Teresa of Avila and Watering the Garden

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GodsGrace

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Rev. 14:7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

Ro 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

1Pe 2:17 Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.

Mt 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Lu 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Ac 10:2 a devout man, and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the [Jewish] people, and prayed to God continually.


Ac 10:22 And they said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was [divinely] directed by a holy angel to send for you [to come] to his house and hear a message from you."

Ac 13:16 And Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand, he said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:


Ac 13:26 "Brethren, sons of Abraham's family, and those among you who fear God, to us the word of this salvation is sent out.

Lu 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Ac 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

2Co 5:11 Therefore knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest to God; and I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences.

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Eph 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are [your] masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Col 3:22 Servants, obey in all things [your] masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

2Co 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
To fear God could mean to be terrified of Him...
Or it could mean to have reverence for Him....

You could decide which you prefer.
I'm not getting into the Greek.

I prefer to have reverence for God and not be terrified of Him.

Strong's Concordance
phobeó: to put to flight, to terrify, frighten
Original Word: φοβέομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phobeó
Phonetic Spelling: (fob-eh'-o)
Definition: to put to flight, to terrify, frighten
Usage: I fear, dread, reverence, am afraid, terrified.
 

VictoryinJesus

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You answered in a peculiar way when you said: religion says she is damned. When pushed into a corner on the matter, you refused to be her judge. I cried and rejoiced at that.

God is the Judge of all things. Only He sees the heart. Consider the commandment of to Honour your Father and Mother. Under the schoolmaster ...this is taught. But there comes a time when the Greater command is Honour God the Father. And Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
^The obvious being Jesus Christ did this even in Matthew 12:47-50 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. [48] But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? [49] And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! [50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Luke 2:48-50 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. [49] And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? [50] And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

So the answer of the Hindu girl becomes in Honoring Her Father in Heaven and doing the Father’s will...to men it may appear she has dishonored her earthly parents and they condemn her not realizing that by honoring God First...she has honored her earthly parents in ways men do not see and judge wrongfully...even her parents who turn her out not knowing or seeing God’s Will and Ways are higher. In honoring God the Father ...to men it would be unpleasing ...but to God who is her Greatest Hope and strength...done in secret it pleases God for her to be as His Son. To men, in their eyes, they saw Mary kneeling before a Son crucified. her son who despised the shame set before Him. In that moment she would have heard her Son was a thief, a drunk, made Himself equal to God and every vile thing said and accused of Him was indeed true ...they had won and Judged Him Guilty. but Jesus Christ wasn’t about pleasing men and receiving the praise and justification of men...but His Fathers. What He did in First pleasing His Father and doing His Will...Honored Mary more than those who pronounced Him guilty could ever see in their false judgements. So the Hindu Girl...even if rejected by everyone and shamefully said to break every commandment ...in pleasing God and doing His Will...she would have fulfilled them all...not to please men in some act or display but by sharing in His suffering and shame and therefore Honoring Him.
 

VictoryinJesus

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How do you, personally, seek Gods righteousness? Do you just pray, please give me your righteousness?

No. How can what is not of this world be described? Could give you personal testimony but it would take pages. Man’s righteousness hates God’s righteousness...in God’s righteousness destroys man’s righteousness. God’s Righteousness is the real threat to man’s. If you don’t believe that you watch when man’s righteousness is threatened and see what man does. It is not about what one eats or wears or does to please men and to appear righteous. It is dragged through the dirt, humiliation, cursed and despised and and hated yet His righteousness still stands up under the weight of scorn. It breaks apart and completely shatters every vain action and vain thought and destroys it in the sight of all God is. Not men...the bondage of vanity and corruption. The Spirit of God comes underneath that which lacks and is weak and lifts up. Was taught on the cross that Jesus Christ became our curse and bore our sins...while that is true He overcome evil with good. He overcome the curse with blessing. He overcome hate with Love. Righteousness and Holiness is Love. Without charity...all is nothing and will become nothing. God said to be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect and that perfect is Love. He said it is the bond of perfection within the body. Man’s righteousness wants to suppress and keep down to be set to rule over another considered less than. God’s Righteousness lifts up and bears all things, hopes all things, believes all things and endures all things. The pillars in His temple carry a weight...the world set upon it...that is His righteousness. When I suggested man’s righteousness is crushed ...I didn’t mean men but the bondage of suppression and vanity and corruption and every lie that whispers: perform for us. Dance for us. Then shouts “It is not enough”.

Only His Name endures and continues. You want to know and see Love...He carried His crucifix without the gate to bear the reproach of those in the dung (waste)heap, of all those collected without the gate in the Old Testament, and there He crucified the flesh and was justified in the Spirit of God. Paul took up the crucifix and went without the gate and set it next to the Lord’s. The disciples took the crucifix and went without to the waste heap and stood up their crucifix next to their Lord. All those who hear His voice and obey take up the crucifix and go without the gate to bear reproach, set a stake next to His. They go up: Crucifix after crucifix being lifted without the gate where the unclean leaper, the man stoned for collecting sticks on the Sabbath, the woman raped who did not scream, all that which was filth and cast unto the dung(waste)heap...crucifix after crucifix being raised ...His having the world set upon His temple and by the strength of God and His Spirit raising the sign...”IT is Finished!” Love like I’ve never possessed in my weakness but have seen and witnessed in its power to heal what I thought was impossible to be healed. Man’s righteousness doesn’t do that...man’s righteousness condemns and spits on that which is weak. God’s righteousness rejoices and redeems and comes under that which is weak and lacks and by a supernatural indescribable untouchable strength...Lifts up His Name on High above all others.

God’s righteousness wins. Man’s righteousness time is short. Love wins over hate. Good wins over evil. He has already promised this. Yet man will cling to and maintain his own righteousness until it is no longer so. The Pharisees said they kept the commandments of God...Jesus asked them “then why do you seek to kill me.” God’s children do not seek to kill...they come under and lift up what Lacks.
 
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amadeus

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Marks, I don't care for that expression that you're thinking of above which comes from Isaiah about the filthy rags.

Here's why: It makes it sound like that if we do anything for God we're trying to get our own righteousness,,,IOW,,,this verse is always used to show that our works are worth nothing.

Which I agree with BEFORE we're saved because our works do not save us.

AFTER we're saved and we are made RIGHT WITH GOD (righteous through Him) THEN
God appreciates all our good works or deeds.

Saved persons are clean...NOT unclean as Isaiah 64 states.
John 15:3

Other than this, I do agree with you.

"And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." Acts 10:15
 
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amadeus

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I know this is taking it back many pages ago but, I don't think you understood what I was saying.

Practically speaking, what does seeking His righteousness look like? How do you, personally, seek Gods righteousness? Do you just pray, please give me your righteousness?

God is righteous, yes, He always does everything right. He never makes a mistake. But does that mean we then seek and ask to never make a mistake? Is that what seeking after Gods righteousness is?

Or does it possibly mean, seek after what God says makes a man righteous, seek after the righteousness that is by faith (trust).
We are told to seek His righteousness [Matt 6:33] but going back to Psalms we see where David was told to seek His face. What should we expect to see? In the very beginning of our walk with God how did His face appear to us? And now? How would this different than with His righteousness? We may seeking something with only a shadow as our guide at the start. Later on perhaps that black silhouette will begin to take on color and defined features a "face" that we really are able to recognize. Similarly will we really begin to understand just what His righteousness is, that is, what it looks like? Closer we may be, but still perhaps so very far away. But is there not hope?

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

You said: "what does seeking His righteousness look like?" What indeed if we are looking with the carnal eyes and drawing conclusions with the carnal mind?

We need the mind of Christ? We need the "eyes to see" about which Jesus spoke. These come, if they come, by the Holy Spirit in us. Carnally it seems to be walking in a circle and so carnally minded people may call it "circular reasoning", but what they say does not matter so long as we are in touch with God receiving and vision and understanding from Him.
 

VictoryinJesus

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We are told to seek His righteousness [Matt 6:33] but going back to Psalms we see where David was told to seek His face. What should we expect to see? In the very beginning of our walk with God how did His face appear to us? And now? How would this different than with His righteousness? We may seeking something with only a shadow as our guide at the start. Later on perhaps that black silhouette will begin to take on color and defined features a "face" that we really are able to recognize. Similarly will we really begin to understand just what His righteousness is, that is, what it looks like? Closer we may be, but still perhaps so very far away. But is there not hope?

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

You said: "what does seeking His righteousness look like?" What indeed if we are looking with the carnal eyes and drawing conclusions with the carnal mind?

We need the mind of Christ? We need the "eyes to see" about which Jesus spoke. These come, if they come, by the Holy Spirit in us. Carnally it seems to be walking in a circle and so carnally minded people may call it "circular reasoning", but what they say does not matter so long as we are in touch with God receiving and vision and understanding from Him.

Indeed! Colossians 3:1-3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. [2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. [3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
 

VictoryinJesus

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"And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." Acts 10:15

“What God has cleansed...”Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
 

amadeus

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but actual humble ministers of God...that few would be able to discern. God is a God who hides Himself...and His minsters are so often obscure.

So far away from God has man drifted/walked that He did indeed hide Himself from us to protect us. The man Moses was given a glimpse:

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." Ex 33:20-23


Only a glimpse and David wanted to see His face. The apostle Paul wrote that there would be a "then" for that face to face vision. To ever get there, any one of us, requires preparation, a preparation that God has now made a possibility within reach. Not many are really stretching way out in order to attain to it. Some, or all, may need help and who are the human helpers provided by God?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" Eph 4:11-15
 

marks

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Marks, I don't care for that expression that you're thinking of above which comes from Isaiah about the filthy rags.

Here's why: It makes it sound like that if we do anything for God we're trying to get our own righteousness,,,IOW,,,this verse is always used to show that our works are worth nothing.

Which I agree with BEFORE we're saved because our works do not save us.

AFTER we're saved and we are made RIGHT WITH GOD (righteous through Him) THEN
God appreciates all our good works or deeds.

Saved persons are clean...NOT unclean as Isaiah 64 states.
John 15:3

Other than this, I do agree with you.

Perhaps this will help say more what I mean.

If we are thinking that we on our own, not as a matter of the Spirit filling us to do His will, but rather we come up with things on our own which we think that if we do them, God will accept us more, or love us more, or advance us to the next level, or give us more Grace, in that, I've done my righteous act, now you will accept me on that basis, this thinking is absolutely wrong.

This notion being taught that we have our own righteousness, something separate from God's righteousness, is nonsense, and clearly denied in Scripture.

If you want to go by you're own righteousness, then it has to exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees. You have to be righteous from the start, and remain in righteousness all your life.

So to "submit my righteousness to God" is a nonsensical statement. God would basically look at whatever good think we're offering, and say, You come to me with THAT? Offer this broken legged diseased goat to your governer, will he be pleased with you?

But that's all we have. Of our selves. Works which are to God filthy.

However, as God's born spirit children, sharing His nature, alive and fruitful by His grace, we do those things such as we, His children, do. This is His righteousness shining out of us, rivers of water flowing from us.

We trade our sin for His righteousness, so instead of living our sin, we live His righteousness.

I don't mean to speak against that which you believe God leads you to do. I do mean to present a Biblical response to a teaching I find false.

Much love!
 
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GodsGrace

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M,,, I just reread my post because I thought you were answering me (but I found no answser).

Instead I see that I misquoted what I intended to say:

I did NOT mean that Isaiah 64 is speaking about saved persons that are unclean!
 

Waiting on him

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To fear God could mean to be terrified of Him...
Or it could mean to have reverence for Him....

You could decide which you prefer.
I'm not getting into the Greek.

I prefer to have reverence for God and not be terrified of Him.

Strong's Concordance
phobeó: to put to flight, to terrify, frighten
Original Word: φοβέομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phobeó
Phonetic Spelling: (fob-eh'-o)
Definition: to put to flight, to terrify, frighten
Usage: I fear, dread, reverence, am afraid, terrified.
Why would you be afraid of God?
 

aspen

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I prefer not to be terrified of God, as well.
However, I think this requires us to be vulnerable and willing to look into the face of our sinfulness so that God can heal us.
This can be too terrifying for many.

George MacDonald wrote about the difference between God being viewed through the perspective of sinners and saints, I wouldn’t want to see Him through the lens of my unforgiven sin

“At the Back of the Northwind” by MacDonald is a good example
 

GodsGrace

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Perhaps this will help say more what I mean.

If we are thinking that we on our own, not as a matter of the Spirit filling us to do His will, but rather we come up with things on our own which we think that if we do them, God will accept us more, or love us more, or advance us to the next level, or give us more Grace, in that, I've done my righteous act, now you will accept me on that basis, this thinking is absolutely wrong.

This notion being taught that we have our own righteousness, something separate from God's righteousness, is nonsense, and clearly denied in Scripture.

If you want to go by you're own righteousness, then it has to exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees. You have to be righteous from the start, and remain in righteousness all your life.

So to "submit my righteousness to God" is a nonsensical statement. God would basically look at whatever good think we're offering, and say, You come to me with THAT? Offer this broken legged diseased goat to your governer, will he be pleased with you?

But that's all we have. Of our selves. Works which are to God filthy.

However, as God's born spirit children, sharing His nature, alive and fruitful by His grace, we do those things such as we, His children, do. This is His righteousness shining out of us, rivers of water flowing from us.

We trade our sin for His righteousness, so instead of living our sin, we live His righteousness.

I don't mean to speak against that which you believe God leads you to do. I do mean to present a Biblical response to a teaching I find false.

Much love!
I do believe we're saying the same thing. (as my post no. 341)

What did I say that you find false?
 

GodsGrace

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Why would you be afraid of God?
This is for you and @aspen ....
I am NOT fearful of God.
Episkopos was posting that it's necessary to fear God.
I asked him to post some scripture. Which he did.
So, just quick, I looked up the word "fear" in the original language.

It stated that it could men FEAR, BEING TERRIFIED OF,
or it could mean REVERENCE (which is how I've always understood the fear of God to be).
See my post no. 361 for reference.

I told Episkopos that I prefer to believe that it means a reverence...
and that he could be terrified of God if that's what he prefers.
 

aspen

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This is for you and @aspen ....
I am NOT fearful of God.
Episkopos was posting that it's necessary to fear God.
I asked him to post some scripture. Which he did.
So, just quick, I looked up the word "fear" in the original language.

It stated that it could men FEAR, BEING TERRIFIED OF,
or it could mean REVERENCE (which is how I've always understood the fear of God to be).
See my post no. 361 for reference.

I told Episkopos that I prefer to believe that it means a reverence...
and that he could be terrified of God if that's what he prefers.

I get it.
I was just adding my thoughts
My post was not commentary on you or your post
 
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Waiting on him

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This is for you and @aspen ....
I am NOT fearful of God.
Episkopos was posting that it's necessary to fear God.
I asked him to post some scripture. Which he did.
So, just quick, I looked up the word "fear" in the original language.

It stated that it could men FEAR, BEING TERRIFIED OF,
or it could mean REVERENCE (which is how I've always understood the fear of God to be).
See my post no. 361 for reference.

I told Episkopos that I prefer to believe that it means a reverence...
and that he could be terrified of God if that's what he prefers.
2 Timothy 1:7 KJV
[7] For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


Tecarta Bible
 

stunnedbygrace

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Oh, okay, I see.

So then that verse would read like this: for God has not given us a spirit of reverence...

Makes sense.

Not!
 

Waiting on him

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Oh, okay, I see.

So then that verse would read like this: for God has not given us a spirit of reverence...

Makes sense.

Not!
Revelation 15:4 KJV
[4] Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for
Revelation 15:4 KJV
[4] Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made

In this application fear means reverence.

And did you see who is Holy?