


36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against Me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
(KJV)

In those new lands is where God began to plead with the ten lost tribes of Israel. They would pass under His rod of correction there, and then He would plead with them by The New Covenant Jesus Christ. And during that pleading He would "purge out" the rebels among them so those rebellious ones will not return with the faithful ones in final gathering to the lands of promise when Christ returns (that part is not yet complete today).

Much of this is an overlay of the prophecy to the House of Israel (Ephraim) given through Hosea, which Apostle Paul quoted from in the Book of Romans. The prophecy INCLUDES the believing Gentiles where the ten tribes were scattered among.


This is truly an amazing prophetic discovery about the scattered ten tribes of Israel, for those who understand it. It shows God's Purpose for scattering the ten tribes because of their falling away to idols, but keeping His Promise to them to still remain a chosen people to Him during their captivity among the nations, and using those new lands (wilderness) to purge out the dross tin among the ten tribes before gathering them and believing Gentiles together back to the Holy Land He promised their fathers. It's pointing to Christian history that began in Asia Minor and Europe, and not at all about unbelieving Jews.






House of Israel "Jacob" I assure you Jesus came for the whole house. Then first offered salvation to them alone, then to the Gentiles, and that fulfilled Gods promise to them Israel. You can continue to believe that the blood line is a chosen people if you like, but to give you one example John the Baptist disagreed with you as well. Matthew 3:9
 

tomwebster

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Dec 11, 2006
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House of Israel "Jacob" I assure you Jesus came for the whole house. Then first offered salvation to them alone, then to the Gentiles, and that fulfilled Gods promise to them Israel. You can continue to believe that the blood line is a chosen people if you like, but to give you one example John the Baptist disagreed with you as well. Matthew 3:9

bud,
Just who do you think John was talking to in vs 9, Jews?
 

bud02

New Member
Aug 14, 2010
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bud,
Just who do you think John was talking to in vs 9, Jews?

Why would John address them in such a manner If they weren't ? Unless of course you believe John was mistaken.

Did Jesus believe they were Jews?

[sup]13[/sup] “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. [sup]14[/sup] Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.[sup][c][/sup]
[sup]15[/sup] “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
[sup]16[/sup] “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ [sup]17[/sup] Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies[sup][d][/sup] the gold? [sup]18[/sup] And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.’ [sup]19[/sup] Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? [sup]20[/sup] Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. [sup]21[/sup] He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells[sup][e][/sup] in it. [sup]22[/sup] And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.
[sup]23[/sup] “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. [sup]24[/sup] Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
[sup]25[/sup] “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.[sup][f][/sup] [sup]26[/sup] Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
[sup]27[/sup] “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. [sup]28[/sup] Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
[sup]29[/sup] “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, [sup]30[/sup] and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’
[sup]31[/sup]
“Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. [sup]32[/sup] Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. [sup]33[/sup] Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? [sup]34[/sup] Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, [sup]35[/sup] that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. [sup]36[/sup] Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.