Well in that case there is no need to CANONIZE anyone is there? Your church teaches the so-called canonization of saints, which is simply another false doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. So how many false doctrines must be exposed before you see the light?
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Not so. It is the foundation of all evangelical and fundamental churches. But the LDS church has added other so-called *scriptures* (just like the Catholics which also have *Holy Tradition*) therefore the Bible is NOT your sole authority.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
That's the point, they are living.
That they can hear us, and that their prayers are effecacious, is evidenced by the miracles that are wrought when we ask them to pray for us.
The prayers of righteous men and women are effective indeed, and so we ask the heroes of our faith to aid us with their prayers...
The communion of the saints (yes thats all of us) is real. We bear one anothers burdens and share one anothers joys and death has no power over us!
Peace be with you!
If you were TOTALLY HONEST you would also say that we worship Mary and the saints who have passed on. Let's just look at Salve Regina:
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,
Hail our life, our sweetness and our hope.
To thee do we cry,
Poor banished children of Eve;
To thee do we send up our sighs,
Mourning and weeping in this valley of tears.
Turn then, most gracious advocate,
Thine eyes of mercy toward us;
And after this our exile,
Show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
O clement, O loving,
O sweet Virgin Mary.
℣ Pray for us, O holy Mother of God,
℟ that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
1. Is Mary Queen of Heaven? NO
2. Is Mary our Life or is Christ? CHRIST
3. Is Mary our Hope or is Christ? CHRIST
4. Is Mary our gracious advocate or is Christ? CHRIST
5. Does Mary have mercy upon us or does God? GOD
6. Is Mary the mother of God or of Christ? CHRIST
Who can deny that in this "Hymn to Mary" Mary has been substituted for Christ? This is what happens while praying to the saints and Mary.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Mary is the Queen Mother because Jesus is the King!
Mary is the Mother of God because Jesus is God.
Frankly, it is impossible for us to honour Mary more than God already has by choosing her to be His mother.
We give latria to God alone. Mary is not God.
You try to separate Mary from her son, but it cannot be done. They are intimately linked for eternity.
All that Mary is flows from Who Jesus IS!
There is no need to fear Mary. She always points to her son and says 'do whatever He tells you'
Peace be with you!
As I just said: "Sola Scriptura" is a tradition unique to some Protestant denominations.
Song of Solomon 8:5
5Who is this coming up from the wilderness, leaning on her beloved? I roused you under the apple tree; there your mother conceived you, there she travailed and brought you forth. 6Set me as a seal over your heart, as a seal upon your arm. For love is as strong as death, its jealousy as unrelenting as Sheol. Its sparks are fiery flames, the fiercest blaze of all.…
The wilderness is the gentile nations -simply those who before knowing Christ were not in Christ. We have been roused under the Apple Tree-(Under the Influence of Israel) which is that apple tree. There our mother (Mother Mary) conceived us- in conceiving in her sanctified flesh our God. In His Immaculate conception(Holy Placement in her egg) and the Incarnation of God from her egg ( flesh) -His birth is the birth of all who would be called Children of God. It is there in Israel she travailed and brought us all forth in her travail and labor for Christ. We must set her as Mother -"seal over our heart" , as she is upon Christ's. She was His nurturing, guiding hand, a seal upon His arm in leading and guiding -rearing Him to His adult life. This she did in the fullness of Grace- (Wisdom), apportioned to her according to the gift given her. That gift is the Fullness of Mercy and Grace -Christ. It is from her cup to all, that this Mercy and Grace flows. This by the Will of the Father.
The priesthood is not abolished. It is in the order of Melchizedek (Christ's order). I have read through all the post in this thread. All seem to agree that we are all part of a Holy priesthood. Clearly! For the Most High priest, after He completed His work on earth and arose to His rest, sat at the Right hand of the Power of God and sits upon His Father's throne forevermore! We are ALL in a Holy Priest -(Christ).
However, as all have clearly stated, we all have roles in a certain authority given us. Call it offices, of which each has a different purpose in serving. The PRESBYTER/ OVERSEER: Is the priest all speak of , and the priesthood should be kept Holy. What I deduce from what everyone is saying , is there is a priesthood. Denying it in Title, but still stating we are all part of a priesthood....... is for a lack of a better word , an oxymoron. For clearly, a Presbyter/Overseer has a role not given to say a woman.
1 Timothy 3:1-3
Qualifications for Overseers
1This is a trustworthy saying: If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble task. 2An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not dependent on wine, not violent but gentle, peaceable, and free of the love of money.…
And this overseer is not commanded to be celibate .As is shown in Timothy. And Paul clearly says it is not a command but a suggestion. And Christ never commanded celibacy , it is a personal choice and it is good, just as marriage is. I uphold an OVERSEER who would chose either course for himself.
I think what can be said is.....Some men have not walked in the image that Christ established but have been wolves in sheep's clothing. (Using the Title of Christian) but have not walked the walk and talked the talk. And some men have. Those who have, have been true priest in Christ. And clearly, the Holy Priesthood is not a fraternity of men in a clique, but rather men who ABIDE. They are approved by God alone. Yes Holy men have , through election appointed men to receive the Crown of remaining in the the Apostolic Order . Through the succession of time, men have remained faithful to that Order established by Christ in His apostles.
Men still have roles in Christ as priest. May all Presbyters/Overseers be blessed. May those who choose celibacy (THIS IS A CHOICE NOT A COMMAND) fulfill it to its end. But if they cannot it is better to marry than to burn. Men in here who uphold Christ teachings have become overseers even if they are unaware. And in that they have chosen an admirable path. I commend those men in here.
Ravenous wolves have arisen among the faithful. Paul warned about this. They would arise after his departure.And would distort the doctrine of Christ to lead men to themselves and away from Christ.Those who direct people to Christ alone in here GOD BLESS YOU!
The first wolf of the church was Judas. This was so even before the Church of Rome even was. With the Roman's grafting in they too experienced these such wolves.
This has occurred in all denominations. This is what is meant by wheat and tares. It is IMHO that we are in the season of separation. A revealing of what is Truth and what is lie. For many , many centuries all has been growing together. We have all experienced many "doctrinal fathers" and they have come in two forms wheat and tare. The Day- it is that time of revealing. And all will be tested by the written word. If it can not stand upon the foundation then it is revealed to be straw. It is not complicated. I lean on my Beloved, on His Holy Spirit inspired word. It will call us up out of the wilderness of the denominations and give us correction, and sound doctrine. It test all the doctrines out there.
PEACE TO ALL IN CHRIST JESUS
Yours truly,
DNM.
5Who is this coming up from the wilderness, leaning on her beloved? I roused you under the apple tree; there your mother conceived you, there she travailed and brought you forth. 6Set me as a seal over your heart, as a seal upon your arm. For love is as strong as death, its jealousy as unrelenting as Sheol. Its sparks are fiery flames, the fiercest blaze of all.…
The wilderness is the gentile nations -simply those who before knowing Christ were not in Christ. We have been roused under the Apple Tree-(Under the Influence of Israel) which is that apple tree. There our mother (Mother Mary) conceived us- in conceiving in her sanctified flesh our God. In His Immaculate conception(Holy Placement in her egg) and the Incarnation of God from her egg ( flesh) -His birth is the birth of all who would be called Children of God. It is there in Israel she travailed and brought us all forth in her travail and labor for Christ. We must set her as Mother -"seal over our heart" , as she is upon Christ's. She was His nurturing, guiding hand, a seal upon His arm in leading and guiding -rearing Him to His adult life. This she did in the fullness of Grace- (Wisdom), apportioned to her according to the gift given her. That gift is the Fullness of Mercy and Grace -Christ. It is from her cup to all, that this Mercy and Grace flows. This by the Will of the Father.
The priesthood is not abolished. It is in the order of Melchizedek (Christ's order). I have read through all the post in this thread. All seem to agree that we are all part of a Holy priesthood. Clearly! For the Most High priest, after He completed His work on earth and arose to His rest, sat at the Right hand of the Power of God and sits upon His Father's throne forevermore! We are ALL in a Holy Priest -(Christ).
However, as all have clearly stated, we all have roles in a certain authority given us. Call it offices, of which each has a different purpose in serving. The PRESBYTER/ OVERSEER: Is the priest all speak of , and the priesthood should be kept Holy. What I deduce from what everyone is saying , is there is a priesthood. Denying it in Title, but still stating we are all part of a priesthood....... is for a lack of a better word , an oxymoron. For clearly, a Presbyter/Overseer has a role not given to say a woman.
1 Timothy 3:1-3
Qualifications for Overseers
1This is a trustworthy saying: If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble task. 2An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not dependent on wine, not violent but gentle, peaceable, and free of the love of money.…
And this overseer is not commanded to be celibate .As is shown in Timothy. And Paul clearly says it is not a command but a suggestion. And Christ never commanded celibacy , it is a personal choice and it is good, just as marriage is. I uphold an OVERSEER who would chose either course for himself.
I think what can be said is.....Some men have not walked in the image that Christ established but have been wolves in sheep's clothing. (Using the Title of Christian) but have not walked the walk and talked the talk. And some men have. Those who have, have been true priest in Christ. And clearly, the Holy Priesthood is not a fraternity of men in a clique, but rather men who ABIDE. They are approved by God alone. Yes Holy men have , through election appointed men to receive the Crown of remaining in the the Apostolic Order . Through the succession of time, men have remained faithful to that Order established by Christ in His apostles.
Men still have roles in Christ as priest. May all Presbyters/Overseers be blessed. May those who choose celibacy (THIS IS A CHOICE NOT A COMMAND) fulfill it to its end. But if they cannot it is better to marry than to burn. Men in here who uphold Christ teachings have become overseers even if they are unaware. And in that they have chosen an admirable path. I commend those men in here.
Ravenous wolves have arisen among the faithful. Paul warned about this. They would arise after his departure.And would distort the doctrine of Christ to lead men to themselves and away from Christ.Those who direct people to Christ alone in here GOD BLESS YOU!
The first wolf of the church was Judas. This was so even before the Church of Rome even was. With the Roman's grafting in they too experienced these such wolves.
This has occurred in all denominations. This is what is meant by wheat and tares. It is IMHO that we are in the season of separation. A revealing of what is Truth and what is lie. For many , many centuries all has been growing together. We have all experienced many "doctrinal fathers" and they have come in two forms wheat and tare. The Day- it is that time of revealing. And all will be tested by the written word. If it can not stand upon the foundation then it is revealed to be straw. It is not complicated. I lean on my Beloved, on His Holy Spirit inspired word. It will call us up out of the wilderness of the denominations and give us correction, and sound doctrine. It test all the doctrines out there.
PEACE TO ALL IN CHRIST JESUS
Yours truly,
DNM.
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So if I prayed to my mum, dad or other friends who have 'passed' they would hear and my prayers would be answered?
Philip James
Well-Known Member
I don't know your mum, dad or friends, so you would be better able to answer that than I.
However i can say with assurance that the prayers of Br. Andre are effective indeed.
Peace!
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Hi Enoch,
Don't born again churches have pastors or elders that serve as Priests?
The Catholic Church taught me about Christ, and I am grateful for that, truly grateful.
I don't need a Priest, but perhaps those in need of guidance and spiritual help, do need someone, be he a Priest, Pastor, Elder, someone who can help guide them.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Of course. No one 'needs' canonization. Canonization recognizes the heroes of our faith, it doesnt create them..
Peace!
There are many unknown saints and not every person the Vatican says is a saint is. For instance Joan of Arc. We know what a woman's role is in scripture. They had to do damage control and so after deemed her a saint. She is not. And there are saints of Coptic orthodox and many, many other churches which were before the Roman Catholic denomination.That is fact. Now, for those who are against or new to the Catholic Church, it is enough to believe in scripture and know those who laid the ground work are saints that we can bank on. Once one grows in that truth , one is able to recognize a true saint, regardless of their denomination. But for sure the Catholic church does not have a monopoly on saints.
If one believes that then they deny Christian History.
If one believes that then they deny Christian History.
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