Christianity's love of the world will be its downfall.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Acolyte

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2018
370
515
93
Midwest/usa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When Jesus was asked questions about marriage he went straight back to the defining passages in Genesis that say that marriage is between male and female and is meant to be life long. He saw the Creation accounts in Genesis as authoritative in His day. And what is authoritative for Jesus is authoritative for Christians also. While Jesus did not specifically teach on homosexuality, His establishment of the Genesis passages as the fundamental passages on marriage (even more fundamental than the Law) leaves no doubt as to the outcome.
The Church exists to save people, not to bless the means of their damnation. No marriage can be sanctioned by the Church if the very basis of the marriage involves acts that put the couple outside of eternal salvation. No matter what our society may legislate, the law of God is clear—that a marriage is not a godly marriage if it is a same sex union.

@shnarkle this is a hard subject. Emotions get involved, still, in my heart, our Father has the first and last word and I believe Him.

Now excuse me while I keep working on the plank in my eye. (divorced and still struggling with smoking)

Oh yeah, the thought of an openly gay president, and "we" the people voting him in makes me physically sick. And you may be right, our loving others as ourselves could be our downfall, praying more Christians will understand the responsibility that goes with it.

Blessings
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Windmillcharge

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2017
2,934
1,823
113
68
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Given that there is no such fallacy as the "basic fallacy", the title and content of the OP is still valid.



You just claimed that all Christians compromise, then immediately contradicted yourself by claiming that it "does not mean that All have compromised". When your witness fails, there can be no evangelization. How can one bear witness to what they never saw to begin with?

So my logic is poor.
It is still true that some Christians make more of a mess of there lifestyle as Christians than others do.

Even compromised Christians are a witness to the grace and mercy of God.

Fortunetly it isn't down to our eloquence, reasoning ability or our love for others that matters. God uses our witness to bring people to him, often inspite of our witness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus and Acolyte

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
No I don't. It's a parable regarding trusting in mankind/satan's laws and ways.
A parable is a type of figure, but Jesus isn't presenting a parable in this case. He's presenting the figure Hypocatastasis. which means that there is an implied resemblance between two things, one of which has been put down underneath or out of sight.

So we can see now that it isn't necessarily the case that recognizing a figure of speech necessitates it being contrived. There are other options besides "reading scripture literally as God's word, and not man-made theology."
 

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
I don't agree with yours.

1 Corinthians 6:19 is talking about the temple of the Holy Ghost, which is in us believers.

Yep, and it's the same exact thing Christ says when he points out that we must worship in Spirit and truth. He literally contrasts it with the temple in Jerusalem!

2 Thessalonian 2 is talking about the upcoming temple of God that will be built by Jews (why it's called the "temple of God"), and which the beast/antichrist will sit in.

When one rightly divides the word, it should be obvious that no temple built with human hands is a temple of God. When we put ourselves first, the spirit of antichrist reigns in our hearts.

you're telling me I believe differently, when it's you who just claimed that believers can do what God is able to do...the creator of the Heavens on the Earth is the same as believers He created. That's an unbelievably arrogant statement, and possibly against God.

If you don't believe Christ's own words, I can't help you. He plainly points out that "with God all things are possible". He never provides any caveats or exceptions. He never follows up with, "oh, except of course keeping God's commandments which is impossible even with God"



Jesus did not say you can't work for money and God. Jesus said you will serve one or the other; you will love one and despise the other. One can work for money and not love money, while serving God and loving God.

Spoken like a true modern day Pharisee. Do you despise money? Mammon is the personification of money. You clearly do not despise money at all. You do not work for what you despise. You are contradicting yourself.

despise
[dəˈspīz]
VERB
  1. feel contempt or a deep repugnance for.
    "he despised himself for being selfish"
    synonyms:
    detest · hate · loathe · abhor · abominate · execrate · regard with contempt · feel contempt for · shrink from · be repelled by · not be able to bear/stand/stomach · find intolerable · deplore · dislike · scorn · disdain · slight · look down on · pour/heap scorn on · deride · scoff at · jeer at · sneer at · mock · revile · spurn · shun · 

You are clearly not repelled by money. You do not spurn or shun money. You are contradicting yourself. There is no effective difference between serving and working for money. Again, Christ is clear you can serve only one. He clearly points out that you will not worry about where your next meal is coming from when you have no money.

for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth...
Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment...O ye of little faith? 29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth....And they all with one consent began to make excuse...whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he CANNOT be my disciple." - Luke 12:15,22;28-33;14:18,33

only Jesus Christ's opinion of me counts.

See above.

you say you still have money while saying I'm the hypocrit.

Yep. You don't seem to comprehend the meaning of the word itself. I see what I'm doing; you don't. That's what makes you a hypocrite. You justify your way which Christ points out is "an abomination".

Jesus covers my sins that I ask forgiveness for.

Right, and you're not asking for forgiveness for serving Mammon. He will oblige you and allow you to take your rewards right now.


What was hypocritical, is you saying you are a Christian but you think that Jesus doesn't cover your sins and that you are probably going to hell.

I never said any such thing. Where did I say I am a Christian? Where did I claim that Jesus doesn't cover my sins?

I haven't engaged in dishonest commerce. Yes, I agree, the system is dishonest, but I am not. I didn't create the central bank and I don't help run it.

You participate in the beast system knowing full well what you're doing is dishonest. It is fraud. It's nothing but a glorified Ponzi scheme, and anyone who knows this and continues to participate is either a fraud or a fool.

I don't rely on money for life. I rely on Jesus for life. And when I die, and I will, I will enter into eternal life in Heaven with Jesus. So my life here on earth is very short, and temporary, and I seek not survive as long as I can. Same as every other believer in Jesus Christ who covers their sins.

Keep telling yourself that as you continue to rely upon money to get by. The sad irony here is that you've undoubtedly never encountered anyone who relies exclusively upon Christ. Seeing is believing, and you've never witnessed it firsthand. It's a convicting experience that results in immediate revulsion and self loathing. Repentance is a process, but if one is in denial, it will never happen.



With God's judgment and wrath falling down upon Earth and earth-dwellers, via the 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 vials, it will not be anti-climatic.

When one is oblivious to those judgments, it will be a shock to finally wake up after the fact when it is too late.
 

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A parable is a type of figure, but Jesus isn't presenting a parable in this case. He's presenting the figure Hypocatastasis. which means that there is an implied resemblance between two things, one of which has been put down underneath or out of sight.

So we can see now that it isn't necessarily the case that recognizing a figure of speech necessitates it being contrived. There are other options besides "reading scripture literally as God's word, and not man-made theology."

I disagree that Jesus isn't presenting a parable in this case. A parable is defined as "A parable is a type of analogy", from Greek (parabolē), meaning "comparison, illustration, analogy".

He is comparing His words to the words of the Pharisees, and to not follow the words they use, the Earthly teachings, and to follow His words, the Heavenly teachings, since he said "beware" regarding their "rising up" prior to that.

A "Hypocatastasis is a figure of speech that declares or implies a resemblance". Jesus is not implying nor stating that His words resemble the Pharisess, which is why he says to beware of them. It's the opposite of resemblance. It's differentiation between His teachings and the Pharisees' teachings.

Perhaps it is meant to be read literally, and you failed to understand that Jesus was saying "don't listen to them and their ways"...
 

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Marriage is for children, not sexual pleasure. Gay people cannot create what God intended. They will try but fail. It is the nature of sin to justify how one feels.
Intimacy is not necessarily sexual, though unfortunately in the world that is all they know it appears. Most marriages are not founded on sex, that is just the beginning.

This is a good start. It's much better than the parroted "marriage is between a man and a woman", yet it still doesn't go far enough to protect the church from being forced into marrying homosexuals, or going underground, and disappearing from public view.

The church must clearly stated what it has historically always been doing. The problem is that most churches no longer understand the original purpose of sanctioning marriage.
 

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
I disagree that Jesus isn't presenting a parable in this case. A parable is defined as "A parable is a type of analogy", from Greek (parabolē), meaning "comparison, illustration, analogy".

He is comparing His words to the words of the Pharisees, and to not follow the words they use, the Earthly teachings, and to follow His words, the Heavenly teachings, since he said "beware" regarding their "rising up" prior to that.

A "Hypocatastasis is a figure of speech that declares or implies a resemblance". Jesus is not implying nor stating that His words resemble the Pharisess, which is why he says to beware of them. It's the opposite of resemblance. It's differentiation between His teachings and the Pharisees' teachings.

Perhaps it is meant to be read literally, and you failed to understand that Jesus was saying "don't listen to them and their ways"...

Now you're the one who is putting words where they don't belong. A parable is a continued simile. It's a story. Jesus is not presensting a story at all. Leaven is being compared to the doctrines of the Pharisees, not the Pharisees themselves. You got the message, but not the correct figure.
 

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yep, and it's the same exact thing Christ says when he points out that we must worship in Spirit and truth. He literally contrasts it with the temple in Jerusalem!

When one rightly divides the word, it should be obvious that no temple built with human hands is a temple of God. When we put ourselves first, the spirit of antichrist reigns in our hearts.

That does not detract from the fact that God's word, through the writings of the Bible, calls it (the future temple) "the temple of God".

I agree, it's not the temple Jesus spoke of: of Him the dwelleth within us.

If you don't believe Christ's own words, I can't help you. He plainly points out that "with God all things are possible". He never provides any caveats or exceptions. He never follows up with, "oh, except of course keeping God's commandments which is impossible even with God"

I do believe Christ's own words. And I'm not looking for your help. I was just looking to converse.

Spoken like a true modern day Pharisee. Do you despise money? Mammon is the personification of money. You clearly do not despise money at all. You do not work for what you despise. You are contradicting yourself.

Yes, I despise money. If you knew me as others in my life do, you would know this about me. Someone's reply to me regarding my hatred of money was "you don't have to like it, but you have to respect it".

You are unbelievable arrogant to suggest that I don't hate money, when you have no idea how my life has been or what my views are. I am telling you now (if you didn't catch it before): I hate money.

Yes, I do work for what I despise. As I said, one can hate money and love God while working for money and serving God. If you don't agree, ok.

I'm not contradicting myself, I stated it plainly. You have no idea if I gave away my possessions, if I have my own home, if I've ever chosen to be homeless, yet you are talking as if you know me. You are unbelievably arrogant.

You are clearly not repelled by money. You do not spurn or shun money. You are contradicting yourself. There is no effective difference between serving and working for money. Again, Christ is clear you can serve only one. He clearly points out that you will not worry about where your next meal is coming from when you have no money.

I am repelled by this world too, yet I haven't killed myself. Does that mean I clearly don't hate this world?

How do you know if I don't spurn or shun money? How do you know if I haven't given all of it away? You have no idea and yet you speak as if you know. Don't you know what arrogance is? Don't you know what ignorance is?

I disagree that there is no difference in serving and working for money. If I were to focus my life on making money, to gain as much as possible, then I would agree with you in that I serve and work for money. If money isn't my focus, I am not serving it.

Serving money means to make it a central point in one's life, to focus on it. I do not do that, by evidence of how I've chosen to live my life.

You have a serious issue with thinking you know what I've done, what I've chosen, simply because I "work for money", when I work.

See above.

Only Jesus' opinion of me counts to me.

Yep. You don't seem to comprehend the meaning of the word itself. I see what I'm doing; you don't. That's what makes you a hypocrite. You justify your way which Christ points out is "an abomination".

Now I don't know what "money" means? Heh, that's funny.

Christ said, in 1 Timothy 6:10 "the love of money is the root of all evil; which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."[/QUOTE]

I do not love money, for the umpteenth time. I do not covet after it. Thus, I am inline with Jesus' teachings.

Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

I hate mammon/money, and love God. I do not serve mammon/money, I serve God.

Therefore, I uphold Jesus' teachings.

Right, and you're not asking for forgiveness for serving Mammon. He will oblige you and allow you to take your rewards right now.

Sacasm, mixed with ignorance and arrogance from you. Wow, that's a way to conduct yourself...

How do you have any idea what I have and have not asked forgiveness for? How can you possibly make the claim "you're not asking for forgiveness" about anything?

I never said any such thing. Where did I say I am a Christian?

When you stated this: "God commands us to have no other gods before him", I took the "us" as meaning that you were a Christian. Are you not a Christian?

Where did I claim that Jesus doesn't cover my sins?

When you stated this: "probably going to hell". You aren't going to hell if Jesus covers your sins.

You participate in the beast system knowing full well what you're doing is dishonest. It is fraud. It's nothing but a glorified Ponzi scheme, and anyone who knows this and continues to participate is either a fraud or a fool.

You are combining my participation in that system as being complicit in that system. I agree that the system is dishonest. If in my participation of that system I am honest in my dealings with it, that doesn't make me dishonest alone.

And by your measure, almost every church and almost all congregants are wrong for existing in this world. Should we not have churces (run by money, paid for by money) now too?

Keep telling yourself that as you continue to rely upon money to get by. The sad irony here is that you've undoubtedly never encountered anyone who relies exclusively upon Christ. Seeing is believing, and you've never witnessed it firsthand. It's a convicting experience that results in immediate revulsion and self loathing. Repentance is a process, but if one is in denial, it will never happen.

Again, I do not rely on money to get by. I rely on Jesus to get by.

Who says I don't self loath? You cannot make the claim that I don't hate myself. Another unbelievably arrogant statement from you.
When one is oblivious to those judgments, it will be a shock to finally wake up after the fact when it is too late.

Yes, I agree, for some it will be.
 

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Now you're the one who is putting words where they don't belong. A parable is a continued simile. It's a story. Jesus is not presensting a story at all. Leaven is being compared to the doctrines of the Pharisees, not the Pharisees themselves. You got the message, but not the correct figure.

You are stating that that one verse in Luke 12 is not part of the overall context of all of Luke 12. Luke 12 begins "In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."

When he says "first of all", that means it is part of more to come; that there is more to come. That is only the first thing to say of many things, therefore the context isn't finished with that single verse.

The same idea for language can be found in the " The Parable of the Leaven
(Judges 20:18-23; 2 Samuel 2:12-32; 2 Chronicles 13:4-19; Luke 13:20-21)

33He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and mixed into three measures of flour, until all of it was leavened.”"

To think that Jesus would use the parable in Matthew 13:33 involving "leaven that a woman took and mixed..." and not use "leaven of the Pharisees" as a parable doesn't make sense.

Also, I stated "He is comparing His words to the words of the Pharisees", and you said "compared to the doctrines of the Pharisees" - the doctrines of the Pharisees are their teachings via words.
 
Last edited:

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,446
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So my logic is poor.
It is still true that some Christians make more of a mess of there lifestyle as Christians than others do.

Even compromised Christians are a witness to the grace and mercy of God.

Fortunetly it isn't down to our eloquence, reasoning ability or our love for others that matters. God uses our witness to bring people to him, often inspite of our witness.
The only really flawless witness was Jesus himself, but God does use others as witnesses because even in their stumbling their hearts remain right before God. By this I mean a person serving God may sin but then even before men he does not try to excuse himself or lay the blame on someone else. He accepts the blame and the punishment involved. That too is a good witness. This is seen clearly in the difference between King Saul and King David. Both sinned terribly, but David acknowledged his sin and stood ready to take the punishment which was death for adultery or murder. Saul on the other hand tried to justify his disobedience and then to shift the blame to the people. God definitely sees the difference and so do people who are really paying attention.
 

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
That does not detract from the fact that God's word, through the writings of the Bible, calls it (the future temple) "the temple of God".

I agree, it's not the temple Jesus spoke of: of Him the dwelleth within us.



I do believe Christ's own words. And I'm not looking for your help. I was just looking to converse.



Yes, I despise money. If you knew me as others in my life do, you would know this about me. Someone's reply to me regarding my hatred of money was "you don't have to like it, but you have to respect it".

You are unbelievable arrogant to suggest that I don't hate money, when you have no idea how my life has been or what my views are. I am telling you now (if you didn't catch it before): I hate money.

Yes, I do work for what I despise. As I said, one can hate money and love God while working for money and serving God. If you don't agree, ok.

I'm not contradicting myself, I stated it plainly. You have no idea if I gave away my possessions, if I have my own home, if I've ever chosen to be homeless, yet you are talking as if you know me. You are unbelievably arrogant.



I am repelled by this world too, yet I haven't killed myself. Does that mean I clearly don't hate this world?

How do you know if I don't spurn or shun money? How do you know if I haven't given all of it away? You have no idea and yet you speak as if you know. Don't you know what arrogance is? Don't you know what ignorance is?

I disagree that there is no difference in serving and working for money. If I were to focus my life on making money, to gain as much as possible, then I would agree with you in that I serve and work for money. If money isn't my focus, I am not serving it.

Serving money means to make it a central point in one's life, to focus on it. I do not do that, by evidence of how I've chosen to live my life.

You have a serious issue with thinking you know what I've done, what I've chosen, simply because I "work for money", when I work.



Only Jesus' opinion of me counts to me.



Now I don't know what "money" means? Heh, that's funny.

Christ said, in 1 Timothy 6:10 "the love of money is the root of all evil; which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

I do not love money, for the umpteenth time. I do not covet after it. Thus, I am inline with Jesus' teachings.

Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

I hate mammon/money, and love God. I do not serve mammon/money, I serve God.

Therefore, I uphold Jesus' teachings.



Sacasm, mixed with ignorance and arrogance from you. Wow, that's a way to conduct yourself...

How do you have any idea what I have and have not asked forgiveness for? How can you possibly make the claim "you're not asking for forgiveness" about anything?



When you stated this: "God commands us to have no other gods before him", I took the "us" as meaning that you were a Christian. Are you not a Christian?



When you stated this: "probably going to hell". You aren't going to hell if Jesus covers your sins.



You are combining my participation in that system as being complicit in that system. I agree that the system is dishonest. If in my participation of that system I am honest in my dealings with it, that doesn't make me dishonest alone.

And by your measure, almost every church and almost all congregants are wrong for existing in this world. Should we not have churces (run by money, paid for by money) now too?



Again, I do not rely on money to get by. I rely on Jesus to get by.

Who says I don't self loath? You cannot make the claim that I don't hate myself. Another unbelievably arrogant statement from you.


Yes, I agree, for some it will be.[/QUOTE]

Looks like I hit a nerve. "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much" Jesus drew the line on the first cent you choose to hold onto. He didn't say to forsake some, but to forsake "all". Let's face it, your philosophy with regards to money is no different than Satan. You can despise Satan, and even serve him without loving him. Good to know there's that fine line that allows us all to serve Satan while we live under his reign. It's no coincidence that Jesus chose to contrast money with God because he knows who we all really rely upon. Perhaps someday you might actually begin to believe your own lies. I'm not buying any of it.

The only difference between you and me is that I can see what I'm doing is wrong while you justify yourself. Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. Luke 16:15
 

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
You are stating that that one verse in Luke 12 is not part of the overall context of all of Luke 12. Luke 12 begins "In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."

When he says "first of all", that means it is part of more to come; that there is more to come. That is only the first thing to say of many things, therefore the context isn't finished with that single verse.

The same idea for language can be found in the " The Parable of the Leaven
(Judges 20:18-23; 2 Samuel 2:12-32; 2 Chronicles 13:4-19; Luke 13:20-21)

33He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and mixed into three measures of flour, until all of it was leavened.”"

To think that Jesus would use the parable in Matthew 13:33 involving "leaven that a woman took and mixed..." and not use "leaven of the Pharisees" as a parable doesn't make sense.

Also, I stated "He is comparing His words to the words of the Pharisees", and you said "compared to the doctrines of the Pharisees" - the doctrines of the Pharisees are their teachings via words.

The bottom line is that he's using a different figure. He's not relating a parable. Go ahead tell us the whole parable if you think you can come up with one. let's hear it.
 

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Looks like I hit a nerve. "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much" Jesus drew the line on the first cent you choose to hold onto. He didn't say to forsake some, but to forsake "all". Let's face it, your philosophy with regards to money is no different than Satan. You can despise Satan, and even serve him without loving him. Good to know there's that fine line that allows us all to serve Satan while we live under his reign. It's no coincidence that Jesus chose to contrast money with God because he knows who we all really rely upon. Perhaps someday you might actually begin to believe your own lies. I'm not buying any of it.

The only difference between you and me is that I can see what I'm doing is wrong while you justify yourself. Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. Luke 16:15

The only nerve you've hit is when you tell me what I do and do not believe. Your "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much" is only me answering your questions, statements, and accusations. Now if I'm on here starting threads about, then I'd be protesting too much.

And then when I answer you point for point, you now reply with some generalized response, rather than answering my questions.

Na, I'll stick with my views. You can stick with yours. Don't believe me all you want.

So, you never answered my question: Are you a Christian?

I'm not justifying myself, I'm defending myself from your false accusations and ignorant claims; there's a difference in case you can't tell.
 
Last edited:

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The bottom line is that he's using a different figure. He's not relating a parable. Go ahead tell us the whole parable if you think you can come up with one. let's hear it.

Do not trust in earthly teachings and mankind; trust in Heavenly teachings; since He is from Heaven, trust in Him.
 

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Do not trust in earthly teachings and mankind; trust in Heavenly teachings; since He is from Heaven, trust in Him.
That's not a parable. Those are instructions. Why not just present the parable as it is presented in the text itself?
 

4Jesus

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
698
459
63
Philly
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That's not a parable. Those are instructions. Why not just present the parable as it is presented in the text itself?

I think he is presenting a parable with the whole text, that's why he says "first of all". One piece of information of the whole...

Also, you said it yourself "do you think it's about bread"...read literally, it would be about bread; read as a parable, it's about not listening to earthly teachers and mankind...
 
Last edited:

FollowHim

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2019
2,171
1,047
113
64
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
This is a good start. It's much better than the parroted "marriage is between a man and a woman", yet it still doesn't go far enough to protect the church from being forced into marrying homosexuals, or going underground, and disappearing from public view.

The church must clearly stated what it has historically always been doing. The problem is that most churches no longer understand the original purpose of sanctioning marriage.

If any congregation does not understand what marriage is, they have already lost their focus.
I actually have more confidence that most know what marriage is, and the reality of falling in love and celebrating setting up families is deeply embedded in us biologically and culturally. It is like people talk about not being faithful to a partner and having an open marriage, until they discover their hearts actually cannot go along with this reality.

Our problem is simply if a church is a bunch of strangers who partake in ceremonies, that is not what a christian community actually is.
It is like saying a marriage exists because a piece of paper says you are married. The problem in our society is wealth and boredom, which is eroding the realities of our relationships and commitments, so children can be brought up by others, and we still think we are parents, or we can go to church and live how we want and still be called believers. It simply does not work. God bless you.
 

shnarkle

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2013
1,689
569
113
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
If any congregation does not understand what marriage is, they have already lost their focus.

So true! They've lost the culture war as well. The church is following rather than leading.

I actually have more confidence that most know what marriage is, and the reality of falling in love and celebrating setting up families is deeply embedded in us biologically and culturally.

Here again, this makes no distinction between traditional marriage and the ever evolving modern day equivalents.

It is like people talk about not being faithful to a partner and having an open marriage, until they discover their hearts actually cannot go along with this reality.

And yet there are plenty who have no problem with that scenario either. Regardless of whether people can handle it or not is beside the point.

Our problem is simply if a church is a bunch of strangers who partake in ceremonies, that is not what a christian community actually is.

Do you mean that isn't what a Christian community should be? It seems to me that is precisely what Christian communities have become.

It is like saying a marriage exists because a piece of paper says you are married.

The fact is that it is that piece of paper that documents to the State that one is married.

The problem in our society is wealth and boredom, which is eroding the realities of our relationships and commitments, so children can be brought up by others, and we still think we are parents, or we can go to church and live how we want and still be called believers. It simply does not work. God bless you.

That's definitely a problem, but wealth and boredom also tend to lead to abandoning marriage and family altogether. Poverty can have the same effect as well, and the US is a debtor nation; the biggest in the history of this planet. The wealth is all on paper, and it is all borrowed.