Character

aspen said:

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Jesus Christ was a rebel - to earth-dwellers, but not to God. Interesting that a rebel to earth-dwellers was sent against the rebels to God.

ScottA said:

Your point accomplishes nothing.

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The point is that Trump has extraordinarily poor morals for a politician. You put a finer point on it, by bringing up Pence, who has done none of the things for which people consider Trump to be a sleazy character.

You can drop it. But you are not paying attention, and you are missing the point of me bring Pence up.

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I get it. Pence, although not entirely clear of ethical issues, is probably at least average for a politician. By comparison, Trump's behavior is astoundingly bad.

If you have no reason to criticize Pence, don't criticize him.

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I asked several times why you even bothered to compare him to Trump. I'm not saying he's blameless, but next to Trump, he looks like Mr. Clean.

But my point was that instead of criticizing God's choice of leaders,

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God didn't vote in 2016. Voters put Trump in the WH, not God. It's human nature to blame God when bad things happen, but we have only ourselves to blame for Trump as president.

Yehren said:

The point is that Trump has extraordinarily poor morals for a politician.

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1. Trump is NOT a politician but a successful businessman who ran for office and fairly and squarely won the election WHEN THE WHOLE WORLD WAS AGAINST HIM (other than those who voted for him). That is quite an achievement in itself. Did you commend him for that?

2. Trump has donated his presidential salary from day one to worthy recipients. What does that say about his morality, when the rest of the Swamp is on the take and pork barrel politics is the name of the game?

3. Not A SINGLE ITEM ON HIS AGENDA was dishonest or immoral. He vowed to Make America Great Again and he went a long way in doing so. How many other professional politicians had that goal, rather than the destruction of America???? Do you recall traitor Obama shipping billions of dollars to the avowed enemy of America -- Iran -- and getting away with it?

4. You are clearly a Left-Liberal suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome. Which means that no matter how excellent his achievements might be, he will always be -- in your estimation -- an immoral, unprincipled racist, bigot, White Supremacist, Nazi, Hitler, and every other evil person who has every lived. For rational people, this is called MADNESS. And it us pure madness that has taken hold of the Democrats.

Enoch111 said:

1. Trump is NOT a politician but a successful businessman

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He is a businessman. However, I know many businessmen who certainly haven't made a cesspool of their lives as Trump has. And given his numerous business failures and bankruptcies, "successful" is not a word that fits him. He apparently didn't actually want to win the election; it was an attempt to enhance his brand. As his friend Howard Stern predicted, it has not been good for his mental health.

2. Trump has donated his presidential salary from day one to worthy recipients.

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And used his office to give himself a massive tax cut, worth many times what his salary would be. And directed military crews to stay in his resorts when they traveled. Not to mention his huge overcharges to the inaguration committee for use of his hotels.

What does that say about his morality

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The same thing that multimillion dollar fraud judgement says about him.

3. Not A SINGLE ITEM ON HIS AGENDA was dishonest or immoral. He vowed to Make America Great Again and he went a long way in doing so.

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America doesn't think so...

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default...al_democratic_primary_tracker_09_11_2019_.pdf

Do you recall traitor Obama shipping billions of dollars to the avowed enemy of America -- Iran -- and getting away with it?

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You're wrong there. It was several million, and it was their money he was withholding from them. It's how he got them to shut down their nuclear weapons program. "You want to be able to sell your oil again? You want your money returned to you? Shut down the enrichment reactors."

And the Iranians caved, because their economy was in a shambles, thanks to Obama's coalition which would not let them sell their oil, or get their frozen assets back until they gave him what he asked for.

4. You are clearly a Left-Liberal suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

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I don't think chanting slogans will help much. I'm mostly libertarian. And as you might have noticed, there are lots of conservatives who think Trump is doing damage to America.

Which means that no matter how excellent his achievements might be

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Actually, just after he was elected, I wrote that he might turn out to be a better president than anyone might have anticipated. I liked his willingness to reform sentencing, and I applauded his military intervention when Assad started using chemical weapons again. (Assad thought it was safe to start making them and using them again after Obama left office, but he was wrong)

he will always be -- in your estimation -- an immoral, unprincipled racist, bigot, White Supremacist, Nazi, Hitler, and every other evil person who has every lived.

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Let's see...

Unprincipled... yes.

Racist, bigot ... yes, he has acted that way. Would you like some examples?

White Supremacist... no, he just panders to white supremacists.

Nazi, Hitler... no. He actually likes Jews, believing them to be good businessmen.

Every other evil person who ever lived... No, he's venial, not evil. I don't think he wants to hurt anyone who hasn't criticized him or stood in the way of him making money.

Calm yourself. He's not the AntiChrist. He's just a huckster without any moral sense, who's in over his head.

Yehren said:

I get it. Pence, although not entirely clear of ethical issues, is probably at least average for a politician. By comparison, Trump's behavior is astoundingly bad.

I asked several times why you even bothered to compare him to Trump. I'm not saying he's blameless, but next to Trump, he looks like Mr. Clean.

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No...you don't get it. I did not bring up Pence to compare him with Trump or anyone else. I brought him up because we have a Christian in the White House...and all some of you want to do is badmouth Trump. That is the fruit of hatred.

Yehren said:

God didn't vote in 2016. Voters put Trump in the WH, not God. It's human nature to blame God when bad things happen, but we have only ourselves to blame for Trump as president.

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No...that is not biblical. It is God who raises up leaders, not men.

Trump Administration Accomplishments

• Almost 4 million jobs created since election.
• More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.
• We have created more than 400,000 manufacturing jobs since my election.
• Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than THREE DECADES.
• Economic growth last quarter hit 4.2 percent.
• New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.
• Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.
• African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
• Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.
• Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
• Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.
• Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.
• Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.
• Under my Administration, veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.
• Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election.
• The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans. We are committed to VOCATIONAL education.
• 95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future—the highest ever.
• Retail sales surged last month, up another 6 percent over last year.
• Signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history. After tax cuts, over $300 billion poured back in to the U.S. in the first quarter alone.
• As a result of our tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.
• Helped win U.S. bid for the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.
• Helped win U.S.-Mexico-Canada’s united bid for 2026 World Cup.
• Opened ANWR and approved Keystone XL and Dakota Access Pipelines.
• Record number of regulations eliminated.
• Enacted regulatory relief for community banks and credit unions.
• Obamacare individual mandate penalty GONE.
• My Administration is providing more affordable healthcare options for Americans through association health plans and short-term duration plans.
• Last month, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history. And thanks to our efforts, many drug companies are freezing or reversing planned price increases.
• We reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars this year alone.
• Signed Right-To-Try legislation.
• Secured $6 billion in NEW funding to fight the opioid epidemic.
• We have reduced high-dose opioid prescriptions by 16 percent during my first year in office.
• Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.
• Increased our coal exports by 60 percent; U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high.
• United States is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957.
• Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord.
• Cancelled the illegal, anti-coal, so-called Clean Power Plan.
• Secured record $700 billion in military funding; $716 billion next year.
• NATO allies are spending $69 billion more on defense since 2016.
• Process has begun to make the Space Force the 6th branch of the Armed Forces.
• Confirmed more circuit court judges than any other new administration.
• Confirmed Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and nominated Judge Brett Kavanaugh.
• Withdrew from the horrible, one-sided Iran Deal.
• Moved U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.
• Protecting Americans from terrorists with the Travel Ban, upheld by Supreme Court.
• Issued Executive Order to keep open Guantanamo Bay.
• Concluded a historic U.S.-Mexico Trade Deal to replace NAFTA. And negotiations with Canada are underway as we speak.
• Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports.
• Imposed tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum to protect our national security.
• Imposed tariffs on China in response to China’s forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices.
• Net exports are on track to increase by $59 billion this year.
• Improved vetting and screening for refugees, and switched focus to overseas resettlement.
• We have begun BUILDING THE WALL. Republicans want STRONG BORDERS and NO CRIME. Democrats want OPEN BORDERS which equals MASSIVE CRIME.

Yehren says:
I get it. Pence, although not entirely clear of ethical issues, is probably at least average for a politician. By comparison, Trump's behavior is astoundingly bad.

I asked several times why you even bothered to compare him to Trump. I'm not saying he's blameless, but next to Trump, he looks like Mr. Clean.

ScottA said:

No...you don't get it.

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Sure I did. It was a desultory diversion attempt. But Pence is an angel compared to all the despicable things Trump has done. So it didn't work.

I brought him up because we have a Christian in the White House...

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Down from two in the last administration. So that won't work for you, either.

and all some of you want to do is badmouth Trump.

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Face it, he's done many things that any Christian would find objectionable. We don't hate him; we just realize the damage he's doing to America.

Yehren says:
God didn't vote in 2016. Voters put Trump in the WH, not God. It's human nature to blame God when bad things happen, but we have only ourselves to blame for Trump as president.

No...that is not biblical.

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It's just factual. The Bible doesn't cover elections.

It is God who raises up leaders, not men.

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So God raised up Obama? If he raised up one very good man to be president, and then immediately after, raised up Trump, I don't see the point. Why not just admit that the American people elect presidents?

Willie T said:

A little reading for us.
Fact-checking Trump tweets on Obama's payments to Iran - CNNPolitics

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From your source:
Trump wrote that through the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action with Iran, Obama "gave (Iran) 150 Billion Dollars."
Facts First: The Iran Deal unlocked Iranian assets that were previously frozen due to sanctions, but it's unclear how much those assets were worth -- $150 billion is the highest estimate provided by US officials and it's thought that Iran could not have accessed all of that money because much of it was tied up in projects overseas.
Trump's assertion that Obama "gave" Iran this money is not quite accurate. As part of the deal (which multiple countries were involved in), Iranian assets that existed in banks and financial institutions across the world were unfrozen.

Yehren said:

Sure I did. It was a desultory diversion attempt. But Pence is an angel compared to all the despicable things Trump has done. So it didn't work.

Down from two in the last administration. So that won't work for you, either.

Face it, he's done many things that any Christian would find objectionable. We don't hate him; we just realize the damage he's doing to America.

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Not only did you not get it--you still don't...and your next statements proves it.

Yehren said:

Yehren says:
God didn't vote in 2016. Voters put Trump in the WH, not God. It's human nature to blame God when bad things happen, but we have only ourselves to blame for Trump as president.

It's just factual. The Bible doesn't cover elections.

So God raised up Obama? If he raised up one very good man to be president, and then immediately after, raised up Trump, I don't see the point. Why not just admit that the American people elect presidents?

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You don't have the foggiest idea that it is God who raises up [all] leaders, even Hitler. Wow! It is therefore clear that your whole line is completely secular and political.

I have been pointing out the elephant in the room and you don't see a bit of it. You are not qualified to relate to anything that is going on here spiritually. It all went right over your head, because you've got your own worldly wide-path gig going.

Wow--just wow! How organic!

ScottA said:

You don't have the foggiest idea that it is God who raises up [all] leaders, even Hitler.

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No, that's wrong. We aren't robots, and God isn't a puppetmaster. Humans are responsible for what we do, including the leaders we pick.

It is therefore clear that your whole line is completely secular and political.

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For a Christian, humans are responsible for their actions, not God. He gives us the will to do as we want, even if it's the will to sin, or to pick a moral disaster for a leader.

I have been pointing out the elephant in the room and you don't see a bit of it.

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We all see what you're saying here. It's just not Christian doctrine.

You are not qualified to relate to anything that is going on here spiritually.

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Funny how people like that, never realize it, isn't it?

Willie T said:

It is because of selective posting like this that I gave a link to the ENTIRE article.

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I'd be pleased to see wherein the article contradicts itself with regard to the part of the report that I posted. Could you show us that?

Willie T said:

That is why the link is there... so that others can read it all, (and other links, too) and decide for themselves. I picked this article because it somewhat presents both the negatives and the positives of the deal. I could have done like others do, and picked only a slanted view. But, my intent was not to defend anything, but rather to show all I could openly do of both sides.

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So nothing? This was the accusation on the table:

Do you recall traitor Obama shipping billions of dollars to the avowed enemy of America -- Iran -- and getting away with it?

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And here's what the article said about that:
Trump wrote that through the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action with Iran, Obama "gave (Iran) 150 Billion Dollars."
Facts First: The Iran Deal unlocked Iranian assets that were previously frozen due to sanctions, but it's unclear how much those assets were worth -- $150 billion is the highest estimate provided by US officials and it's thought that Iran could not have accessed all of that money because much of it was tied up in projects overseas.
Trump's assertion that Obama "gave" Iran this money is not quite accurate. As part of the deal (which multiple countries were involved in), Iranian assets that existed in banks and financial institutions across the world were unfrozen.

I found nothing in the rest of the article to contradict this statement. Apparently, you didn't either. It's publicly available information.

Yehren said:

No, that's wrong. We aren't robots, and God isn't a puppetmaster. Humans are responsible for what we do, including the leaders we pick.



For a Christian, humans are responsible for their actions, not God. He gives us the will to do as we want, even if it's the will to sin, or to pick a moral disaster for a leader.



We all see what you're saying here. It's just not Christian doctrine.



Funny how people like that, never realize it, isn't it?

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Well...you have lots to learn:

Proverbs 16:9
"A man’s heart plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps."

Psalm 75:5-7
"Do not lift up your horn on high; Do not speak with a stiff neck.’ ”
For exaltation comes neither from the east Nor from the west nor from the south.
But God is the Judge: He puts down one, And exalts another."

Acts 12:21-23
"So on a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat on his throne and gave an oration to them. 22 And the people kept shouting, “The voice of a god and not of a man!” Then immediately an angel of the Lord died."

Galatians 2:20
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me"

2 Corinthians 5:17
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

Mark 13:11
"But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit."

...But you do not believe these things, for you have given yourself over to the ways of men.

Willie T said:

What is the problem you seem to have in simply letting others read the article for themselves?

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I think everyone should read it and see, if anything therein contradicts what they said about the issue.

I'm not arguing for one side or the other...

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I'm just pointing out that they debunked the claim presented here.