Teresa of Avila and Watering the Garden

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Episkopos

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LOL
You're arguing dogmatics!
Are you also blind?


I am trying to teach very basic things here...and hardly getting anywhere because of religious indoctrinations that cause pride and arrogance...and ultimately condemnation from God.

It is for the good of others that I post. So they can flee from that which displeases the Lord.
 

GodsGrace

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See the arrogance that indoctrination brings. Claim it and be judged by THAT standard. So if you fail at the law of God...you will be judged for it.

What about humility?

Pray about it.
We're all indoctrinated one way or the other.
Luckily for us, doctrine does not save us by Jesus does, if we follow Him.

I probably agree with you regarding this topic with WaitingforHim...
Maybe one day he'll agree too....
It's a journey.
 

GodsGrace

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I am trying to teach very basic things here...and hardly getting anywhere because of religious indoctrinations that cause pride and arrogance...and ultimately condemnation from God.

It is for the good of others that I post. So they can flee from that which displeases the Lord.
What displeases the Lord?
Why are you here TO TEACH, if you believe we are NOT TO TRUST MAN.
Are you not a man?

Are YOU not indoctrinated?
Maybe YOU have pride and arrogance,,,
thinking you could come here to teach others.
Have you taught our faith?
I have. I think I've been a Christian longer than your age.
Does that make me any better?

How can YOU know who here is more humble?
I've NEVER said I'm here to teach anyone.
Does that make ME more humble?
 

Episkopos

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We're all indoctrinated one way or the other.
Luckily for us, doctrine does not save us by Jesus does, if we follow Him.

I probably agree with you regarding this topic with WaitingforHim...
Maybe one day he'll agree too....
It's a journey.


That's not true. God is just as available today as before. The alternative to fellowship with God is to go to men to be indoctrinated into an excuse to NOT have to go directly to God.

So men declare themselves justified because they haven't yet encountered God.

Those who have encountered God don't claim anything for themselves. They leave the things of God...in the hands of God.
 

GodsGrace

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Justification is a judicial reckoning by faith, rather than a process.

Sanctification is both positional (believers are addressed as saints in the NT) but also a daily process as we follow the Lord Jesus.
Agreed.
Very good explanation.

Justification is immediate when we become born again.
Sanctification is an on-going process for our entire lives.
Glorification comes after death.
 

GodsGrace

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That's not true. God is just as available today as before. The alternative to fellowship with God is to go to men to be indoctrinated into an excuse to NOT have to go directly to God.

So men declare themselves justified because they haven't yet encountered God.

Those who have encountered God don't claim anything for themselves. They leave the things of God...in the hands of God.
Wha?
I have to read this again, but must go.
Can't seem to leave!
later.
 

Waiting on him

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Romans 3:27-31 KJV
[27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. [29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The law of faith is not arrogant.

Tecarta Bible
 
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farouk

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Romans 3:27-31 KJV
[27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. [29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The law of faith is not arrogant.

Tecarta Bible
Great passage there!

Romans is so searching.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Sanctification means doing the works of God. It's more closely related to HOLINESS than RIGHTEOUSNESS. We are either right with God or we are not...THIS IS JUSTIFICATION.
Once we are justified, we are RIGHT WITH GOD.

I agree, I think, but...some men lose their fear of God. Indoctrination causes them to not heed warnings that are given for their good. They begin to think that since God accepts them because they trust Him, that any subsequent mistrust is of no concern. But God saved Israel. They trusted Him enough to step out under a towering wall of water, but their later lack of trust caused them to be cut off. And we are told to fear God who can also cut us off if our hearts also become unbelieving. Yet indoctrinations cause men to say that He can no longer cut men off for later unbelief. He is patient, but we should not think later unbelief and disobedience of trust will be dealt with regarding us in a different way than it was with Israel in the desert. That would make God a respecter of us. We trust and He saves, just as Israel trusted and He saved. Israel then did not have that obedience of trust still, afterward. They did not continue in trust. They did not learn the obedience of trust. They did not stand firm in it. They abandoned trust in Him over and over in the desert.

The apostle carefully tried to lay this all out. He said, God saved Israel from death. WHO did God save? Wasn't it Israel? Yes, God saved Israel. But WHO did God later cut off and not allow to enter? Wasn't it Israel, those He had already saved? And WHY did He cut off those He had saved? Wasn't it because they didn't abide/continue in trust?

And despite the apostle carefully laying it out for us, we insist we can't be cut off for not continuing and remaining in trust. The apostle could not have BEEN more carefully overt, and yet we insist, because of indoctrination, that it cannot happen. WE can collect more than enough for the day. WE can have the stockpile Israel desired. WE can not have the obedience of daily trust. WE can do exactly like Israel, but we will be treated differently. Right?
 

Waiting on him

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I agree, I think, but...some men lose their fear of God. Indoctrination causes them to not heed warnings that are given for their good. They begin to think that since God accepts them because they trust Him, that any subsequent mistrust is of no concern. But God saved Israel. They trusted Him enough to step out under a towering wall of water, but their later lack of trust caused them to be cut off. And we are told to fear God who can also cut us off if our hearts also become unbelieving. Yet indoctrinations cause men to say that He can no longer cut men off for later unbelief. He is patient, but we should not think later unbelief and disobedience of trust will be dealt with regarding us in a different way than it was with Israel in the desert. That would make God a respecter of us. We trust and He saves, just as Israel trusted and He saved. Israel then did not have that obedience of trust still, afterward. They did not continue in trust. They did not learn the obedience of trust. They did not stand firm in it. They abandoned trust in Him over and over in the desert.

The apostle carefully tried to lay this all out. He said, God saved Israel from death. WHO did God save? Wasn't it Israel? Yes, God saved Israel. But WHO did God later cut off and not allow to enter? Wasn't it Israel, those He had already saved? And WHY did He cut off those He had saved? Wasn't it because they didn't abide/continue in trust?

And despite the apostle carefully laying it out for us, we insist we can't be cut off for not continuing and remaining in trust. The apostle could not have BEEN more carefully overt, and yet we insist, because of indoctrination, that it cannot happen. WE can collect more than enough for the day. WE can have the stockpile Israel desired. WE can not have the obedience of daily trust. WE can do exactly like Israel, but we will be treated differently. Right?
They didn’t enter in because of unbelief.
They had plenty of works (menstral rags)
 

stunnedbygrace

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They didn’t enter in because of unbelief.
They had plenty of works (menstral rags)

What works did they have in the desert? They began well, in trust. That trust led to their being saved from death. Then they went to the desert and refused to continue in that trust. What works did they do in the desert that were rags?
 

Waiting on him

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What works did they have in the desert? They began well, in trust. That trust led to their being saved from death. Then they went to the desert and refused to continue in that trust. What works did they do in the desert that were rags?
Your joking right?
 

Waiting on him

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What works did they have in the desert? They began well, in trust. That trust led to their being saved from death. Then they went to the desert and refused to continue in that trust. What works did they do in the desert that were rags?
Please, put man on a shelf for a while. And study independently. God has much to teach. You began in faith.
 
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