Teresa of Avila and Watering the Garden

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GodsGrace

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Yes I have. Hence my posts.

So much the typical thread like this. Dodging, deflection, disparagement, but I can't think of anyone who says that we have anything to do with our obtaining either justification, holiness, or righteousness from themselves except episkopos. It seems the rest pretty much agree that we simply believe in Jesus, and God supplies everything from there. We go along with Him, but that's it.

I'm not seeing anyone declaring anything of themselves other than faith and rebirth. And we then go on to talk about what the Bible says about the reborn.

Episkopos, and you, I suppose, in that you seem to agree with and support his doctrine, appear to me to be presenting the idea that Jesus gets us started, but we take over. At least until He takes over. I have to admit it gets more strange the more you examine his ideas. But that's what I'm seeing in this thread.

As if we get saved, but we're not really saved until we get ourselves saved.

Some have different ideas of what holiness and righteousness are. Myself, all comes from God, and there is no "getting our own righteousness through being good in the flesh". I personally find that absurd. There is nothing good resident in the flesh.

If it's from the Spirit, it's from God, not us. If it's from the flesh, whatever we think, God declares such to be, well, filthy unmentionables.

Much love!
Marks, I don't care for that expression that you're thinking of above which comes from Isaiah about the filthy rags.

Here's why: It makes it sound like that if we do anything for God we're trying to get our own righteousness,,,IOW,,,this verse is always used to show that our works are worth nothing.

Which I agree with BEFORE we're saved because our works do not save us.

AFTER we're saved and we are made RIGHT WITH GOD (righteous through Him) THEN
God appreciates all our good works or deeds.

Saved persons are clean...NOT unclean as Isaiah 64 states.
John 15:3

Other than this, I do agree with you.
 

stunnedbygrace

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No one should be here to teach...
No one here has a PhD after their name...
No one here is any more spiritual than I am. (or any one of us).

I was just going to let this post go, but it seemed so nonsensical that I couldn't.

Does God require a person to have a
PhD in order to share what they have learned or seen from Him?

I'm not trying to be rude and am sorry if it comes across that way, but this made no sense to me.

To have a PhD means you are taught by men. I don't think any of the apostles had a PhD...

And whether a man does or doesn't, its smart to look it up for yourself and ask for Gods help in understanding what you read, to see if a man speaks according to scripture.

If I had a nickel, as they say, for every time in my life I accepted what someone said without really examining it, I would be well off. But if your entire framework has mistakes, it seems an almost insurmountable problem, as men seem to want to defend forts and are loathe to tear them down.

But there is that occasional man who will insist and persist that if it can't be fit in, it has to be discarded. He won't be liked. He is never liked. Religious and indoctrinated men can't stand him and they will always follow him around to argue with him. But men who are puzzled at some of what he says will nevertheless seek him out in private because they see he is speaking rightly even though some of what he says is hard for them to grasp.

The mistake is usually to neglect the weightier matters when building.
 

stunnedbygrace

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You speak about fear a lot ( I think ).
How much fear should we have of God?
Are you married?
Do you fear your husband or do you do what He likes out of love for Him?
Or a parent,,,or a brother,,,(if not married).

I think we should have a healthy respect for God...
but I don't think we should fear Him.
Jesus said we are Children of God.
2 corinthians 12:18

I don't even know what to say to this. Its another thing that I can't wrap my mind around. It puzzles me when anyone says we should not fear God. I think indoctrination, once again, causes men to be harmed. You can't do away with the dialectic on this, as always.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I am sorry I was cruel. That was uncalled for. Getting off here. Can’t change your mind ...but I really do not understand ...

You answered in a peculiar way when you said: religion says she is damned. When pushed into a corner on the matter, you refused to be her judge. I cried and rejoiced at that.
 

stunnedbygrace

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So you don’t understand it but take it as the word and therefore has to be true. Do you think His righteousness in “seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness” “God’s righteousness” established (planted)falls short of His Holiness and His Holiness rules over His righteousness in the age to come?

I know this is taking it back many pages ago but, I don't think you understood what I was saying.

Practically speaking, what does seeking His righteousness look like? How do you, personally, seek Gods righteousness? Do you just pray, please give me your righteousness?

God is righteous, yes, He always does everything right. He never makes a mistake. But does that mean we then seek and ask to never make a mistake? Is that what seeking after Gods righteousness is?

Or does it possibly mean, seek after what God says makes a man righteous, seek after the righteousness that is by faith (trust).
 

GodsGrace

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I was just going to let this post go, but it seemed so nonsensical that I couldn't.

Does God require a person to have a
PhD in order to share what they have learned or seen from Him?

I'm not trying to be rude and am sorry if it comes across that way, but this made no sense to me.

To have a PhD means you are taught by men. I don't think any of the apostles had a PhD...
So are you saying the Apostles had NO ONE to teach them?
Or would you agree that they had the BEST holder of a PhD ever?

Were YOU born with infused knowledge just like Adam and Eve were?
Or did you have to learn?
You mean the Holy Spirit just sat down with you and taught you about everything?
If this how you learned about the Trinity?
Is man a dichotomy or a trichotomy?
If you don't care, you will, once again, not understand some scripture.

And whether a man does or doesn't, its smart to look it up for yourself and ask for Gods help in understanding what you read, to see if a man speaks according to scripture.
I told you that you should be like the Bareans.
Maybe you don't read my posts really well.

If I had a nickel, as they say, for every time in my life I accepted what someone said without really examining it, I would be well off. But if your entire framework has mistakes, it seems an almost insurmountable problem, as men seem to want to defend forts and are loathe to tear them down.

But there is that occasional man who will insist and persist that if it can't be fit in, it has to be discarded. He won't be liked. He is never liked. Religious and indoctrinated men can't stand him and they will always follow him around to argue with him. But men who are puzzled at some of what he says will nevertheless seek him out in private because they see he is speaking rightly even though some of what he says is hard for them to grasp.

The mistake is usually to neglect the weightier matters when building.
I suggest you don't listen to ANY MAN,,,including your mentor that is on this forum.
I've told you that HE also is a MAN, and doesn't even have a PhD !!

And yes, I DO believe those that have spent years studying the bible know more than we do.

And I also believe that you should stop writing to me if I speak nonsense.
 
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GodsGrace

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I don't even know what to say to this. Its another thing that I can't wrap my mind around. It puzzles me when anyone says we should not fear God. I think indoctrination, once again, causes men to be harmed. You can't do away with the dialectic on this, as always.
Read my post about fearing God again.
OR NOT. Your choice.

Keep fearing Him...
That will make for a SUPER GREAT RELATIONSHIP.

Make sure to fear your
father
brother
husband

too. It only makes sense.
 

GodsGrace

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@Episkopos

I think what you're telling SBG is horrible and the likes you give her do not help her to understand the word.

How about making it as simple as Jesus made it?
 

Episkopos

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I know this is taking it back many pages ago but, I don't think you understood what I was saying.

Practically speaking, what does seeking His righteousness look like? How do you, personally, seek Gods righteousness? Do you just pray, please give me your righteousness?

God is righteous, yes, He always does everything right. He never makes a mistake. But does that mean we then seek and ask to never make a mistake? Is that what seeking after Gods righteousness is?

Or does it possibly mean, seek after what God says makes a man righteous, seek after the righteousness that is by faith (trust).


Seeking God's righteousness is not to try to take on His righteousness for ourselves. That is a selfish quest. And we cannot take on His righteousness anyway...it is God that lays His Spirit on us so that we have that kind of authority....to become His ministers and ambassadors on earth.

But the primary purpose of exposure to God's righteousness is to be inspected by God...to be subject to HIS judgment. To hear from Him. To experience His presence and will.

Also...we are the righteousness of God in Him. So then more mysteriously we are to look for personal encounters with saints who bring that level of life and judgment with them. Didn't Cornelius send for Peter? Didn't Cornelius receive Peter as he would the Lord? Didn't God back up His minister (Peter) with a divine encounter for Cornelius and his household?

It is like in 1 Tim. 3:1 where we are to "covet" an episkopay....His visitation. Here again we can receive this visitation through a minister of Christ...OR a direct visitation from God.

God doesn't think like us. An encounter with one of His messengers is basically like an encounter with Him IF it is received by faith. Receive a prophet in the name of a prophet....and get his reward. So we can seek through such a visitation as the receiving of the same thing that sent him to you. God does work through intermediaries. This is called...discerning the body. Or...discerning God in (through) His body.

Of course the minister must actually be in the Spirit (or at least led by Him) and have that level of spiritual encounter himself. I'm not speaking of they who have taken labels to themselves...but actual humble ministers of God...that few would be able to discern. God is a God who hides Himself...and His minsters are so often obscure. God has a different standard to the world.

So then to inspect others one must first be inspected. 1 Tim. 3 explains the character of such a man in righteousness...if not his encounter with God in holiness.

So our attitude in seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness is not a one dimensional pursuit of looking for a supernatural entrance only into Zion...but also it is also an awareness of God at work through His people in the world. As in...inasmuch as you received my ministers...you received Me.

Of course today, with all the fake things and beliefs...this aspect of the righteousness of God is not going to be understood by very many.... if any at all.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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So are you saying the Apostles had NO ONE to teach them?
Or would you agree that they had the BEST holder of a PhD ever?

Were YOU born with infused knowledge just like Adam and Eve were?
Or did you have to learn?
You mean the Holy Spirit just sat down with you and taught you about everything?
If this how you learned about the Trinity?
Is man a dichotomy or a trichotomy?
If you don't care, you will, once again, not understand some scripture.


I told you that you should be like the Bareans.
Maybe you don't read my posts really well.


I suggest you don't listen to ANY MAN,,,including your mentor that is on this forum.
I've told you that HE also is a MAN, and doesn't even have a PhD !!

And yes, I DO believe those that have spent years studying the bible know more than we do.

And I also believe that you should stop writing to me if I speak nonsense.

Yes, I agree it might be good for us to stop speaking with each other.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Read my post about fearing God again.
OR NOT. Your choice.

Keep fearing Him...
That will make for a SUPER GREAT RELATIONSHIP.

Make sure to fear your
father
brother
husband

too. It only makes sense.

I was responding to VIJ there.
 

Episkopos

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@Episkopos

I think what you're telling SBG is horrible and the likes you give her do not help her to understand the word.

How about making it as simple as Jesus made it?


You are actually making yourself to be far more spiritual than you are...having far more insight than you possess.

You have turned the truth into a lie. So of course you will try giving very bad advice. ;)

What makes you a "phd" in theology...your lack of esteem for others? Or your idea of somehow being superior to others?
 

GodsGrace

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You are actually making yourself to be far more spiritual than you are...far more insight than you possess.

You have turned the truth into a lie. So of course you will try giving very bad advice. ;)
I don't give advice on these forums.

I don't believe anyone should be giving advice.

It's nice to see that you have the same insight God has and know who has how much spirituality.

Which TRUTH have I turned into a LIE?

If I posted lies to you in previous posts,,,why didn't you address them?
 

Episkopos

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I don't give advice on these forums.

I don't believe anyone should be giving advice.

It's nice to see that you have the same insight God has and know who has how much spirituality.

Which TRUTH have I turned into a LIE?

If I posted lies to you in previous posts,,,why didn't you address them?


I don't answer foolish questions. When a person shows a complete ignorance (lack of knowledge) of biblical truth...as if that person actually didn't read the bible at all...then how can I explain that the opposite is true?

You would have to take your own statements...and disprove them by actually reading the bible about statements you say are unbiblical. So then you turn the world upside down...How can you be a bible expert without reading the bible?

there's too much correction that you need...and this forum is not the right place for THAT level of intervention.

Seek the living God AND read the bible. That's all I can say to you.
 
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GodsGrace

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The fear of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom. Seeing you are far removed from this truth....where does that put you on the scale of wisdom?
Luckily for me,,,I don't fear the Lord.
You can if you want to, but this is not what Jesus taught.

You're still living in O.T. times?
Do you also follow all the Law?

Jesus taught that we are loved by God and that we are like children to God.
Jesus taught that we are to be like disciples...learning from Him and following His teachings.

Can you show me a verse about fearing the Lord from the N.T.?

Thanks.
 

GodsGrace

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I don't answer foolish questions. When a person shows a complete ignorance (lack of knowledge) of biblical truth...as if that person actually didn't read the bible at all...then how can I explain that the opposite is true?

You would have to take your own statements...and disprove them by actually reading the bible about statements you say are umbilical. So then you turn the world upside down...How can you be a bible expert without reading the bible?

there's too much correction that you need...and this forum is not the right place for THAT level of intervention.

Seek the living God AND read the bible. That's all I can say to you.
Sure. I know it's difficult to face up to what you've said...

Please answer my other post.
 

Miss Hepburn

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My favorite is Mechthild of Magdeburg - The Flowing Light of the Godhead
YOU ARE A MIND READER! I have that book!...Where is it! :D
I am going to start a thread on the Mystics..and their poems or writings...filled with nothing but love and wisdom.
Later gator.:)
 
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Episkopos

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Luckily for me,,,I don't fear the Lord.
You can if you want to, but this is not what Jesus taught.

You're still living in O.T. times?
Do you also follow all the Law?

Jesus taught that we are loved by God and that we are like children to God.
Jesus taught that we are to be like disciples...learning from Him and following His teachings.

Can you show me a verse about fearing the Lord from the N.T.?

Thanks.
Rev. 14:7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

Ro 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

1Pe 2:17 Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.

Mt 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Lu 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Ac 10:2 a devout man, and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the [Jewish] people, and prayed to God continually.


Ac 10:22 And they said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was [divinely] directed by a holy angel to send for you [to come] to his house and hear a message from you."

Ac 13:16 And Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand, he said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:


Ac 13:26 "Brethren, sons of Abraham's family, and those among you who fear God, to us the word of this salvation is sent out.

Lu 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Ac 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

2Co 5:11 Therefore knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest to God; and I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences.

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Eph 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

2Co 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.