Why do we need priests?

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amadeus

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Honesty. Here are we, two servants of the most High God, and seemingly miles apart. It sounds to me like God is important to you. He is the most important thing in my life yet you continue to be very critical of me. At the age of 75 would you really expect me to change greatly simply because you don't understand me or even believe that I am wrong? As you may recall I grew up Catholic and learned about God first as a Catholic. I have never condemned Catholicism. I have too many very good memories from those years, but the truth is that God brought me away from there. You may not believe that but I most certainly do. My love for God has increased since then. I love Him too much to fail Him now!
 
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brakelite

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Soooo you wouldn't know you are in delusion when you articulate your interpretations of Scripture?

Soooo if none of us know when we are in delusion HOW will we ever know the truth of Scripture?

Curious Mary
If I am in a relationship with Christ, He gives me the understanding of scripture. The closer I grow to Him, the better my understanding of His word will be. If I go along a wrong path, He will bring me back to the right one.
KJV 2 Corinthians 6
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty
.
You think my Father would allow me to go astray? Do you think it possible that your reliance on man is maybe just a little misplaced when neither what they teach nor practice, is found to be in harmony with God's word?
 
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brakelite

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Soooo you wouldn't know you are in delusion when you articulate your interpretations of Scripture?

Soooo if none of us know when we are in delusion HOW will we ever know the truth of Scripture?

Curious Mary
I agree also with Amadeus... We find and discover truth... And expose error... By having a love for truth. Not a specific truth, but truth as a principle in the life. Truth regardles s of what personal cost it may engender if you were to embrace it. C countless people know in their hearts what truth is, but fall to lay hold of it because they don't want to lose their influence in the church... They don't want to disrupt tradition... It they don't want to damage a relationship with others. And trust me... Truth does that sometimes.
 
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ScottA

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I don't see the connection. :cool:

If you can explain away Matthew 18:18, Jesus giving authority to the men who were the elders of The Church, I will join you and your ilk.

Patient Mary
Having nothing to do with free will, my point was regarding your comment on authority in the church. In which case, if you were saying that the church leaders have greater authority than the congregation, then I wanted to say: that violates the scriptures giving authority to "the church" in general according to the spiritual gifts given to all, each having their own area of authority.
 
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Marymog

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The bible is pretty clear that ALL Christians are "saints" , Acts 26:10 Romans 1:7;
1 Corinthians 1:2 We are considered "holy" or set aside. "Saints" are not dead people who are to be prayed to, for or with...it is not in the written Word Of God. We saints on Earth (Christians) can certainly pray or intercede for one another, Jesus intercedes for us always as He IS the ONLY way to The Father. Can you show me where in the Word it tells us to ask dead people for prayer??
The Church teaches that the faithful on earth can be called saints
 

Marymog

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I agree also with Amadeus... We find and discover truth... And expose error... By having a love for truth. Not a specific truth, but truth as a principle in the life. Truth regardles s of what personal cost it may engender if you were to embrace it. C countless people know in their hearts what truth is, but fall to lay hold of it because they don't want to lose their influence in the church... They don't want to disrupt tradition... It they don't want to damage a relationship with others. And trust me... Truth does that sometimes.
We all have "truth". You do. I do. The CC does...the Methodist....SDA's etc etc

Sooooo why are all of our revealed truths different?

Back to the drawing board on your theory.

Let me help you: 1 Tim. 3:15
 

Marymog

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Having nothing to do with free will, my point was regarding your comment on authority in the church. In which case, if you were saying that the church leaders have greater authority than the congregation, then I wanted to say: that violates the scriptures giving authority to "the church" in general according to the spiritual gifts given to all, each having their own area of authority.
The Church does have authority over the congregation Matthew 18:17 .....It's in the bible...look it up.

Edit addition: Council of Jerusalem. The congregation didn't decide; the elders did.

Read your bible.
 

Marymog

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Honesty. Here are we, two servants of the most High God, and seemingly miles apart. It sounds to me like God is important to you. He is the most important thing in my life yet you continue to be very critical of me. At the age of 75 would you really expect me to change greatly simply because you don't understand me or even believe that I am wrong? As you may recall I grew up Catholic and learned about God first as a Catholic. I have never condemned Catholicism. I have too many very good memories from those years, but the truth is that God brought me away from there. You may not believe that but I most certainly do. My love for God has increased since then. I love Him too much to fail Him now!
I believe you are a good man who is sincerely seeking salvation.

I am only critical of the parts of you that say things that are opposite of Scripture. Other than that, I love you.

Mary
 
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Marymog

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Having nothing to do with free will, my point was regarding your comment on authority in the church. In which case, if you were saying that the church leaders have greater authority than the congregation, then I wanted to say: that violates the scriptures giving authority to "the church" in general according to the spiritual gifts given to all, each having their own area of authority.
Matthew 18 does have to do with free will. You have the free will to deny what is bound by man (elders of the Church) however you would be wrong to do that because it is also bound in heaven.....just like Jesus said.

You can use that free will to your own detriment. Using your free will does not cancel out the authority of the elders.
 

amadeus

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I believe you are a good man who is sincerely seeking salvation.

I am only critical of the parts of you that say things that are opposite of Scripture. Other than that, I love you.

Mary
Thank you for this Mary. I know you believe I say things that are opposed to scripture, but you know also that I disagree with that. We won't go into that again.
 
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Enoch111

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I'm not sure why this has to be an "either/or" situation. Why can a person not have their own relationship with deity AND have a person to help guide them in that relationship?
Now you are focusing on the ministry of the elders. According to the New Testament every church in every city was to have its own plurality of elders, and their functions were (a) oversight of the assembly (hence episkopos or bishops) and (b) shepherding of the assembly (hence the spiritual gift of pastor or poimen). Pastors were not only be be gifted preachers and teachers, but also have a genuine care for each member of the flock, just like an actual shepherd. These would be the spiritual guides of those within that church. But today's evangelical practice of having just one or two pastors is not according to Scripture, and as a result there is no one-on-one shepherding. Also, the office of bishop was created to have one man over several churches, which is not what God intended. Christ is the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls, and every church was directly accountable to Christ (Rev 1-3).

The term elder is a translation of presbuteros which means one who is a spiritually and chronologically mature individual (and who meets the qualifications of pastor/elder /bishop). But the term for priest is hiereus
and that is never applied to elders as an office. Because all Christians are within a Royal Priesthood (see 1 Peter 2:4-9).

The modern versions have mistranslated "kings and priests" as "a kingdom of priests" (Rev 1:6) but the kingdom is the Kingdom of God, with Christ as King of kings, and all God's children as kings and priests.
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (Rev 1:5,6)
 

Jane_Doe22

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Now you are focusing on the ministry of the elders. According to the New Testament every church in every city was to have its own plurality of elders, and their functions were (a) oversight of the assembly (hence episkopos or bishops) and (b) shepherding of the assembly (hence the spiritual gift of pastor or poimen). Pastors were not only be be gifted preachers and teachers, but also have a genuine care for each member of the flock, just like an actual shepherd. These would be the spiritual guides of those within that church. But today's evangelical practice of having just one or two pastors is not according to Scripture, and as a result there is no one-on-one shepherding. Also, the office of bishop was created to have one man over several churches, which is not what God intended. Christ is the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls, and every church was directly accountable to Christ (Rev 1-3).

The term elder is a translation of presbuteros which means one who is a spiritually and chronologically mature individual (and who meets the qualifications of pastor/elder /bishop). But the term for priest is hiereus
and that is never applied to elders as an office. Because all Christians are within a Royal Priesthood (see 1 Peter 2:4-9).

The modern versions have mistranslated "kings and priests" as "a kingdom of priests" (Rev 1:6) but the kingdom is the Kingdom of God, with Christ as King of kings, and all God's children as kings and priests.
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (Rev 1:5,6)
Putting aside the word semantics, this is the basic role of a priest. They're not to stand between you and God, but to help you come closer to God.
 

Enoch111

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Putting aside the word semantics, this is the basic role of a priest. They're not to stand between you and God, but to help you come closer to God.
If we wish to understand the role of priests as revealed in the OT, we must go to it and see whether or not that was their role. Their role was to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of the people of Israel:

And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the LORD commanded. (Lev 9:7)

To "make an atonement" was to offer a sacrifice with the shedding of the blood of clean, innocent animals, and the burning of their carcases. This function was terminated at the cross. Pastors are NOT sacrificing priests, and sacrificing priests were NOT pastors. But the Catholic Church has perverted this truth.

BTW this is not a matter of semantics but a proper understanding of the difference between priests and pastors, who are also called bishops.
 

Jane_Doe22

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If we wish to understand the role of priests as revealed in the OT, we must go to it and see whether or not that was their role. Their role was to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of the people of Israel:

And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the LORD commanded. (Lev 9:7)

To "make an atonement" was to offer a sacrifice with the shedding of the blood of clean, innocent animals, and the burning of their carcases. This function was terminated at the cross. Pastors are NOT sacrificing priests, and sacrificing priests were NOT pastors. But the Catholic Church has perverted this truth.
We don't live in OT times. The OP here is about the role of a priest in New Covenant times. Looking beyond Catholics specifically, the role priests play in pretty much every denotation is not animal sacrificers fulling Levitical Laws, but people in New Covenant times helping people best live New Covenant laws with the sacrifice of a broken heat and a contrite spirit. A New Covent priest doesn't stand between a person and Christ, but rather helps the person come closer to Christ.
 

Philip James

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Can you show me where in the Word it tells us to ask dead people for prayer??

Hello Nancy,

Our brothers and sisters aren't dead!

Have you not heard?

'He is the God of the living, not the dead..'

'he who believes in me will never die'

Do you believe this?

Peace be with you!
 

Giuliano

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Soooo when you THINK or FEEL you have the right idea they really could be wrong ideas? I wonder how long the Holy Spirit waits to correct you? I would think, out of love, the Holy Spirit would correct you pretty darn quick.
I do not expect to be perfect in this life and feel sorry for you or anyone else who thinks they are. Actually, I have been told by the Holy Spirit some things are not my business. I don't think my opinions matter either way in many areas. I don't think my opinions are that important. What matters is if I obey the Golden Rule and love God and my neighbor.
2 Timothy 3:16 is specifically addressed to a person Paul had ordained and is valid only for members of the Church hierarchy. It's pastoral epistle that was not addressed to the average layperson.

Introduction to the Pastoral Letters: 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus | Bible.org

Bible study Mary
Are you telling me I shouldn't read it? That only people ordained by the Catholic Church should read it?

I tell you, yes, he was writing to Timothy who was a bishop; and what he wrote was true for Timothy and parts of it are true also for laymen. Obviously parts of it are about church discipline, so I don't try to apply those in my personal life. If something is scripture, it is good for my reproof and correction. Whether it's good for correction and reproof for you, I'll leave up to you. Feel free to rip that book out of your Bible if you think it doesn't apply to you and has nothing to teach you. (Yes, I can be sarcastic.)
 
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Giuliano

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Soooo you wouldn't know you are in delusion when you articulate your interpretations of Scripture?

Soooo if none of us know when we are in delusion HOW will we ever know the truth of Scripture?

Curious Mary
Seek and ye shall find. If you think you already have all the truth, you will never be open for correction. If you are wrong, you'll never know it.
 
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Philip James

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If we wish to understand the role of priests as revealed in the OT, we must go to it and see whether or not that was their role. Their role was to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of the people of Israel:

And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the LORD commanded. (Lev 9:7)

To "make an atonement" was to offer a sacrifice with the shedding of the blood of clean, innocent animals, and the burning of their carcases. This function was terminated at the cross. Pastors are NOT sacrificing priests, and sacrificing priests were NOT pastors. But the Catholic Church has perverted this truth.

BTW this is not a matter of semantics but a proper understanding of the difference between priests and pastors, who are also called bishops.

You just wont give it up will you?

Paul says that 'we have an altar from which those who serve the temple have no right to eat'

What is offered on an altar?

The Eucharist is the pure offering foretold in Malachi 1:11

You are either a celebrant and partaker of that offering, or you are wandering in darkness...

Peace be with you.

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
 

Philip James

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If I am in a relationship with Christ, He gives me the understanding of scripture. The closer I grow to Him, the better my understanding of His word will be. If I go along a wrong path, He will bring me back to the right one.
KJV 2 Corinthians 6
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty
.
You think my Father would allow me to go astray? Do you think it possible that your reliance on man is maybe just a little misplaced when neither what they teach nor practice, is found to be in harmony with God's word?

Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
 

ScottA

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The Church does have authority over the congregation Matthew 18:17 .....It's in the bible...look it up.

Edit addition: Council of Jerusalem. The congregation didn't decide; the elders did.

Read your bible.
You have it almost backwards. That verse doesn't say the church has any authority at all, it says the congregation has a responsibility regarding repeat individual sinners:

Matthew 18:17
"17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."

...And that was my point: The church is the congregation...not the leaders.

PS, You have no business telling anyone to read their bible.
 
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